When Is It Okay To Commit Suicide?

[HellOnEarth]

Do you approve or disapprove suicide?

[HellOnEarth]

My 2nd part to this question is: who are the beautiful writers to have commited suicide?

[ItalianStallion]

Well, being pass suicidal myself, I feel that no I dont approve of it. There have been close times for me, but I am glad that I didnt die. It's hard to get other people feeling suicidal get that.

[Domoviye]

When you are suffering from a severe terminal illness with no sure cure, and months or years of agony. Or if you're about to commit some heinous crime against a fellow human being.

Otherwise I can't see the reason behind suicide. Things can usually be overcome, or you can at least try to keep going and die in the attempt. Just killing yourself because you don't think you can go on is fairly cowardly.
And I do have some idea about what I'm talking about.

[HellOnEarth]

I didn't know Jack London commited suicide.

Why? WHY?

Who other famous writer commited suicide?

[ItalianStallion]

lemony snicket

[Sapphire]

Suicide is just plain stupid, or just cutting in general. Why would you want to die? I've known people who cut, and it's all because their home lives are bad or their boyfriends broke up with them, which are two damn stupid reasons.

For the home life thing, just get away from it. When you're 18, you have ever right to leave that house and get away, but before that time, just find friends to hang out with. If you don't have friends, hide in your room and lock the door, and turn the music up. There is absolutely no reason behind suicide at all in my opinion.

I can admit, I've had those thoughts before when I was in junior high and freshman year, but I've never done it. It was just that feeling and thought that I had at the time. Now, I don't want to die, because I know that there are things in my future that will hopefully happen to make it all the more beautiful.

[Frost]

Never.
Suicide is the cowards way out. Period.

[HellOnEarth]

Beautiful People who commited suicide:

Actors
Marilyn Monroe
Freddie Prinze
Jonathan Brandis
Margaux Hemingway

Musicians
Michael Hutchenson (Lead Singer of INXS)
Del Shannon (Singer of "Runaway")
Kurt Cobain
Elliott Smith
Phil Ochs
Nick Drake
Frankie Lymon

Writers
John Kennedy Toole
Jack London
Ernest Hemingway
Sylvia Plath
Virginia Woolf
Hunter S Thompson

Others
Adolf Hitler
Bud Dwyer(The Politician That Shot Himself On Live TV)
Sigmend Freud
Meriwether Lewis
Brutus
Cleopatra
Nero
Spalding Gray
Hannibal (The General)
Vincent Van Gogh
Frida Kahlo

[Ferret]

Hitler...beautiful? Suicide probably takes more guts than living, after all, how many of you could slit your own wrist? I know I couldn't do it. I've had my struggles with depression...I managed to muddle through, it wasn't all that hard. Life was difficult, but there was always something that lit up my day...I would assume that other people have the same things happen to them.

[Nexus]

Suicide is not right. In the end its your own decision but its NEVER EVER riight.

[HellOnEarth]

How about if you have chronic pain like bone cancer, blood cancer, or become a vegetable state like Terry Schiavo.

[Frost]

Let's just say your living in terrible poverty. No clean water.
No food.
No shelter.
No education.
Nothing to help you when your sick.

Before this life of poverty, you were wealthy, loaded to the brim.

Would you still not be able to slit your own wrist? I highly doubt it. I could go cut my wrist right now, if I wanted to. But I dont. Because suicide is for cowards and quitters.

And that's all there is to it.

[Myst]

Personal Opinion

Even if you are in a vegetable state, suicide would not be fair. You may wish to die, but your death will affect the others around you as well. It's not just about your problems.

In the able person's case, if you are not dying already from some dramatic disease or horribly suffering in poverty, fallen on the streets, I think suicide is a complete load. Seriously. Like high school kids who want to kill themselves because of failed relationships? They will be pitiful, but also pathetic. Death is a complete dead end. Why go there? Continue on the road of life, not matter how rough it may be, and at least there's a point to reach, a destination.

Life isn't completely tailored for you. Those who are happy are happy because they conquered their problems, not resorted to a cold and unjustified departure when they met difficulty.

[dame_amie]

i don't want to commit suicide... i don't want to die ugly..Lolzz

[Frost]

Nice impersonation.

"WHY IS SHE SO BEAUTIFUL? WHY AM I SO UGLY!!??"

*rippy rip stab slice*

[Robert]

It's always okay to commit suicide, it doesn't require anybody's approval. Nobody owns us.

Cheers,
Rob

[HeinleinFan]

Looking at it from a different perspective, and stretching the definition of suicide to mean more broad forms of causing one's death . . .

If you martyr yourself, that's okay if the opposition is evil. I don't mean suicide bombers (may they rot in hell inshallah) - I mean, if you were to come to my secondary school and try shooting people, I would have no problem with risking my life to end yours.

Likewise, if you are terribly old or at the end of a terminal illness, then I would not disagree with your decision.

In most other cases . . . why would you? Technically, a person can start over; you could take your identification cards or papers, including birth certificate, and your savings, and leave. This is harder, perhaps infinitely so, and it is more complicated, but it can be done.

[Frost]

If you martyr yourself, that's okay if the opposition is evil. I don't mean suicide bombers (may they rot in hell inshallah)

It's only us that think's that they're evil. To them, we are the ones that are evil. And, so what is evil and good? God knows, because it's all perspective. Theres nothing definite about it. Whats good to you, might be evil to someone else, and vice versa.

[Domoviye]

Frost Good and Evil may be questionable, but I still say put a bullet in the head of every suicide bomber that specifically targets civilian markets, restaurants, and night clubs.

[Myst]

You wouldn't think suicide bombers just want to die. They probably have to have suffered to have the will to even blow themselves up. Either that, or they're deluded. But when it come down to it, everybody is acting on their their perception of "right", and so the line between good and evil can't be exactly drawn. The infuriating and damned truth is that many innocents tend to be involved, and nobody likes that.

[HellOnEarth]

LAUSANNE, Switzerland - A ruling by Switzerland's highest court released Friday has opened up the possibility that people with serious mental illnesses could be helped by doctors to take their own lives.

Switzerland already allows physician-assisted suicide for terminally ill patients under certain circumstances. The Federal Tribunal's decision puts mental illnesses on the same level as physical ones.

"It must be recognized that an incurable, permanent, serious mental disorder can cause similar suffering as a physical (disorder), making life appear unbearable to the patient in the long term," the ruling said.

"If the death wish is based on an autonomous decision which takes all circumstances into account, then a mentally ill person can be prescribed sodium-pentobarbital and thereby assisted in suicide," it added.

Various organizations exist in Switzerland to help people who want to commit suicide, and assisting someone to die is not punishable under Swiss law as long as there is no "selfish motivation" for doing so.

The judges made clear in their ruling that certain conditions would have to be met before a mentally ill person's request for suicide assistance could be considered justified.

"A distinction has to be made between a death wish which is an expression of a curable, psychiatric disorder and which requires treatment, and (a death wish) which is based on a person of sound judgment's own well-considered and permanent decision, which must be respected," they said.

The case was brought by a 53-year old man with serious bipolar affective disorder who asked the tribunal to allow him to acquire a lethal dose of pentobarbital without a doctor's prescription.

