What hurts more for you?

[tcol4417]

Criticism on something that you've made from a complete stranger or criticism from someone close to you?

Constructive of course, but I still find it smarts all the same.

And then there are points where they misunderstand what you're trying to do - but then it's still your fault for not sending the message.

Thoughts? Experiences?

I personally show few of my drawings and none of my writing to people I know personally because drawings are easy enough to judge the merits of while reading takes time leaving a more room for things like boredom to set in. Not to mention the rarity of honest, constructive answers =P

[Gallowglass]

Neither. Even if the criticism is meant to give offence, as long as the subject is my work then it's worth something.

[ArckAngel]

When somebody, anybody says "That's great." And gives me my writing back without anything constructive said. That's what hurts the most.

[murphcas]

When somebody, anybody says "That's great." And gives me my writing back without anything constructive said. That's what hurts the most.

I agree with that! That's why I try not to get my friends to help me unless they're actually gonna say something constructive about it. It's frustrating when you've worked on something for so long and you really want someone to tell you what they think and how you can improve and where they didn't understand but they don't.

Otherwise I don't care who gives me constructive criticism because it'll be helpful either way. There's really only one person I get nervous showing my work to and i think that's because we like to write for different audiences (I'm more young adult and he's more adult).

[RomanticRose]

Neither one really hurts, so long as it's constructive criticism. At group, I get mixed emotions if they are down to picking at dubious grammar nits and word choices. It's great if I can reduce that bloodthirsty bunch to the picking of nits, but there's a (weird) sort of satisfaction in having my work shredded by a group of writers and readers I respect. (I never said I was normal.)

If it's not constructive, as in the one word -- either positive or negative -- replies, I have at least learned one more person from whom not to seek feedback.

[Cheeno]

I've learnt not to ask for criticism from family or close friends, for obvious reasons - they don't want to hurt, and they're not writers, or in the game. When it comes to receiving crits from writers, I'm fine once comments are considered and constructive.

[Agreen]

I actually find it complementary that they took the time to read through my work and thought it worth the effort to try and help me improve.

Edit: Way to read the thread, me. I feel the same either way- the nervousness, and excitement as I wait for feedback, and I treat them pretty much the same. It often works out that I prefer comments from fellow writers because they are often more thorough, but with people close to me I love to explain what I've referenced, where that idea came from and where the story goes from this particular point. But Cheeno is right, aside from spelling and grammar errors those close to me aren't going to be as critical even when I ask them to.

[afinemess]

While I am one who says all reviews are good reviews, I have to retract my stance a little. I had my father reviewing my novel, and he was doing great, giving me tips, compliments, telling me what was wrong in places...then there was my mother, standing over his shoulder saying "You cant say 'do not' you have to say 'dont'. You can't say will not, you have to say 'won't'...it's a rule, duh." and I wanted to kill her.
I think that hurt more than a random stranger picking it apart because I had worked so hard on it, and she knew that, then found only the most measly things to say, which weren't even true! haha I wouldnt have minded if it was really a fact that you can't say 'will not'. I am definatly more nervous when a family member reads my work, just because I tend to bloat myself up and say I am so fantastic. :D

[Gigi_GNR]

While I am one who says all reviews are good reviews, I have to retract my stance a little. I had my father reviewing my novel, and he was doing great, giving me tips, compliments, telling me what was wrong in places...then there was my mother, standing over his shoulder saying "You cant say 'do not' you have to say 'dont'. You can't say will not, you have to say 'won't'...it's a rule, duh." and I wanted to kill her.
I think that hurt more than a random stranger picking it apart because I had worked so hard on it, and she knew that, then found only the most measly things to say, which weren't even true! haha I wouldnt have minded if it was really a fact that you can't say 'will not'. I am definatly more nervous when a family member reads my work, just because I tend to bloat myself up and say I am so fantastic. :D

Wow, that's bad. It's not a RULE, per se; tell her that or just smack her one. xD

What's worst for me is having my friends pick my writing apart.

[bluebell80]

I don't think it so much -- hurts -- to have either group of people review my work. Sometimes it can be uncomfortable if they volunteer to read something, then never get back with you. But in those situations I just don't bring it up again. I assume they either didn't have the time and don't want to say so, or didn't like it and don't want to hurt my feelings. But that's not really painful, just a touch annoying. I'd rather honesty.

