Hi all.

I've been critiquing excerpts from novels and short stories on this forum for a few weeks now, and I've been spotting the same mistakes occurring consistently. Consequently, I have created this thread so that I can explain these errors, which will hopefully stop the mistakes from being so prominent in others' work.

Of course, I encourage anyone else to highlight errors on this thread, too.


1 - Comma splice

A comma splice occurs when two independent (or main) clauses are positioned either side of a comma. This is grammatically illegal as only a coordinating (and, but, or, etc.) or correlative conjunction (both... and...; either... or...; neither... nor... etc.), a semi-colon or a colon can be used to link independent clauses.

He hated her, she liked him. - Comma splice.

He hated her but she liked him. - Coordinating conjunction.

He hated her; she liked him. - Semi-colon.

He hated her, but both she and Susan liked him. - Correlative conjunction.

A colon is used mainly when the second clause explains the first or when the author wishes to intensify the following clause. It often replaces 'because.'

He hated her: she'd always been nasty to him. - Explanation.

He hated her: immensely. - Intensification.

To explain further, independent clauses are clauses that can stand alone and still make sense. They require a subject, a verb and sometimes an object, but the easiest way to tell is to take them out of the text and see if they make sense alone.

Despite the day's darkness, she was in a good mood.

The clause in bold is independent because it makes sense alone; however, the one in normal font is dependent because it doesn't make sense alone.

Please note: American grammar rules state that a comma must preceed a coordinating conjunction if an independent clause follows it.

He hated her, but she liked him. - American.

He hated her but she liked him. - British.


2 - Will versus Shall

I haven't seen this so much on this forum, but it's still something that's often overlooked, I feel.

Will should only be used for the second and third person.

Shall should only be used for the first person.

I will...

I shall...

They shall...

They will...

However, there is an emphatic case for this auxiliary verb, which makes things confusing as the usage is reversed: you shall, for example, is legal in the emphatic case.


3 - Punctuation in sentences initiated by subordinating conjunctions

Subordinating conjunctions (because, although, for, etc.) are conjunctions that link independent and dependent clauses. When the dependent clause is positioned at the beginning of a sentence, a comma needs to go before the independent clause. In the following sentences, the dependent clauses are in bold.

Although we won the award we weren't happy.

Could be rewritten as either...

We weren't happy although we won the award.

Or...

Although we won the award, we weren't happy.

In the first correct example above, you may wish to place a comma before the dependent clause, although this is optional.

This rule also applies for the conditional:

If I had won the award I would have been happy.

If I had won the award, I would have been happy.


I shall be adding more in the near future, hopefully.

Many thanks,

Torpeh.

it's great of you to take the time and trouble to post this info, torpeh, but what you seem to be overlooking [or forgetting] is that in creative writing [unlike english grammar class], rules can be bent or broken, as long as it 'works' for the reader... and they all are/have been... frequently... in many cases, by authors of the most successful and well-lauded, award-winning examples of the writer's art... also, what's 'legal' in the uk isn't necessarily mandatory in the us...

so, my best advice to new writers is to have a solid grounding in the rules 'n regs of your target market's locale and understand why they are rules, but leave yourself free to ignore them, whenever the muse demands prose that won't sound like examples in a 9th grade grammar textbook...

and keep a 'struck & white' [the professional writer's 'bible'] and a good punctuation guide close at hand, for whenever you need to check on the few rules that really do matter...

love and hugs, maia

Thanks for reminding me, Maia. I only created this to summarise a few grammar rules, though; I overlooked the 'licence' aspect for that reason.

And thanks for the input, too. :)

Of course, one can only break the rules of English when one knows what they are.

here's an excellent site for many of the basics:

http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/index.html

This is useful, I will sticky.

Yeah most of those common mistakes is what I do in my exams. But when I'm talking on forums I don't make those silly mistakes, its confusing and fustrating!

As mia said, rules can be bent or broken... however, in my opinion, it's still usually best to follow must of the accepted rules.

it's best to follow the rules till you're a good enough writer to be able to bend or break 'em and get away with it! ;-)

Of course, one can only break the rules of English when one knows what they are.

I totally agree with that statement. Just when I feel it all makes sense another rule gets turned upside down. I have never totally understood the "who" and "whom" rule.

Thanks for this info. I have been reading and writing tech reports and papers for so long that I have a hard time remembering what the rules are.

I've seen some pretty awful tech writing, but on occasion, have also seen very clear and well written tech writing.