The tribunal ruled against his request, confirming the need for a thorough medical assessment of the patient's condition.

Whether any Swiss physician would be prepared to prescribe a lethal dose of pentobarbital to a mentally ill person remains unclear. The country's national ethics commission could not be reached for comment late on Friday.

Switzerland is one of a number of countries in Europe that allow assistance to terminally ill people who wish to die.

Netherlands legalized euthanasia in 2001 and Belgium in 2002, while Britain and France allow terminally ill people to refuse treatment in favor of death.

Yeah.

[Wilderbeast]

I beleive if you want to die it's what you should do. You shouldn't go on griping about how much you hate life. One thing you should do before, though, is look around and ask yourself why. Wait three months, if you still feel like dying, go ahead.

Hunter S. Thompson. Shotgun to the head.

[HellOnEarth]

Beautiful.

[Hellbent]

Sigmend Freud did the suicide thing, huhn? I never knew that.

[SeaBreeze]

I have thought about suicide. I have wanted to commit suicide so I can understand why people would want to do it. And yes, it is a selfish thing. But why should it be about other people? Sure, it would cause pain for others but when you are in that state where you see no way out, no clear path ahead, then be selfish. I'm not for suicide but I understand why people do it. Could you be raped by hundreds of people and go about your life like Rebbecca from sunnybrook farm? Probably not.
And as for having terminal illness, then I agree. If you are in physical pain, then I believe that person should be free to make a choice to live or die. And anyway, forcing someone to live in physical pain is a form of torture, is it not?
And as for councillers, I'm sure they do a brilliant job but remember when teachers and such say that you can go to your doctor to talk about anything? I tried this because I didn't know how to contact a counciller and the doctor basically complained that I was takin up more time then what I had booked while I was sitting there bawling my eyes out. What an inconsiderate bastard. But I'm sure that there are good doctors to talk to. And friends. The problem with talking to your friends and family about your problems/depression is that after the third time, they don't seem to care as much and you probably have to pay them to listen intently. But hey, if you do suffer depression or such thing, try talking to someone, even if it's a counciller or doctor. Try and hold on.

Oh and I don't know any famous writer that has commited suicide. :(

(The above views are my opinion only.)

[HellOnEarth]

Couciller?

You mean counselor, no?

[Lily]

Hitler...beautiful? Suicide probably takes more guts than living, after all, how many of you could slit your own wrist? I know I couldn't do it. I've had my struggles with depression...I managed to muddle through, it wasn't all that hard. Life was difficult, but there was always something that lit up my day...I would assume that other people have the same things happen to them.

Slitting your wrists isn't as hard as you'd think, and it's not very effective - just dramatic. The real way to end it is to shoot yourself in the naggon. I'm not trying to give people advice here or anything - I'm just saying, it doesn't take as much guts as you'd think to pop a few pills and give up. It takes a lot more guts to be willing to live through your challenges, to face consequences, and to pull yourself through trials. There have been a few times in my life where I've contemplated suicide, I deal with depression at times as well..it's awful to try and find hope when your whole life seems dark -but I'm so glad I hold on, because I realize later on that those trials only made me a stronger and better person, they taught me compassion and understanding.

[SeaBreeze]

Couciller?

You mean counselor, no?

Yeah yeah, I know! :p I suck at spelling. :D

[wordwizard]

commiting suicide is ugly and selfish. I dont agree with it at all.

[HellOnEarth]

I just heard Anna Nicole Smith commited suicide. Good for her. That woman deserved to die.

[Robert]

I'm sure there are people more deserving.

[Robert]

commiting suicide is ugly and selfish. I dont agree with it at all.
What could be more selfish than insisting that people don't have a right to chose death if they so desire? Who has the right to force us to carry on living against our wishes?

In practice, of course, many of those who kill themselves are clinically depressed or otherwise mentally unbalanced, and not acting out of some perceived selfishness.

Cheers,
Rob

[wordwizard]

I still think its selfish and ugly. Depression doesnt take away your ability to reason. I think its sooo selfish because they only think about themsleves and obviously dont care about anybody but themselves. Now if they are mentally unbalanced it is a different story all together because they do not have the ability to reason. I am not saying that people dont have the right to kill themselves but how can you deny that they are selfish in doing so? I believe what they are doing is degrading themselves and saying im not worth living. What a ugly way to portray yourself.

Just my opinion though. I couldnt imagine having anyone I loved kill themselves and me be ok with it. I would be pissed off becasue they took a cowards way out.
no offense meant to anyone. Just being truthful in what I believe.

[Robert]

Depression doesnt take away your ability to reason.
Trust me, people who commit suicide while suffering from clinical depression are not capable of the reasoning you and I can manage right now.

Cheers,
Rob

[wordwizard]

I am not so sure of that because there are many who try to commit suicide end up regretting it and trying to save themselves. I think there is reasoning behind that. Deciding to get help is reasoning. If someones is clinically depressed it doesnt mean that they are mentally unstable. However that is just a thought. No real facts behind it considering I have never been in that situation. So I cannot say from experience.

[E-bow]

Well having spent so many moments where I just didn't feel like existing, I've thought about this a lot. Many people don't understand why anyone would want to commit suicide as they haven't. Well for me and anyone else who's experienced this, in depression you do lose your ability to reason. The fact is that you're beyond caring, every moment is suffering. You don't even think about missing you, and even if they do the strain of taking another breath of pain and torment is too much to bear. If someone gave you a reason to live, e.g. your kids or other responsibilities, you may continue to live and put on a happy smile, but this isn't enough to keep someone.

You feel lost, like the world belongs to everyone else and you're just a thorn in their side. You don't feel any love. Your mind tortures you constantly, you can't turn off that internal voice which belittles you, ridicules and doesn't stop feeding you negative thoughts. Beating you hour after hour, day after night, never leaving your side. You go mad, literally. It is at this stage where you lose the natural desire to want to live. You become hollow, a walking bag of flesh.

You don't even tell people your problems, not wanting to be known as the broken figure although it shows anyhow. Plus they wouldn't understand, nothing would make sense. You just have to find the answer yourself.
Ofcourse many suicidal people continue living, not because they want to, they just live because they were born, simple as that. The richness and fullness of life has left them. It is just seen as a trial.

People here have said its a cowards way out. Well, if living in pain of such magnitude that you are capable of understanding is brave, then call me a coward anytime.
You see at this point you don't even care what other people think of you, you won't be here to listen to their insults and judgements. You feel you shall be free.

I'd never kill myself, simply because I'm too much of a coward. Plus do you know how hard it is to kill yourself? Also i'm working through my problems, slowly. I don't really want to kill myself, i'm just not all that fussed about living. But honestly, judging or condemning doesn't help at all. The only cure is love and understanding. Thankyou for reading.

[wordwizard]

I am sorry that you are going through these types of problems E-bow. Hopefully you can work through them enough to the point where you feel happy again. I just think that life is a gift, and to throw it away is just awful. However, as much as you try to explain it to ..it just doesnt click in my head. It has never happened to me therefore like i said before i cant relate and tell it how it really is. Me saying it is the cowards way out... I guess is a little harsh-but its how i feel.I just think that some people feel to scared to deal with their emotions so they end it. I still think there is enough reasoning in people before they choose to end their life, but just choose not to use the reasoning. I guess what I am saying is that I cant comprehend it otherwise. I may be sooo incredibly wrong, and making a complete butt of myself...but i cant help but feel this way. Again. I really hope you are taking the steps necessary to better your life in a positive way. Good luck in your lifes journey.