Receiving negative criticism, no matter how constructive, is always a bit of a blow to the ego. Of course most of us suffer with that, what makes it either not so bad or horrible is our own view of our writing. If we think we wrote something that was gold, and someone tears down our baby, then our ego takes a critical blow. But if we can divorce ourselves from our work, we can lessen the ego blow when things aren't perfect.

I do have a friend, online, who I trust to give me an honest opinion, but he does it in a way that isn't too ego damaging. He's like a friendly editor. :) I've stopped letting my hubby look, because my writing isn't normally action packed enough to hold his attention.

Having random annonmous strangers on the internet read my work is helpful in it's own way, since the general public who would read a book I write will all be strangers too. So it is nice to get strangers opinions when they are willing to do a reading. They are much more likely to tear things apart as a reader and a writer, so the criticism is usually much more helpful.

It's also better for personal relationships not to add that undue stress of expectation between you, when it comes to being honest in a critique. Most strangers don't give a hoot if they hurt your feelings, and there is no relationship to foster, so it is safe to express honest opinions.

In total, I try not to have people close to me read my work, at least not until it comes out in print. :)

[Gigi_GNR]

I don't really ever let people read what I write unless it's top notch, all edited and tweaked. Otherwise, no.

[Ansky]

I've never really asked strangers to review my work, though I likely will at some point on this forum. I'm okay with constructive criticism, though, and the more detailed the better. Like some people above said, what really irks me is when someone says "Great," or "looks good," and that's all. I'd rather hear a, "this is pretty good, but..." and have the person list areas that could be improved than hear that it was "great," and hear nothing. And if someone thinks that an aspect of one of my stories is terrible, I want to be told that it's terrible (albeit maybe in a nicer way ;))

[PS Foster]

I asked my granddaughter to read one of my stories. She's a college graduate and a teacher. Her response was, "That's a great story." I asked if there was anything that needed fixed, such as grammar, etc. "She said, "I don't think so. It sounds good to me."
I had it critiqued on another site, and several mistakes were pointed out. I asked her why she didn't see them, since she was a teacher. Her response was, "Grandma, I teach Kindergarten. They don't write."
So I guess she didn't learn anything past a kindergarten level in 5 years of college?

[bluebell80]

Wow that's kind of scary actually. What does that say for the college system of training teachers who teach the next generation?

[Cheeno]

Maybe she was just being...nice? Which is why I refrain from asking family for opinions.

[eliza490]

I'm generally not offended by people critiquing my work. I'll look over the piece after reading what they had to say about it, and if I don't agree with their remarks I just leave things the way they are. And if someone critiquing your work really bothers you that much you might not be ready to be a published author. You need to be prepared for an editor to say 'you need to change this' or for critics to give your book a bad review. I think critiques help me prepare my work for being presented to the rest of the world. I welcome them.
~Eliza

[freethinker09]

I have a question...

Can't some constructive criticism be negative? Or maybe I'm not thinking clearly?

As for my writing being reviewed I really can't say I enjoy any type of criticism. I mean if it's the simple things like consider revising this sentence, look at the grammar here...and stuff like that that would be constructive, but I still think sometimes constructive can easily turn into negative.

Maybe I'm being too analytical and philosophical about it...

That's funny. I saw I don't enjoy criticism and yet my signature says otherwise. Ha. Wow. I feel like a hypocrite. Or maybe I really don't care?

[Cogito]

Absolutely. In fact, it's much harder to make constructive compliments, because it's a lot easier to pinpoint something that doesn't sit well than to find something that stands out in a positive way without unbalancing the rest of the piece.

Of course, you can praise the overall piece while still pointing out features tyat could stand improving.

Constructive critique is critrique that is specific with regards to what, where, and why.

[Joran Selemis]

My family and friends always tell me they like what I write, and they say "this was great" then tell me what could be improved. I like that, though, except it's really difficult to tell whether they're being sincere or whether they just don't want to hurt my feelings.