I have never totally understood the "who" and "whom" rule.

that's a pretty easy one...

when it's used as the subject of a sentence, it's 'who'... as in:

"Who is going to fail math this term?"

when it's used as the object of a sentence, it's 'whom'... as in:

"Who [which teacher] is going to fail whom [which student]?"

when you'd say 'me' you say 'whom'... and when you'd say 'i' you say 'who'... of course, if you also don't understand the 'i' and 'me' rule, then you really have a problem! ;-)

Isn't there the fact that sometimes a writer makes a deliberate mistake to point out something?

also, I thought the 'Will' and 'Shall' thing was finally settled...'Will' was supposed to have won...

Isn't there the fact that sometimes a writer makes a deliberate mistake to point out something?

called 'literary license'...

also, I thought the 'Will' and 'Shall' thing was finally settled...'Will' was supposed to have won...

"Will" and "shall" have different meanings in contracts, and sometimes those shades of meanings carry over into more common speech.

If someone will do something, he or she intends to do it.

If someone shall do something, he or she is required to do it.

These are a few I have seen more than once, and is by no means an exhaustive listing:

Congradulations: not a word, congratulations is the word.

Proberly: not a word, the correct word is probably

Loose vs. lose: Two different words - loose is either an adjective, the antonym of tight. or a verb meaning to let fly: He drew back the bowstring, ready to loose the arrow at the demon's eye. Lose, on the other hand, is to forfeit possession or fail to win. I often lose sight of my goals

Site vs sight vs cite: A site is a location, such as a website or where an event took place. He was looking for a General Help thread on the site.. Sight is vision, or something visually seen. She laughed at the sight of her brother, dripping gobs of greasy mud. Finally, cite is a verb, meaning to name or to issus a citation: He cited the reference source for the quotation. She was cited for driving while impaired.

I enjoy your will/shall rule. Because my poetic guru told me the exact opposite. Silly gurus. Or Silly Torpeh?

Or does it really matter? :rolleyes:

And thank you, Cogito, for mentioning the congradulations thing ... It kind of peeves, and I've talked to the verdict about it before, but we shan't mention named [torana.]

:D ... Just keep in mind that "proberly." Can be used in your writing if your character has a silly dialect and speaks like that.

No need to point out names - I call these common errors because I've seen them from more than one person. In fact, I've seen all the above from more than one person here on the forums.

And yes, spelling errors that come through as sounding different are fair game in dialog, as are grammatical errors. Just make sure they are intentional. :)

I have never totally understood the "who" and "whom" rule.

That's because it's like most of English: A rule with a whole set of exceptions papered over with idiom. ;)

The formal rule is:

(1) Separate out the "who"-clause from the rest of the sentence, and treat the "who"-clause as if it were a sentence in its own right;

(2) "Who" is for the subject of the sentence, "whom" is for the object.

Here's a quick-and-dirty heuristic. If you could replace the who-whom with "I", "he" or "she", it's a "who." If you could substitute "me", "him" or "her" for the who-whom it's a "whom".

So using the formal rule, all of the sentences in italics below are correct.

Whom do I see?

Formally, "who do I see" is wrong. Because you don't see "he", you see "him".

It is she whom they see.

They see "her". They don't see "she".

I am the one who is wrong.

"I" is the subject of the sentence.

They arrested him whom they blamed.

This is bloody awful, isn't it? You'd never say that in real life. It's correct because "they" is the subject of "blamed", so "whom" is the object.

I am she whom they blame.

Who do they blame? They blame "her". Therefore she is the object, therefore (formally) it's "whom".

The formal rule is so widely-ignored that many "whom" constructions sound counterintuitive and ugly.

There are plenty of other examples where English formal rules sound like crap.

The telephone rang, and Geraldine answered it. "Hi, who's there?"

"It's I, Tom."

Yes, "it's I." "I" is the subject of the sentence. "It's me, Tom" is (in formal English) wrong.

Pity the poor foreigners who have to learn this stupid language!

Here's a quick-and-dirty heuristic. If you could replace the who-whom with "I", "he" or "she", it's a "who." If you could substitute "me", "him" or "her" for the who-whom it's a "whom".
That is great advice, but presupposes that the writer is adept with the use of the usual personal pronouns to begin with.

The most egregious personal pronoun errors I usually see occur when pronouns are combined with nouns and other pronouns with "and" or "or":

Jack and her headed down to the store.

The person who says this would be far less likely to say:

Her headed down to the store.

Likewise you might hear:

It seemed apparent to Sally and I that Willard had lied.

But you would almost never hear:

It seemed apparent to I that Willard had lied.

Fortunately, "who" and "whom" are not usually joined in a compound subject or object by a conjunction.

The quick heuristic for pronouns combined with nouns or other pronouns is to use it in the same sentence alone, not compounded.

I wanted to add a couple more rules of thumb.