[E-bow]

Well what more can I say? The Encarta World English Dictionary defines the 'coward' as "somebody regarded as fearful and uncourageous". I guess then the people who continue living must be loving and courageous, because in
this world of polaritys you're either one or the other. And if you full of love then why do you hurt so much?

You see the point is people who contemplate suicide aren't too scared to confront their problems, they may not even know what their problem is. They might think that they are, as a person a problem. They don't believe in any solution, not for them anyway, which is why they choose to leave.

This isn't about morals or right or wrong, its just about serious pain which haunts you throughout your days, which you try to anyway you know how. Many 'normal' people experience this unconscious pain on a smaller scale. You don't believe me?

Why is it that men(yes I also mean female) insist on drinking, using any excuse possible? This lower your state of consciousness, why would any sane being do this? They are desperately trying to feel good, meaning that they are currently feeling bad, even with smiles on their faces before taking that first sip, there is an undercurrent of unease. It is the same reason why men sit on their couches mindlessly flicking through the channels for hours on end, not even concentrating on what they're watching. Prolonged hours infront of the set also lowers your state of consciousness. There are many other methods for lowering your consciousness, but the same principle applies. They are all trying to escape something, what is it? No, it is not life per se. But rather pain. Suffering.

Fraud even wrote a whole book based on the unnatural suffering which follows humans around unconsciously for most their lives. And they seem unaware. It has been going on for centuries, and is considered normal. Worse yet it is denied that it exists.

Now getting back on topic, anyone sane person who has experienced great suffering has contemplated suicide. When the undercurrent of pain becomes your prominant state, then it hurts, and makes you commit wild acts. It takes you over, and you literally do lose control of yourself and your emotions. Some women may understand this when they go through their menstral cycle. Have you ever read an article or seen an interview of a seemingly ordinary person who commits a hurrendous crime such as murdering his own family? Often he will tell you that he didn't know what came over him. No one in society accepts this. It feels like you're possessed by something, something evil. It can't be you, but you turn to the mirror, then gaze around the room and see you're the only person present.

It is also the fault of society, which makes the person believe that this pain is them. That the pain they suffer is themselves, and what person in their right mind can ever live peacefully knowing themselves as pain?

It is this, I believe which people try to escape. There is nothing else. Life can only be a gift if you allow it to be, yet some people are so over come by their emotions that they can't see straight. Like an anorexic girl who views herself in the mirror and see's something overweight. When I said they lose their ability to reason, I meant on the emotional scale, of course they can reason logically, yet it is not logical to live or die. It just is. Therefore you can't fight emotion with logic, its just not comprehendable.

They have already made the choice to end their lives way before they commit the act. Didn't you notice that hollow body stray past you? They act like they're already invisible, even in smiling. Yet because most people aren't emotionally aware, they fail to see past the outer shell.

It has even become a social stigma to openly speak of suicide, in a genuine concerning way. People are too ready to judge, and throw out words such as 'coward'. I am not writing this to get you to agree with suicide, I'm writing this so you can understand. I understand why some people rape and kill, it doesn't mean I agree with it. Yet with understanding comes love, and the true power to heal and make a lasting difference in someones life.

[CroZ]

when nobody cares about you

[wordwizard]

You may understand e bow why people rape and murder but i dont. Maybe becasue they are sick. If you are saying that suicidal people are mentally sick like that then yes i agree-they do not have any reasonability to it. Suicide, i believe is a different matter though. You may be right in the fact that I am to judgemental about people who are suicidal. I just think the actions they take are ridiculous. you say that people have to allow life to be a gift. But i think the gift is just a given.maybe im just in some crazy happy bubble but i think that the gift should not be wasted and thrown away to soon. If the sufering is that bad then get help. They have that choice! but they choose to die. Ending evrything they ever had. I know you have taken offense to the whole coward thing since you have mentioned it everytime you reply and i am sorry you feel that way, but its just the way i view it. your definition told right. fearful of confronting their emotions, and uncourageous to live on and do something about their lives. I am not saying that people who do live are loving, but it does take courage to plow through the everyday. I also think it is logical to live or die. I get it. people feel suicide because of their emotions, i just dont understand how that emotion blinds them. I will never get how emotion blinds a murderer, or how the want of something makes you see things that arent true-yet it does happen. I think in some suicidal people that there is something mentally wrong with them. But i also think that there is some people who are just overdramamtic and too caught up in their own lives to look around at the positive side of things. now before you get bent out of shape over that I just want to remind you that i said "some people" I am not putting all suicidal people into two groups. Again... i hope tehre is no offense taken when you all read this. I am not meaning to hurt people in anyway, but how much of a "coward" would i be if i just conformed to what people wanted me to think? I would be a hypocrit. Thanks for reading

[E-bow]

I didn't say I know why all murderers and rapists do what they do. There are endless reasons for people do or don't do things. All of that is irrelevant. Whatmatters is what you do. You see you look for reasons to feel good about life, I suppose there are many. Yet as many as there are good you shall find bad, and some people become trapped in the cycle of looking for the bad in everything that life presents.

Of course people who try to commit suicide are mentally sick, no more than the people who continue to live their lives suffering, or hoping for salvation in some distant future. Like I explained in my last post, which Freud wrote about, the majority of humans beings which are considered normal actually have a mental disease, suicide is simply one of the affects of this disease. Alchohol, drugs, tv, sometimes sex and other things are also the affects of this mental illness. But again what does this matter? You can study through the depths of the mind to understand insanity, yet understanding insanity does not bring about sanity.

You said the gift of life is a given. Well life is given, but you will only experience it as a gift if you allow it. Otherwise life will seem like a burden, like so many shiny happy people experience. Bills, relationship troubles, loss of any kind etc. Oh yes many people continue living, smile and tell you life is great, yet spend the majority of their time experiencing life as a burden. Then they will say you are wrong to opt out of the game, if they can put up with their PROBLEMS then why can't you?

For you see, as long as people have problems, they will continue to experience the majority of life as a burden, getting brief intervals of happiness. I have to tell you, you are in some 'crazy bubble'. Not in a harsh way, a bubble as in your vision is obscured. You are unaware of what is all around you. Don't you see those miserable people walking down the street? That agitated businessman, that stressed out mother. Can you hear that guy on the bus yelling down his problems on his phone? The truth is the majority of humans experience life as a burden, they may just be more prone to the happy scale of things. Others the sad scale. Whatever side you're on, you must alternate at some point, no matter for however long the cycle takes. Whether it be weeks, days or years of mostly happiness or sadness.

You say suicidal people are fearful of confronting their emotions, yet there emotions are fear! Fear/emotion same thing. This is what they are experiencing right now. It could be split into sub categories such as anger, regret, depression etc but they all fall under the same polarity in differing degrees. This is what is so difficult about confronting these emotions, which people don't understand, going through that brick wall of pain. Its not easy, and if you are to be successful you've got to keep your concentration in feeling the pain.