What really hurts for me is when people flat-out dislike my stories and give reasons like 'cause I just didn't like it.' I can understand most of it: sci fi isn't for everyone, after all, but the people comment really offensively and seem to be insulting me, which pisses me off because it's more that they're raggin on me for writing sci fi than writing poorly. That's something else that pisses me off: people who just instantly disregard sci fi. In english I always used to ask my teacher whether we'd be marked down for sci fi and she said between her teeth 'no', because that's what she has to say. But then she also said that none of the english staff want to read sci fi, which I think is a bit bogus personally. But just, people who say 'i don't like sci fi just cause'. Give me a reason, it's fine.

[wilcan]

Criticism on something that you've made from a complete stranger or criticism from someone close to you?

Of course, it can hurt both ways. Me? I'm awful thin skined I must admit.

The only person here at this forum, that I've had contact with before, just happened to be one of the first critics of a story that I'm writing. And when my initial effort got shot down, and probably with good reasons, I felt terrible. The person just seemed to skim the first couple of paragraphs, covering it with red marks (all that was posted to me) of a 900 word piece and I guess, summarily and somewhat cavalierly dismissing the rest (which I don't believe they even took the time to read) telling me that my efforts would never measure up professionally. To me right now, "WHAT" I write is as important as "HOW" I write it. And I felt cheated,THAT HURT.

But, I guess, as they say, no pain - no gain...

And personally, I find it hard to critique another's work for a good reason. I am a novice in writing. Punctuation is easy. Not too much subjectivity involved there. Just follow the style books and know which side of the ocean your readers are likey to be on and you'll be OK. But creating and writing is not like reporting or transcribing another's words. They are one's own words, sink or swim, and with that, the risk is personal. So I'm reluctant to give advise to another, since I'm not sure myself. THat would be dishonest.

I'm not sure if what I've said here is appropriate, but criticism is hard to take from anybody--friend or stranger unless you really trust the person. And unless I want risk, getting get locked out, I'll have to take the risk of criticizing others--others who are maybe even more thin skinned than I am.

Thank you for reading this, whoever you are..

[StrangerWithNoName]

When somebody, anybody says "That's great." And gives me my writing back without anything constructive said. That's what hurts the most.

This one and its negative counterpart:

"It's horrible, stop writing."

If I ask a review I would like at least that the reviewer to read the piece and tell me what (s)he likes and what (s)he doesn't a why.

[Cogito]

"It's horrible, stop writing."If you ever see that kind of remark on this site, report it. It is not constructive in the least, merely insulting, and will not be tolerated here.

We tolerate (but do not reward) fluffy praise, but we will not permit gratuitous trashing. This is another reason to be specific. If you frankly state, "This is awful," but give specific reasons to support that conclusion, and possible remedies, you are actually helping the author improve, even if you have no good news to deliver.

However, "Give up writing" is not an acceptable remedy.

[FoxZero]

You know what hurts for me? When I feel someone is holding back.
Granted I may think there's something wrong with my work when there isn't, but I'm the type is rarely satisfied with my own work. I strive to improve, I sometimes need a nudge in the right direction. A shove is fine too, just don't knock me off my feet!

[Runaway]

What hurts the most for me is when you give your review up for a critique, you're all excited and whatever because you think this will help you improve your writing, and then they say something like 'Good stuff, keep writing'. So I guess I'm like a lot of the forum users in that respect.
Honestly I'd rather have anything over that. Hell, even a flame would be better to me, bc I always find flames pretty damn funny xD (i dunno why tho)
Constructive reviews, positive or negative, make me ecstatic.

[PennyLane]

Which hurts more? I'd say none as well. As long as it's constructive (ah people seem to just love this word!) and as detailed as possible. Nevertheless, there can be contradictions when someone you know is reviewing your work. As somebody stated already, the people who don't know you don't have any problem in being as nasty as mean as they want, but the people close to you don't want to hurt your feelings... and that might make them unnecerrassarily gentle.

Personally, to let people read the texts I've written has always been a problem for me. I feel writing is highly personal. Although I write fiction I feel like there's always something of me in the story. If I know that I'd have to show my work to someone I know, it might even affect my writing. Gosh, this is a real problem. Maybe I'll start another thread to discuss this: Why do I feel embarrassed to show my work?