You can always misuse "who", "whom" and any other personal pronoun of your choice in dialogue. As a writer your own grammar ought to be pretty good, but your characters' grammar can be terrible.

You can often misuse personal pronouns in first-person prose, particularly when the narrator isn't supposed to be educated.

I suppose Tara and me would've been about fourteen when we quit school. We figured we didn't need much in the way of schooling to be glamour models. And we were right. What we needed was big boobs and a coke habit.

Grammatically borked in several ways, but fictionally correct. (Also guaranteed to give your copyeditor a conniption.)

Chuckle - yes, I usually point that out in reviews, just to make sure the misuse in dialog is intentional.

Thanks for your input - the SPAG forum has been rather underused of late, and it's not because there's nothing that needs to be raised!

We need to standardise the examples in this thread so a reader looking for advice can easily tell which is right and which is wrong.

I suggest the convention of using an asterisk to show which examples are incorrect.

This sentence is a correct example.

* This sentence is a bad example.

I think standardization is a lost cause. But in an individual post, you could also use color:

This sentence is a correct example.

This sentence is a bad example.

My writing teacher told us to Never use the work VERY.
He siad that is was not needed. You can say something is hot. But not very hot.

That's the kind of absolute statement that makes me want to find exceptions. I do agree, in principle. I would agree that superlatives are overused, and there is usually a better word choice.

But at the least, you will now be very aware when you do put the word into your writing!

That is excellent information i don't think i even knew. I am working as a content writer and am posting under my company profile name, and that is information i can DEFNITELY use. Thank You!

what is a 'content' writer?... is that a new-speak way to say 'copywriter' or what?

My writing teacher told us to Never use the work VERY.
He siad that is was not needed. You can say something is hot. But not very hot.

Very; little; pretty; and nice are all adverbs that do nothing to help describe a picture.

Why?

Generally speaking, they are so anemic to be nearly useless. However, I don't agree that they never should be used. They are understated modifiers, which is sometimes exactly what is called for. If nothing else, they alter the rhythm of a sentence.

When she was good, she was very very good. Obviously, very serves an important role in this sentece, which is part of a child's verse.

I'd actually like 'effect' and 'affect' explained as I still can't get my head around them. I've had the difference between the two explained to me before but when I have to use one of them in a sentence I'm still unable to figure out which is the correct one to use.

basically, 'affect' is a verb [except for shrinks, who speak of 'a flat affect' in some patients] and 'effect' is a noun... people/things can 'affect' people/things and the 'effect' is what results...

here's a couple of sentences that should settle it for you:

The noonday sun affected him badly. The effect it had on him was startling.

But don't forget that you can effect a change, which is a verb distinct from when you affect someone's life.

Very interesting!
Also, "He hated her but she liked him. - British" - this rule can be broken, and most Britons choose to use the standard American grammatical structure here as it usually flows better. Of course, this is not a rule in British grammar, it is more of an option.

Torpeh! ^_^ Now I've met two familliar people here. You used to scare me...

Anyway, what is the best way I can build up my grammar knowledge? I plan to become an english teacher since I don't feel that I'll ever become good enough to become a successful writer. The only problem is my grammar is shaky at best and I'm sure I won't be able to keep a job as an english teacher with that problem so is there any specific book you could reccommend I study? ^_^ Plus, as teacher, I can always improve while on the job which will help me write better in my spare time :P

My college required all students to purchase and use The Little, Brown Handbook as a writing reference for all written work. I've found it to be a good grammar, usage, and punctuation reference, although I prefer The Chicago Manual of Style for more detailed information.

A quick, easy method I use for determining who/whom:

If you replaced the word with a male pronoun, would it be "him" or "he"?
If it's "him", you use "whom"--both ending with "m", therefore easy to remember.

Who left this note? (He left this note.)
To whom is the note addressed? (It's addressed to him.)

I don't know if it's 100% foolproof, but since I can't remember complicated rules and exceptions and all of that, it works for me. :)

It won't work if someone has trouble with he vs him:

Him and I are gonna hang out by the Seven Eleven. Whom is hanging out at the Seven Eleven? :eek:

It won't work if someone has trouble with he vs him:

Him and I are gonna hang out by the Seven Eleven. Whom is hanging out at the Seven Eleven? :eek:

Now see, I'd avoid a sentence like that altogether. I'd say: We are gonna hang out by the Seven Eleven. ;)

But for an easy way to remember he/him, aren't you supposed to use whichever one would sound right if you removed "and I"? In this case, it'd be "He and I" because you wouldn't say "Him is gonna hang out . . ." you'd say "He is gonna hang out . . ." Or do I have it backwards?

Never mind I noticed the who and whom, with he and him, was already addressed.