Its funny how you used the word 'plow'. As in struggling from day to day. It takes courage, almost as if you deserve a medal for taking on this beast of a thing we call life. But yet its all roses and sunflowers. Did you just reveal an unconscious belief in yourself? You answer that.

It is not logical to live or die. The desire to survive is natural, but it is not logical to live or die. Tell me the logic of dance? You live when you live, and die when you die, there is no logic or mind filtered equation behind this. Your body doesn't question its time, only the mind does. Ironically this powerful tool finds no answers, only more questions. It is so simple. You can't ask "how do I get to life"? Life is. You are life. Existence-Life, same thing. Your family, car and job are just things in your life, which is what you were referring to. Yet life is the box that holds these things in place. It is not logical or illogical to exist. You simply do. It can't be elaborated upon.

Would you say that a crazy person who jumped off a roof thinking he could fly had completely control over his actions? That he knew what he was doing and knew the consequences? Was it wrong of him to jump, knowing himself as super man? Knowing that he could fly was it illogical to get out that window? He was in no place to make a sound judgement or reason.

You can't understand how an emotion blinds a person using your mind. Emotion is the bodys reaction towards your mind. I know there have been times in your life when you've been blinded by emotion, its happened to us all, although at differing degrees. Yet maybe because you were so caught up in the emotion you didn't realise you were blinded, and there was no one to tell you this, so you treated that memory as if you had full control of your mind and body. If you can't understand this then it is true you have been blind for a very long time. This is called denial.

P.S. don't worry I'm not taking anything personally, I just like to state my points clearly and churn out any thought which I find relevant. And about the hypocrite thing, like I said before, If you re-read my previous post you'd see that I said understanding doesn't mean agreement.

~E-bow

[poetryliberates]

suicide is nothing but a selfish, and gutless way out of life

[Frost]

Lol at above comment after all the discussion going on.

[Myst]

Lol at the above comment, just because.

[Robert]

suicide is nothing but a selfish, and gutless way out of life
<panto mode on>

Oh, no it isn't!

<panto mode off>

[wordwizard]

what i meant by plow is that sure there are burdens and obstacles in the everyday, but get over it.(easy for me to say i suppose) LEtting it build up on you is just going to mes up your chances of having a happier life.All of this just seems so simple for me, me saying i get why people find this so hard isnt going to happen. It seems like our convo is getting redundant-so many things we have said is jsut being repeated in different ways. I already told you my beliefs, they arent going to change no matter how we rephrase our replies. I know some people are mentally or emotionally messed up, but thats not everyone. Let me also rephrase the whole " i have never been blinded by emotion" statement...I have never been blinded by the kind of emotion that would ever lead me to taking my, or another humans life". I have never been suicidal or close to it. plus for me agreement does mean understanding. just goes hand in hand for me. I understand some of your points and agree with them, but overall my opinion still stay the same. I still think suicide is ugly....very ugly.....and unfortunatly all of this talk has not disuaded me from thinking its cowardly as well. I feel like our convo is not going anywhere, but it is interesting to discuss something so contravercial.

[E-bow]

OK I won't go on. I just want to make the point once again which you overlook, this is not about changing your views, this was not my intention when I responded or ever will be. Your views will change of their own accord. It was about understanding. I didn't say it wasn't cowardly, I simply made the point that the world is full of cowards anyway, this is just the final cowards act. And phychologists who need to understand the minds of killers to solve a mystery, you wouldn't say they were in agreement with the mystery. And oh, some obstacles build up, and some just repeat themselves again and again in your life in different ways. Therefore you may end up piecing your life together and seeing it as one big obstacle.

OK I'll stop...unless you reply. Interesting conversation.

[wordwizard]

I think this convo was great. I like hearing other peoples views. I definetly agree with your coward theory now. We have finally narrowed it down to the liking of both parties haha. I remember you saying that you did not want to change my views, but I wanted to reinstate the fact that im not really changed even though you made some great points. I personally hope i never have to deal with somebodys suicide i know, because im not sure how forgiving I could be. I understand that they are fianlly done suffering like people say..... but I just hate how it would affect me. I guess that makes me selfish as well. hah. wow This is going in circles.
Good to learn new things baout yourself you didnt know eh

[Analog Worms]

I'm suicidal. I took a drug overdose in July 2006. Spent 24 hours in the hospital. :(

It hard to explain to someone when you feel like there is no hope in the world.

[Analog Worms]

suicide is nothing but a selfish, and gutless way out of life

I guess I've always been a bit of a selfish S.O.B

I'm also a coward.

I can't wait to blow my brains out.

[E-bow]

Sorry its hard to take you seriously with that weird avatar. I've pretty much emtied my barrel on WordWizard but if there's anything you'd like to discuss don't be afraid, or if its private gimme a PM. That always makes me feel special. I would do a smiley face but the ones here aren't funny.

[wordwizard]

You cant be a hater about how I feel on the subject. It is just how I feel. I cant help that-just like you cant help but feel the way You feel. Even though stuff like this doesnt make sense to me-I do sympathize with the fact that you feel you life is crappy enough to end. I hope you get some help and make it through the tough times. P.s. Yes e bow you totally emtied the barrel on me but it was all in interesting discussion type of way. Hopefully I have gotten some clear points across.....it was all a big whirl wind haha

[Spherical Time]

Today I found out that a friend of mine on another board, Stiletto One (also known as Stiletto Null) committed suicide.

I'm going to miss you, Stiletto.

[Robert]

Sorry to hear that, ST.

Cheers,
Rob

[Myst]

That always makes me feel special.

Lol, I think you stole one of my lines.



Today I found out that a friend of mine on another board, Stiletto One (also known as Stiletto Null) committed suicide.

I'm going to miss you, Stiletto.


Sorry to hear that. My condolences.

[poetryliberates]

Also sorry to hear that. i know the feeling it has happened to me once.

my condolences

PL

[forgotenmemory]

Sigmend Freud commited suicide?! NOO!

[Leaka]

I don't think that you should ever commit suicide.
And that there isn't a proper time to commit suicide.
You should always talk to someone about how you feel. Because you are suppose to love yourself. And you should never let anyone tell you how to live or die.
If you are to wrapped up in what other people think and commit suicide I just think its plain stupid.
The only person who should choose about your life and what you are suppose to die is you.
Suicide is taking the cowards way out.
No offense to anyone when I said this. I wasn't flaming or I hope I wasn't.

[Lemex]

Edger Allen Poe killed himself after years of chronic depression and maddness.
This, I can fully understand.

For me, it is up to the person in question to make the desision his/her self.

[Cogito]

Suicide is the ultimate act of cowardice and manipulation.

The suicidal person abrogates all responsibility and leaves pain and guilt for everyone else to clean up.

Particularly when it follows one or more murders, it's the quintessential "F*** you".

[RomanticRose]

sure there are burdens and obstacles in the everyday, but get over it.

After reading this entire thread (I know, I need a life), this is the only thing that cries out for me to respond to.

What you don't seem to understand is that Clinical Depression is NOT a reaction to "burdens and obstacles in the everyday." Clinical Depression is a result of a chemical imbalance in the brain that is beyond the control of the sufferer.

To just say "get over it," is like telling a person with diabetes, or high blood pressure, or arthritis to get over it. Clinical Depression is a physical condition that just happens to have psychological symptoms.