[StrangerWithNoName]

If you ever see that kind of remark on this site, report it. It is not constructive in the least, merely insulting, and will not be tolerated here.

We tolerate (but do not reward) fluffy praise, but we will not permit gratuitous trashing. This is another reason to be specific. If you frankly state, "This is awful," but give specific reasons to support that conclusion, and possible remedies, you are actually helping the author improve, even if you have no good news to deliver.

However, "Give up writing" is not an acceptable remedy.


Cogito, it didn't happen here, but on another board (AW) that for other aspects I liked, it's a quite active community and the members immediately answered to my posts in various areas.

I had the bad idea to post the first two pages of my work, underlining that I had problems with the beginning and that some sentences were too convoluted so I needed some help to rework it. I opened the thread in the specific area, got 30 visitors and the only comment was from...well a published author! At least, on her signature there was a link to her personal pages with her works.

So she told me that:

1)The first character I showed was a stereotyped peggy sue
2)The scene of the dressing was a clichè
3)The dialogues were unrealistic and clumsy
4)The general writing was horrible
5)I didn't have a story
6)Nobody in the professional world would ever read such a work

So I've said that it was enough, I deleted my first post and I asked the moderators to delete the thread. All I got was a answer that I got offended for nothing and if I wanted "soft" criticism that wasn't the place. I answered her that I didn't mind harsh criticism but I was looking for some solution to the problems of my first pages, then I left the board.

As you may understand, I'm not too eager to share my work on this board too.

[InkDream]

Neither, although I get more reliable and constructive criticism from strangers. That's just the way it goes.

[ChimmyBear]

I can't say that anything hurts me when I receive an honest review. I believe there is always something that can be improved. No writing is 100% and is open to honest critique. If someone told me, they wouldn't change a thing, I would wonder if they even read it through. There has to be something you would like to see deleted, added, or altered in some way.

Becoming hurt over a review is a waste of time and effort, we are writers and the only way to improve is to over come our insecurities by becoming vulnerable. Writers are some of the strongest people I know. You have to trust in yourself and your craft.

[breakingwave]

I think that's a good question. I would not have a problem with either stranger or close friend if I respected their opinions.


Neither. Even if the criticism is meant to give offence, as long as the subject is my work then it's worth something.

That would be my feeling as well. Even if I hated a review, I might lick my wounds by myself for a while, but it wouldn't stop me from writing.

[Mulgan]

I think as an art form, writing should be open to anyone and that it's effect on the reader is subjective. Whether the reader is an informed stranger or an ignorant friend, the opinions/critiques or lack of themm, to me are equally valid.

If your art cannot evoke enough of a reaction from your friends, you'd do well to question either your friends or the piece itself.

I always seek to write what I mean in the context of what I mean, not in the context of how it will be recieved. Know what I mean ? :)

[Mulgan]

Sorry to post twice.
To answer teh question directly:
I probably take more offence at negative feedback from a friend as I'd probably shown them it with the hope they'd like it based on my understanding of the person.

[bluebell80]

So she told me that:

1)The first character I showed was a stereotyped peggy sue
2)The scene of the dressing was a clichè
3)The dialogues were unrealistic and clumsy
4)The general writing was horrible
5)I didn't have a story
6)Nobody in the professional world would ever read such a work



LOL! That sounds like something my teacher said to one of the students in the creative writing class I took! He was a tad nicer about it, like not saying the general writing was horrible, but that it needed massive work. He would tell people they had no story, and most of the time he was right.

All the things you have listed here are common mistakes that beginner writers make. Stories that lack conflict, making it lack any type of interest in reading it. Characters that are too stereotypical. Use of cliches. Funky sentence structure, misspellings, and other grammatical boo-boos.

I do think the writer could have offered some advice by picking out parts that were the worst offenders and showing you how to fix them, but maybe she didn't have time, in which, she probably shouldn't have critiqued.

I always believe that most people can improve and shouldn't stop writing. Writing is a skill that takes time to learn and is only learnable through doing. It's on the job training.

I've never minded harsh critiques, but now that I have been writing for years, I can spot people who are just jerks who's critiques aren't worth the time they took to write them.