Most people with clinical depression (or other mental illnesses), would love more than anything to get over it or "snap out of it" as they are often advised to do. If they could, they would.

Sorry for the ramble/mini-rant. *stepping off the soapbox.*

[Cogito]

Not always true. Clinical depression may be from a genetically based chemical imbalance, som get there through drug use, and still others adopt the symptoms to withdraw from their responsibilities.

I was married to one of the latter. Her recovery was miraculous when she was motivated to stand on her own.

I don't doubt that very many of the clinically depressed have a true neurotransmitter disorder. But it is easier to fake than you might suppose.

Depression in response to the burdens and obstacles of the everyday is called Situational Depression. When the stresses are mitigated, the depression lifts in a reasonably short period after.

[RomanticRose]

Hence the reason I specified Clinical Depression in my post. Another name for Situational Depression is Reactive Depression.

[PrincessGarnet]

Personal Opinion

Even if you are in a vegetable state, suicide would not be fair. You may wish to die, but your death will affect the others around you as well. It's not just about your problems.
.

I totally disagree with this! I would hate for someone to live in suffering for my sake, or have someone become so dependant on me that they would want me to suffer just so i could technically be alive.

[ValianceInEnd]

Suicide is a lame way out. You can find ways to get help and figure things out so you don't die naturally. The only time I can see coceivably commiting suicide is if you're about to be devoured by a horde of blood thirsty zombies. :p

[ILTBY]

I disagree with a lot of what's being/been said.

Suicide isn't a selfish act. If you're actually willing to take your own life, you are not thinking about other people and you definitely aren't thinking in a 'normal' frame of mind. If you are that miserable and feel that useless, often suicide seems like the best option, not only for yourself, but for those around you. The majority of people who commit suicide or are suicidal were/are not thinking about the selfishness or manipulation of the act.

Again, if you get to the point where you feel like suicide is the only option for you, you are not in a stable frame of mind and you are not going to be thinking about the effect of it on those around you.

More often than not people who are willing to commit suicide feel as though it would be a relief, not only for them, but for their family and friends. If you are depressed enough, it's easy to feel like an absolute waste of space to everyone around you.

[wordwizard]

wow this is a old thread. I was thinking...hmm I am not going to get into this again (thinking that this thread was new)...and then I kept reading and..WHAM there is my posts...many many posts.....

[mammamaia]

When Is It Okay To Commit Suicide?

...any time a mentally-responsible adult wants to...


Do you approve or disapprove suicide?

...it's not my right or anyone's right to approve or disapprove of what others want to do in re ending their lives... we should all have the freedom to do what we want with our own bodies, as long as it doesn't harm another... and by 'harm' i don't mean 'emotionally'...

[Sir Ender]

It is never okay to commit suicide.

You have a life, live it to its best. Even if you're terminally ill, make the best out of it that you can.

[lessa]

Speaking as a person left I would be against it. I would feel guilty the rest of my life thinking of ways I could have helped the person overcome the reason they took their life.

Speaking as a person acting on the thought. If I was at a stage where someone had to feed me, change my diapers, wash me and watch me deteriorate to such an extent as it was painful for them. I would be for it.

But committing suicide because my one true love loves another heighth of stupidity.
I need that one last fix to get me through the day. I don't think so.
My parents want me in at 10 and that is just such a low blow to my esteem. grow up.

there are so many stupid reasons to end it all.
there are not nearly so many good reasons.

If you don't like life change it. Make it something you do like.

[CharlieTheUnicorn13]

Exactly what lessa said. I totally agree. But, there are a few situations where I could understand why a person would go suicidal--some of which would only happen in books, lol! If the person was suffering horribly, I could understand why they would want to die. A lot of people on chemo say they want to commit suicide, because it isn't worth living through all the pain. I can understand that.

[Odinschild]

In the end, its all down to the person. But think about what you're leaving behind. Think about the people that love you, even if you think they don't. I tried to commit suicide about six years ago, right before High School. I realized, about a year after, that it was one of the stupidest things I could've ever done. Just recently, my friend tried to take her own life. I felt completely betrayed that she never tried to get in contact with me to help her through it.

I'm not going to say that its never right to commit suicide. I just say that you should put some really serious thought into your decision.

[SeaBreeze]

I understand reasoning behind suicide. I've fully wanted to take that knife and slice it across my wrists. I've urged for death numerous times when I have been extremely low. I have just been lucky to battle my way past it and to have the wonderful support of my boyfriend.

And Suicide is a selfish thing. And yes, horrid for those left behind, I understand that. But maybe those that have taken their own lives got sick of worrying about everyone else and decided something for them.

I mean, bloody hell, I wanted to do myself in- hundreds of times. And what stopped me? Not family or friends, the fact that I am gutless and there is always something around the corner. The anticpation of change.

So I don't think Suicide is necessarily weak. I think it's a bloody strong decission to make.

[CharlieTheUnicorn13]

I'm young, so I haven't really been--depressed. Although one time I did take out a sharp metal thingy and pushed it into my finger, just to see what it would feel like. It hurt. It was very thin, like a needle, not like a knife. But yeah. That's the closest I've ever gotten.

[SeaBreeze]

Ouch.


Oh and BTW: If my friends/family were talking about commiting suicide, then I would help them as much as I can. Do what I can for ANYONE really if they were feeling this depressed, so I don't advocate it, but I UNDERSTAND the decision.

[Sir Ender]

I know what being depressed can be like. Even after going through bipolar depression and all, suicide wasn't my way out.
I agree that it's someone's personal choice, but there is always an alternative, even if you can't see it at the time being.

[Leaka]

And I've been through the same depressing pain. When I was really sick. I thought that I was going to be sick and what a waste it would be to live if I was to never know what had afflicted me.
I wanted to die back then so much.
But I'm okay now.
Old cheery me.
I think we all experience a time in our lives when we want to die.

[CharlieTheUnicorn13]

Yeah. Mine will probably come when I'm old and I can't even eat breakfast without help.

[Eoz Eanj]

People who are seriously suicidal are incapable of thinking 'logically'; to an extent whereby their brain chemistry is so ****ed up, that they can just end their life without a second thought, without even realising what it is they're doing. Does this make them responsible for their actions? No, because their capacity to conduct themselves normally, within the realm of rational and logical thought, is hindered.

[CharlieTheUnicorn13]

People who are seriously suicidal are incapable of thinking 'logically'; to an extent whereby their brain chemistry is so ****ed up, that they can just end their life without a second thought, without even realising what it is they're doing. Does this make them responsible for their actions? No, because their capacity to conduct themselves normally, within the realm of rational and logical thought, is hindered.

In other words, the people who commit suicide are usually mentally ill, right?

[Edgewise]

When surrounded by the zombie horde, having been bitten, and with one bullet left in the chamber.

[Eoz Eanj]

In other words, the people who commit suicide are usually mentally ill, right?

I can't just conclude that whoever commits suicide is mentally ill, no, because there's a wide range of causes. The cause I was/am referring to, is that of chemical imbalances, as that is the cause I am most familiar with contextually.

[Heather Louise]

Do you approve or disapprove suicide? I neither approve or diaaprove it. I think that if an individual does not feel strong enough to cope woth life that they would rather kill themselves, then that is their choice. It is a life lost and a shame really but it remains their choice. It really is a shame though that people will not seek help when it is needed.