I know I don't show people close to me any of my work, at least not until it is super polished and sparkly clean. It's kind of like that with jewelry making too for me. I hate having someone see something that isn't finished, and for me finished is next to perfect. If there's a little dent in a wire, or something just isn't working right, then I start over. Same with writing for me. This is why I don't post much on here, but am active in discussions and give critiques when I have time. I like things to be finished before I ask if anything can be improved upon. It's always best to show your best effort when asking for critiques.

[Mulgan]

I like things to be finished before I ask if anything can be improved upon. It's always best to show your best effort when asking for critiques.
This is an important point. I am a sinner; I've recently posted a couple of pieces for review I've had to later edit due to typos.

Thank you for reminding me :)

[eliza490]

I tend to feel a little hurt when a friend or someone I really admire doesn't like my work. What's worse, though, is someone reads it quickly without really absorbing it and then says 'it's great', thinking that they've actually been helpful.
~Eliza

[FoxZero]

I tend to feel a little hurt when a friend or someone I really admire doesn't like my work. What's worse, though, is someone reads it quickly without really absorbing it and then says 'it's great', thinking that they've actually been helpful.
~Eliza

Seems like a lot of people feel that way.

I finally had a family member give me an honest critique of one of my stories. She told me my character development was spot on but my details on the setting were lacking. Now that's a lot more helpful than "great! Keep up the good work!"

Of course the people I've been giving my stories to don't read read a lot and probably don't feel they can give a proper review. It's frustrating when you're trying so hard to improve. Unfortunately all of the writing clubs around me are pretty far away and I'm too cheap to spend money on the gas lol

[Unsavory]

No matter who it comes from, my first review of a piece is always the hardest. This is the time that I am blind to every remaining mistake since I've already read and reread my piece to make sure it's "perfect." It's the time when significant plot holes that I flat out missed are pointed out to me and it's the time that I have no other reviews to fall back on when the reviewer says something that I totally disagree with.

[bluebell80]

This is an important point. I am a sinner; I've recently posted a couple of pieces for review I've had to later edit due to typos.

Thank you for reminding me :)

:) Meh. We all sin in this sometimes. I've done it enough times and been called out on it. It seems the older I get the more anal I am about things. Of course, I don't post for critique here very often, not for dislike of being critiqued by those here, because everyone is always helpful, but for lack of time to write short stories, or small pieces of things I don't plan to publish at some point. I won't post things online that I plan to publish. I might do an email exchange with someone at some point, but not online. Too scared that copyright issues could arise.



I tend to feel a little hurt when a friend or someone I really admire doesn't like my work. What's worse, though, is someone reads it quickly without really absorbing it and then says 'it's great', thinking that they've actually been helpful.
~Eliza

^^ That is one reason I wouldn't critique someone I am close to, especially if they aren't dedicated to being a writer, or if they are a beginner. If I had a close person who was nearly publishable or was published, reading for them wouldn't be as relationship crushing. Of course, that is also why I don't give anything I write to my friends or family, I think no response is worse than a flippant one. Had that happen once, never again though. The person never said anything about it, so I didn't ask. Assumed it was so bad they didn't want to hurt my feelings. However, saying nothing was worse than if they had said "this was crap, couldn't get through the first page." Saying nothing is right up there with the tactful, "well, it was good." fake response.

[FoxZero]

^^ That is one reason I wouldn't critique someone I am close to, especially if they aren't dedicated to being a writer, or if they are a beginner. If I had a close person who was nearly publishable or was published, reading for them wouldn't be as relationship crushing. Of course, that is also why I don't give anything I write to my friends or family, I think no response is worse than a flippant one. Had that happen once, never again though. The person never said anything about it, so I didn't ask. Assumed it was so bad they didn't want to hurt my feelings. However, saying nothing was worse than if they had said "this was crap, couldn't get through the first page." Saying nothing is right up there with the tactful, "well, it was good." fake response.

Lol I would do quite the opposite, but I'm known for brutal honesty. Besides I would give a fair warning. I want nothing less than honesty and I will give nothing less. If any of my friends were that emotionally reactive, well they probably wouldn't be my friends lol. Oh wait I do have a friend like that, and I bust his balls for it :D I'm a guy.

[bluebell80]

HAHAHAHAHA! That's hilarious Fox. Luckily, I don't know anyone who thinks they are a writer, so I've dodged that bullet for the most part. Except once, my hubby asked me to read a paper he was submitting for a college course. We didn't talk for a week after that. I was hard on him with the red pen, and he couldn't hack it. He got over it though after he got an A+ with my fixes, after getting a C on his last paper without my help.

[hoodwinked]

HAHAHAHAHA! That's hilarious Fox. Luckily, I don't know anyone who thinks they are a writer, so I've dodged that bullet for the most part. Except once, my hubby asked me to read a paper he was submitting for a college course. We didn't talk for a week after that. I was hard on him with the red pen, and he couldn't hack it. He got over it though after he got an A+ with my fixes, after getting a C on his last paper without my help.

Lmao. I had a friend like that... she was absolutely horrible with her punctuation (we were high school freshman) and her papers would covered in markings. At first she would be offended, but then she, like your husband, got over it.

[FoxZero]

HAHAHAHAHA! That's hilarious Fox. Luckily, I don't know anyone who thinks they are a writer, so I've dodged that bullet for the most part. Except once, my hubby asked me to read a paper he was submitting for a college course. We didn't talk for a week after that. I was hard on him with the red pen, and he couldn't hack it. He got over it though after he got an A+ with my fixes, after getting a C on his last paper without my help.

lol Kind of reminds of my dad, he flips out if you correct him on anything, and of course I have no problem telling him when he's wrong lol. I think a lot of us get like that, but with me I turn it around to a positive light and am thankful to now possess the correct information.

I have a bunch of friends that are straight up blunt, and then there's a guy who can't handle being told he's bad at a video game. We're conditioning him though. He's got a big ego too, that might just be it. Some of us get so full of ourselves that when we're not told we're the hottest stuff we flip out. Just an idea.

[Shadows]

Well I would say it hurts the most when people I know do it. I really appreciate when they tell me what they liked and what not and not just oh you're good. That's why I'm opposed to showing my writing to some people. If someone else does it and gives me a review telling me what they don't like, I think that makes me a better writer. That's why I try to tell people if I liked what they wrote and If I liked it I don't think there would be anything bad to say.

[lavendershy]

Probably people close to me. I have little difficulty posting something on here or another online forum, but I have a super hard time handing things to my mom, and don't even get me started about my brother. Not that they criticize me, generally - usually with people my mom shows my poems to it's oo-ing and awww-ing, but I hate showing my work to people I know well. Maybe it's because they don't critique it.

Cheers,

lavendershy

[writewizard]

I usually don't get offended by critques unless they are highly sarcastic and intended to hurt, and even then I try and simply let them roll off my shoulders. However, that doesn't mean it always works...

[Coldwriter]

I hadn't had a story critiqued in over 6 years before posting a story on here. Someone who critiqued it proved that by her comments! haha....no..

It had been a long time and it was a jolt. After the initial sting, I got over it and am a better writer, but maybe more importantly, a more focused and challenged writer than i was before. I don't love harsh words, and I have found reviews to be respectful in their honesty for the most part. But I do relish the criticisms and things that might make me cringe because, as many of you have already mentioned, those words us better.

[FoxZero]

Hmmmm... I just recently got this from a few friends,

"It's pretty good so far. I haven't finished it yet though."

My response, "It's less than 3000 words and you read really fast."

I don't even know what to think of that. Either way I'm not sending them anything new, I haven't even mentioned the new flash fics I'm writing.

[fantasy girl]

When your friend says 'thats really good' or that's great' and gives it back, and then they moan at you when they ask you to help them with English Coursework and you give them a constructive critique

[DragonGrim]

People I know won’t give me negative feedback *sigh*

I’m forced to post random pieces of writing on the internet to get constructive criticism. And then sorting through what advice to embrace and what to discard is no easy task.

But every comment I get that is not praise stings with the unbearable pain of a thousand needles:D

[Irish87]

Let me preface this reply by admitting I did not read most of the comments, so if I am repeating somebody else... whoopsy-doodle.