However, I know first hand it is not that simple to ask for help when you really need it. You keep burshing it off until the problem becomes too serious to ignore. But by the time it has got to that point, it is often too late. I don't know.

[SeaBreeze]

Yup. You are very right there Heather.

[Baywriter]

It's never okay. It's selfish. I believe that it's the most selfish thing a person can ever do.

[Cogito]

I'm with you 100&#37; on that Baywriter.

[CharlieTheUnicorn13]

I'm sort of with you and sort of not. If someone is suffering horribly, I think death should be an option (like, if they have some awful disease.) Of course, they shouldn't be the ones to kill themselves. Suicide is against my religious beliefs. Is it suicide to allow yourself to die?

[Eoz Eanj]

Whether attempting or actually committing suicide is selfish or not is irrelevant. People need to know that they're not alone and that they can get help; that suicide is not their only option. Everyone needs to unite and support one another so that the situation can be understood and relieved.

[Leaka]

Whether attempting or actually committing suicide is selfish or not is irrelevant. People need to know that they're not alone and that they can get help; that suicide is not their only option. Everyone needs to unite and support one another so that the situation can be understood and relieved.
Quoted for agreement.
I agree with Eoz.

[diziet]

When surrounded by the zombie horde, having been bitten, and with one bullet left in the chamber.

i totally agree with this ;)


suicide is not, as the song suggests, painless. even though the pain may be over for the person commiting suicide the pain goes on and on for those left behind who cared for that person. its an incredibly selfish thing to do but it is entirely an individual's choice.

[Heather Louise]

It's never okay. It's selfish. I believe that it's the most selfish thing a person can ever do. yea, thats the way to look at it. A person feels so bad about themselves and life etc that they would rather kill themselves. Yea, they are being selfish, thats a good thing to tell them. They need your support and help if you want them to pull through this. Someone who feels this bad probably has some sort of mental illness that needs treating and ok, it might be the "cowards" way out, but what if it is the only way they see because of the people like you would shun then for even thinking about suicide?

I am not aiming this at you btw, BayWriter, I just used your quote as an example of what people on your side of the fence generally say.

[Raven]

There are many things none of us take into account when someone feels so low they consider ending their lifes.

Thankfully I have never gone down that path. But we mustn't judge those that do.

If a friend is so low and usually lonely with it I think its up to us to help them after all if we are their friends its our duty.

Of course there are many reasons why someone would choose that path and sadly sometimes go through with it.

Condemning them is proberly the worst thing we can do considering we proberly don't understand.

[Torana]

My mother has a terminal illness. Her body is very slowly shutting down on her. She finds it hard to breathe, has chest pain all the time, randomly blacks out at any given time. She is always sufferring day in day out and it is pitiful to watch.

As time goes on she gets worse and worse. Eventually she will be on oxygen 24/7 and needing 24 hour care...the thought kills me. She is going to be on that many machines and wires and tubes to keep her alive and in knowing this she has opted to never be resusitated. It hurts but I accept that and wouldnt want her to suffer more than she should have to.

I know how hard it is going to get for her. It is going to be hell for her, she will be in so much agony every second of her life and to be honest I think that she should have the choice to free herself from the slow agonising death once she is at the point where she can't do a thing except lay in a bed with mchines keeping her going. It isn't fair and she doesn't want it either.

I know it sounds cruel and I shouldn't wish that for my mother, but I'd rather her not die slowly in a hospital bed sufferring being miserable for the remainder of her days. She was a very active lady and still is. It will seatroy her to be stuck in a bed living on machines!

[Lemex]

I have been close to suicide before, and I wouldn't consider myself selfish. I would advise people who are so quick to judge it as selfish to not be so brash and to conisder it from another angle.

Though now I wouldn't do it. There have been times in the past when it was a real option. And also, there are times when a person is so ill, Euthenasia is the only way to stop the suffering, this I can agree with too.

Please don't say it is selfish. It's not always the case.

[Baywriter]

yea, thats the way to look at it. A person feels so bad about themselves and life etc that they would rather kill themselves. Yea, they are being selfish, thats a good thing to tell them. They need your support and help if you want them to pull through this. Someone who feels this bad probably has some sort of mental illness that needs treating and ok, it might be the "cowards" way out, but what if it is the only way they see because of the people like you would shun then for even thinking about suicide?

I am not aiming this at you btw, BayWriter, I just used your quote as an example of what people on your side of the fence generally say.

Even if that wasn't aimed at me, I would NEVER shun someone for thinking about it. I've been down that path. I've attempted it. I failed and ended up in the hospital. After that, I realized how selfish I was being. I realized what I was doing to my family and friends. I've been on both sides. I've had dear friends commit suicide. My father commited suicide. To be on THAT side was worse than being on the other side, where I tried to do it myself.

On that side, I had a solution. I was just going to die and end my pain. The end. But on the other side... I didn't know what to do with my pain. I was lost (I still am). It's something that still is slowly killing me everyday. So yeah, it's selfish to kill yourself. I'm sticking to that. But again, I would always try to help someone who was trying to go down that path rather than condemning them for it.

[Raven]

But again I repeat myself. Do not condemn those that choose to end their lifes. There are always reasons we can never possibly know why someone choses that path unless we have been there and thankfully I have not.



Even if that wasn't aimed at me, I would NEVER shun someone for thinking about it. I've been down that path. I've attempted it. I failed and ended up in the hospital. After that, I realized how selfish I was being. I realized what I was doing to my family and friends. I've been on both sides. I've had dear friends commit suicide. My father commited suicide. To be on THAT side was worse than being on the other side, where I tried to do it myself.

On that side, I had a solution. I was just going to die and end my pain. The end. But on the other side... I didn't know what to do with my pain. I was lost (I still am). It's something that still is slowly killing me everyday. So yeah, it's selfish to kill yourself. I'm sticking to that. But again, I would always try to help someone who was trying to go down that path rather than condemning them for it.
Well said Baywriter. You've certainly if anything shown yourself how strong you are. And I'm sure your father is very proud of you.

[Heather Louise]

BayWriter, I am sorry to hear about your losses with it, but I still struggle to see why commiting suicide is selfish? Because it hurts your family? tough, lots of things hurt them in life, that is life. I really think these people neede help rather than to be called "selfish" and whatnot.

Torana, I am terribly sorry to hear about your mother, and yes I know what you mean, sometimes euthanasia can be the easiest choice.

I am sorry if I offeneded you with what I said, Baywriter, suicide is often a touchy topic as many people have strong feelings about it and their own experiences with it. It wasn't meant offensivly what I said, I just think that people shuld be more sensitve around the area and people feeling suicidal. Just because you pulled through and mnaged, doesn't mean everyone else will.

[Baywriter]

Fine. It's not selfish. It's not selfish to destroy the lives of everyone that loves you just so YOU can feel better, which perhaps could even lead those people down the same path you chose. Nope. Not at all. My mistake.

You have to understand how much it devastates a person's family and friends. If you can't, then I can't help you. You see, it's not the fact that it hurts. It's how much it hurts them. It sometimes takes years for them to even begin to feel better. Sometimes they NEVER feel better. Causing a lifetime of pain to everyone that cared about you IS selfish.

Just because they're in distress does not mean that they don't need to hear the truth. "It's life" as you say. Yeah, it does offend me that you're telling me not to say that it's selfish. It is. I realized it myself, and THAT'S why I pulled through. I think people who are suicidal DO need to hear because maybe they'll pull through, too.

[mammamaia]

torana has sadly shown exactly why it should not be condemned across the board!... if you who are doing so were in the horrible situation her mom is [and mine was for years!], i'm sure you'd change your mind in one hell of a hurry... i'm sure if her mom had the ability to do it, she'd end her life, rather than go on suffering and making her daughter have to watch helplessly...

as i did with my mom, torana, i'll hope for a nice painless going-in-her-sleep for yours, soon... i loved my mother as you do yours and yet was so grateful to whatever when she finally didn't wake up one morning, at the age of 93, having had no quality of life whatsoever for years...

love and hugs, maia

[Raven]

You have to understand how much it devastates a person's family and friends. If you can't, then I can't help you. You see, it's not the fact that it hurts. It's how much it hurts them. It sometimes takes years for them to even begin to feel better. Sometimes they NEVER feel better. Causing a lifetime of pain to everyone that cared about you IS selfish.


Sorry here Baywriter I kind of disagree on that note. I understand your reasons. Well as much as is Possible not knowing the full facts.

But Suicide happens for many reasons and alot of suicide comes from those suffering.

When I was in Afghanistan on the roads in the desert we would come across many tied up spread eagled on the side of the road. Those people had, had their hands and feet cut off and other un-mentionable things done to them. They we're in so much pain that the only merciful thing that could be done was to take that pain away. Some of these men women and children had been burnt after been covered in petrol. You cannot imagine the sight let along the pain. They begged to be put down. BEGGED. You just cannot imagine that and worse still some of these people couldn't be cut free because they had been booby trapped.

I'm sorry Baywriter but you cannot condemn Suicide not from all the different aspects.

I tell you this. Sometimes when i close my eyes I still see them especially the young. It took me nearly a year to sleep in my bed.

You just cannot imagine that.

[Baywriter]

For the last time, I AM NOT condemning anyone. I would always want to help someone that needed it, and I think that sometimes that requires them knowing that it's selfish. Even if you're in pain, whether physical or emotional, I don't think it's okay. That's my opinion.

That's all really horrible Raven, and I understand that, but... I will say that it can be JUST as bad when suffering is caused by an emotional issue. One is not worse than the other, and I've been on that emotional side.

From every standpoint the fact remains the same: other people are getting hurt for your benefit. Whether the circumstances are wrong or right for suicide, it is STILL selfish. That's the only point I was trying to make.

[Cogito]

You do have a point, Raven, and so do you, Torana. Certainly there are situations where there is real suffering that cannot be allebviated by any means available. And forcing someone to endure when there is no possible relief may be heartless.

But much of what I have seen makes me agree with Baywriter. The majority of suicides are manipulative, selfish acts by people who are taking the ultimate escape from consequences. Their life turns to crud, so rather than stick it through and deal with it, they dump the mess and the guilt into others' laps. Worse yet, because they are on their way out of retribution, they do as much damage as they can on the way out.

In these cases, and I truly believe they VASTLY outnumber the justifiable cases, it's just the final eff you to those left behind.

[Raven]

When put like that I have to say fair enough. The main point I was making was that we cannot judge every case but like you say there are those that are "manipulative, selfish acts by people who are taking the ultimate escape from consequences." And I agree with you fully on that note.

I guess this is a touchy topic after all.....

[adamant]

But, just to play devil's advocate, I would like to ask the question:

If they were willing to do something you deem that destructive, what might they do if they are still alive? Say they turn to a heavy drug and ruin themselves, how much better would that outcome be?

memeto mori

[Cogito]

Well, I would also argue that drug use is sometimes a means of gradual suicide that avoids the critical moment of decision.

For a philosophical discussion of suicide, Albert Camus' writings on existentialism are an excellent place to begin.

[Torana]

torana has sadly shown exactly why it should not be condemned across the board!... if you who are doing so were in the horrible situation her mom is [and mine was for years!], i'm sure you'd change your mind in one hell of a hurry... i'm sure if her mom had the ability to do it, she'd end her life, rather than go on suffering and making her daughter have to watch helplessly...

as i did with my mom, torana, i'll hope for a nice painless going-in-her-sleep for yours, soon... i loved my mother as you do yours and yet was so grateful to whatever when she finally didn't wake up one morning, at the age of 93, having had no quality of life whatsoever for years...

love and hugs, maia

Thank you maia. It is good to know someone can understand where I was coming from with what I stated. I hope she will pass peacefully in her sleep as well. Though it will be a couple more years for my mother before she is too badly in that state.

Suicide is devastating and breaks many peoples hearts. No matter what the reason, it still will destroy many peoples hearts and lives and has done so many times.

[SeaBreeze]

It may destory lives but hang on, isn't it selfish of everyone else? This person who feels pain beyond imagination, physical and mental anguish needs to be selfish. Ok, sometimes, but honestly, the amount of times I have seen in posts it's selfish and how could anyone do that? annoys the crap outta me.

I feel like killing myeslf a few times. Mental torture. I get so sick of caring about what anyone else is feeling and for once I want to focus on myself.

Selfish as I may be, but I would of done myself in a while ago now if I hadn't met my Boyfriend. Stupid. Silly. Uncontrollable anguish is the most horrid feeling. You feel so lost. You feel like everything is sucking you into a massive black hole.


So I am seeing this from the other side. The side where you want to die. You want to take a knife and drag it across the skin and watch the blood flow. Selfish, yes, but isn't it selfish to make this person live a life they don't want to live anymore, I mean, ok, they save this person. But do they make any effort after that? I'm not talking weeks, I'm talking months, years after saving them or calling the ambulance in time.

Help those that do want to commit suicide by staying by their side. Not fob them off after it seems 'safe'.

[Torana]

See i made the mistake once about not listening to someone that was calling out for help and she is now dead from suicide....now that in my part was selfish....

Someone says they want to it is a cry for help and we as humans and decent people have to be there to help. Even if it is just attention, one day it might not be and they may just do it!!! Normally someone saying they want to or are going to will end up doing it or trying at some point.

[Heather Louise]

Fine. It's not selfish. It's not selfish to destroy the lives of everyone that loves you just so YOU can feel better, which perhaps could even lead those people down the same path you chose. Nope. Not at all. My mistake.

You have to understand how much it devastates a person's family and friends. If you can't, then I can't help you. You see, it's not the fact that it hurts. It's how much it hurts them. It sometimes takes years for them to even begin to feel better. Sometimes they NEVER feel better. Causing a lifetime of pain to everyone that cared about you IS selfish. Yea, but isn’t it selfish to say your daughter has to suffer because you’ll get upset if they kill themselves? Isn’t that just as fricking selfish?! Are you seriously telling me that you should have to spend your life wishing you were dead in case you upset a few people, because that sounds ridiculous to me.