Anyhow. What bothers me more between those two options? Well, let me go out on a limb here and admit that both suck out loud. I hate it when somebody reads my work and finds faults, why wouldn't I? I suppose I could be higher than thou and pretend it's awesome to have either a close friend or a complete stranger pick apart a piece of work that I love. Not only are you being judged, and being judged sucks, but you're being rejected. I'm sorry but when I ask somebody out on a date and they give me a laundry list of things I need to improve in order to pay for a dinner for them and try my hardest to entertain them I am immediately turned off. I know, I'm odd.

I know, I know, I must be immature and unable to deal with criticism... your damn right I am. I hate being judged and told by others my work is wrong or otherwise bad. However, I'm coming from the position of a writer who writes for the enjoyment of writing, not to appease my fan base - to which there is no one... except my mom. In fairness, I've never really tried to get my work published, it's something that is secondary. So I suppose that I am an unfair person to ask this question.

In the end I hate being criticized because I hate failing myself. As a writer, somebody who is absolutely addicted to the process of telling a good story, I am disheartened when I fail.

[nacht]

When somebody, anybody says "That's great." And gives me my writing back without anything constructive said. That's what hurts the most.

I agree, but I generally attribute this to those of my critics that don't generally know anything about writing or literature. Even though I was the kid in the back of English class drawing instead of reading, I knew exactly what we were doing, and how to do it. I could critique other peoples' writing, I could teach them how to read the subject, I could beat it into their head as long as I wanted -- they just wanted to get through the class. That's the kind of dote I usually deal with in these circumstances.

As for the question of what hurts the most, though... I would have to say when they refuse to do it due to either laziness or inability. "English, motherf*****, do you speak it?!" usually runs through my head at this point.

[RomanticRose]

[QUOTE=nacht;574003]I agree, but I generally attribute this to those of my critics that don't generally know anything about writing or literature. [QUOTE]

There are a lot of readers that don't know anything about writing or literature, but they know what they like. Do you know why you like your favorite flavor of ice cream (or potato chip, barbecue sauce, insert your own thing here)? "It's a fun read," or "It's boring/weird/whatever" can be just as constructive as five pages of writerbabble about main characters, POV, and plot holes, if you are willing to take it on board and run with it.

Just my tuppence

[Delphinus]

That which does not kill us makes us stronger, so definitely not getting any critique is much worse for me than excessively scathing critique.

[Postman]

I'm still in college and I have to write a considerable number scientific papers, especially research proposals. Although I'm only a beginner in my field I invest all the skills and knowledge (not to mention effort) I can into each piece. When I have polished the piece as much as I am capable of I submit it for review to my mentor who frequently points out places where I could make significant improvements. I find, however, that I learn so much more when "the best I have" is thoroughly inspected.

I joined this board because I write more personal stuff for myself as well. Although I put everything I have into my work, I want (and need) someone to point out places where I can improve so that the next piece will be that much better. Saying this I would have to agree with others that say that no review hurts more than anything else.

This thread has given me some food for thought and will undoubtedly help me write better reviews for others.

[Reaper]

I find that it hurts more in the long run if people aren't willing to give you criticism. Praise, although nice, doesn't improve my writing.

[WickedWriter]

I used to always let a friend of mine read my stories. Finally I realized that she just wanted to read them and was just going to praise them without giving any criticism. I told her I wanted her to critique and all she did was say that it was perfect.

And as we all know, our writing is never perfect. She was a sycophant. I stopped letting her "help" me.

I've learned that any criticism is more than enough to make me happy. If the person is left confused or bored with my writing, I need to know. Even if they're extremely picky; even if they're my friend and it embarrasses me.

[Brian]

When somebody, anybody says "That's great." And gives me my writing back without anything constructive said. That's what hurts the most.

That is what I dislike the most about giving my writing to my friends. No matter how good or bad, they'll always hand it back with a generic remark like "Sounds good" or "Interesting".

One of the reasons I signed up here was because I know that this is a place where people will truly give me constructive criticism.