Just because they're in distress does not mean that they don't need to hear the truth. "It's life" as you say. Yeah, it does offend me that you're telling me not to say that it's selfish. It is. I realized it myself, and THAT'S why I pulled through. I think people who are suicidal DO need to hear because maybe they'll pull through, too. Yea, so just because you pulled through it means everyone else can. People are not all as strong as you. I am glad you pulled through BayWriter, it takes a lot of effort, but a lot of people cannot do it. There are people in mental institutions who are never going to leave because they are too ill so why the hell should they just sit there and suffer for the rest of their life?

[SeaBreeze]

^exactly.

[lessa]

If anyone here does it. we will never speak to you again.
enough said.

[Torana]

Heather I know that not everyone makes it through it. But there are a lot of people who think that they have to go through it alone. But the thing is that they don't have to.
I know how hard it is to not believe that, but there are so many people out there who are wanting to help people who feel this way.

I have seen many people go down this road with thinking about suicide and it broke my heart. I've sat with people who have tried and spoken with them about it. It really is heart breaking to hear what they have to say and to convince them that they are loved and cared about is not an easy thing to do.

I won't stand here and call someone a coward, I will stand here and sat to them that I am sorry they feel that way and re-assure them that there is someone that cares enough to hold there hand, give them a smile, or even a hug and let them know that they are special and that they don't have to go through it on their own anymore.

Suicide, I wouldn't describe as cowardly, I would more say it is devastating and heart breaking and lonely! Very lonely. My only hope is that people out there who feel this way, that they are alone and want to commit suicide, find someone with a big enough heart to confide in and just be held by so that once they can feel what it is like to know someone cares....

I think that they just need to know that no matter how hard life gets, it is always going to get better. It always does. And that they are never alone! No one ever is alone. Someone always cares :) even if they don't show it well, they DO STILL CARE ABOUT YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cogito]

See i made the mistake once about not listening to someone that was calling out for help and she is now dead from suicide....now that in my part was selfish...

No. But look at the burden that left on you. That is one of the legacies of suicide, that "I should have listened" onus.

Sometimes that call for help is more of a demand for attention, an extrapolation of "I'll hold my breath until you speak to me!"

Although everyone laughs at the scene in Blazing Saddles where the new black Sheriff holds a gun to his own head, and says, "One false move and the **** gets it!" it mirrors a serious kind of emotional blackmail that is not laughable in the least.

Believe me, it is not a rare scenario.

[Torana]

Yeah I know Cogito. It can be a cry for attention. But sometimes just by giving them the attention does really help them a long. Not giving them the attention can sometimes lead to an attempt.

It is hard to distinguish between a cry for help and a cry for attention. I've been witnessed to both though. But the situation I mentioned earlier I was on drugs and drunk and was more interested in partying when a friend was in desperate need.

But then forgiving yourself is a different thing and that I have done now....can't dwell on the past forever. I know that sounds harsh, but dwelling on past pains can be a major factor in depression and going down that road yourself.

[Cogito]

Or else giving them the attention reinforces the behavior. Before you know it, you are the hostage to their threat of self-destruction.

[Torana]

Yes very true. It is a very sticky situation to be put into that is for sure.

[lessa]

I have on 3 different occasions stopped suicide attempts on the internet.
I managed to get a hold of police in the city they lived in and they went and ended taking the people to the hospital.
They all came back to say thank you but then tried it again a couple of times.
Makes me wonder about their mental stability.
It certainly shakes a board up when this happens.
I would never turn down when asked to help just don't always know what to do.

[Torana]

I know that feeling all too well lessa. It can be very hard to know what to do and what to say. Sometimes saying what you think is right is the wrong thing to do.

[Cogito]

I've had to deal with situation before as well, lessa, more than once. We've had to network with people who knew the person in question's real identity and location, while everyone else tried to keep that person conscious or in the house, and talking.

All kinds of people get pulled into it, online and otherwise. Maybe a life is saved, maybe it wasn't in the peril it appeared to be. If I seem jaded, it's because I've seen a lot of manipulation taking place before, during, and after these incidents.

[ANT (Bar YOSEF)]

I think its ok to commit suicide when people dont talk to you on forums!!!!!!


No seriously i think its not ok because you're taking the easy way out instead of facing up to your problems!

[Seanachie]

Do you approve or disapprove of suicide?

Thoroughly approve. Have tried it several times, and failed, to the great disappointment of others, no doubt.

[Baywriter]

Yea, but isn’t it selfish to say your daughter has to suffer because you’ll get upset if they kill themselves? Isn’t that just as fricking selfish?! Are you seriously telling me that you should have to spend your life wishing you were dead in case you upset a few people, because that sounds ridiculous to me.

Yea, so just because you pulled through it means everyone else can. People are not all as strong as you. I am glad you pulled through BayWriter, it takes a lot of effort, but a lot of people cannot do it. There are people in mental institutions who are never going to leave because they are too ill so why the hell should they just sit there and suffer for the rest of their life?
Those people should GET HELP. Not kill themselves. People CAN do it. It's a matter of TRYING. I thought I couldn't do it at all. I was so far down that I didn't think I could get back up until I TRIED to do something about it. If someone is mentally incapable, then the people that care about them should get them help. Clearly I'm talking to someone who's never experienced the loss of someone who commited suicide. There's guilt. Devastation. Fear. There's always that awful question:

"What did I do wrong?"

I will admit that there may be some cases where suicide might seem appropriate, but that doesn't mean it isn't selfish. It's going to be whatever way you look at it. And sure, trying to keep someone alive may be just as selfish, but so is suicide. That is the ONLY point I was trying to make. If people would stop getting on my case about it, that would be helpful.

[mammamaia]

Yea, but isn’t it selfish to say your daughter has to suffer because you’ll get upset if they kill themselves? Isn’t that just as fricking selfish?! Are you seriously telling me that you should have to spend your life wishing you were dead in case you upset a few people, because that sounds ridiculous to me.

Yea, so just because you pulled through it means everyone else can. People are not all as strong as you. I am glad you pulled through BayWriter, it takes a lot of effort, but a lot of people cannot do it. There are people in mental institutions who are never going to leave because they are too ill so why the hell should they just sit there and suffer for the rest of their life?

i have to agree with you, heather... the selfishness being bandied about here is more on the side of those whose lives are not too painful to continue, not from those who should be allowed to do what they want with their body... as ayn rand put it so well and strongly in her writings--especially in her seminal novel, 'atlas shrugged'--no one should have to live their life for another...

all you who go on about how suicide is a selfish act should also admit that life is, too... and we all should have the right to our own lives... to force someone you supposedly love to live on in hideous pain and suffering, simply because you'll miss them if they're gone, is the absolute worst kind of selfishness!


Those people should GET HELP. Not kill themselves. People CAN do it. It's a matter of TRYING.

that's so silly it's nonsensical!... how can anyone 'get help' from having been burned over 90% of their bodies and having their hands and feet cut off?...

how can an old person 'get help' from having to lie in their own piss and feces and not know who they are or where they are or who their family members are, anymore and no cure for it but death?...

how can anyone 'get help' from having terminal cancer and facing who knows how long of having to be attached to tubes and machines and suffer pain you can't even imagine, knowing they'll die at the end, anyway?

[Baywriter]

I said there may be cases when suicide is appropriate. Read the whole post before commenting. Thanks.

[Raven]

And on that note.....



We have reached full circle on this thread. So I'm ending it before it turns nasty.





*Click*