[Aeschylus]

Definitely hearing criticism from a stranger. People you know well always have some sort of bias behind their opinions, and will always be somewhat influenced in one direction or another by what they know about you. I prefer to have people I don't know very well give me reviews; they are more likely to be honest. So their criticisms are more have more of an impact (which can be hurtful at times), their praises are much more encouraging, and their ideas more useful. Don't even get me started on having family members review stuff for you; it's beyond unhelpful.

[black-radish]

My boyfriend doesn't like what I write.. and that's sooo painfull :( I mean, not even constructive critisism, he doesnt like reading, and he doesnt like what I write.. everytime he reads something I wrote he'll be all akward about it if I ask for his opinion.. That really hurts..
Taking critcism of someone I don't really know doesn't bother me, I just look at it again and decide weather he/she was correct.

[Eternity]

@ Black Radish:

I understand it can be painful when you boyfriend cannot or will not read and/or comment on your writing... but I'd like to just say something on that point...(if I can give not-asked-for advice without sounding nosy or rude).

My Dad isn't a reader. Never has been. It has always been my Mum that will read my work; or my Aunty, or friends... Dad knows I write, and I'm sure he's proud of me in his special little way. But he's the sort of guy that's far more comfortable with things like engines, trucks, tractors, map-reading, etc etc. He's not up with the whole English, literature, debating and giving speeches... you know what I'm saying? I have had to learn that it's not anything personal, something to hurt my feelings. He just doesn't read my writing because... he doesn't read at all! Much. He's not comfortable with it, it's a different world for him. He's a mechanic and truck driver... I'm a writer... he's comfortable with where he's at... and I'm comfortable with where I'm at. I couldn't stand to be a mechanic or truck driver... he couldn't stand to be a speaker or a writer.

I think there's a good chance your BF simply can't comprehend the idea that you want him to read and discuss your writing. It's probably way out of his "comfort zone," does that make sense?

Just to take the thread a little off topic. :p Sorry.

[Lankin]

I actually don't show everything I write to my parents -- Just the stuff I feel they can relate to in any way. Usually I'm getting feedback I can really make something out of.
What I find is that the opinion of most friends is close to no use at all.

The feedbacks roughly fit the following categories:
a) I want to know what hair-color your mc has!
b) yea, nice.
c) just couldn't take my time yet to read it.

Sometimes hard to not take it personal :)

[bigSQUISHY76]

I haven’t seen it directly mentioned but it does appear that people confuse and editor and a critic.

In my most humble opinion I think that the writer should be asking for specific types of feedback when they post something for review. If you just put something out there and say “tell me what you think” you may get many responses but non that really helps you in your quest to improve or polish what you have.

If you want some one to proof what you have, basically check for spelling, punctuation, grammar and context flow you may want to post that this is the type of review you would like.

Here are just a few questions I (personally) would ask if I was submitting something for review.

These are just clarifying examples not a comprehensive list:

Does it flow well?
Is the story/topic maintaining a consistent direction?
Are characters believable?
Are descriptions detailed enough or too much?
Should there be more supporting or historical information about a character, place or event?
What was your favorite character, event, etc...? And Why?
What character did you not like or believe and why?
What was the best quality about this piece and what made it appealing?
What was the worst quality of this piece? Why?
How would you correct or improve (specific area in question)?


I could go on and on with basic questions but I am sure you would get the point. If you are here solely to get help just for your submissions keep in mind that you may learn more from reviewing someone else’s work that correcting your own.



So there is my Opinion and suggestions. I hope this puts the ideas in your head so you can get the kind of specific help you are looking for.


V/R

BS76

[Cogito]

You're presuming that the writer knows what his or her weak areas are.

Often, when a writer says, "Please tell me about this and this," it is followed with something like, "I don't want to hear about my spelling or grammar. This is a rough draft."

Better to let the critiquer point out what stands out to him or her. My advice to the writer is, "If you don't want to hear about spelling or grammar, fix it before you present it. If you can't, the rest won't matter, because the poor grammar is what stands out."

If you know you have a weak area, work on it. But if no one comments on it, perhaps there are other things you need to focus on first. Maybe your perceived problem isn't even really an issue at all.

Don't pre-bias the critiquer. You learn more if you open your mind and don't try to orchestrate the critiques.

[bigSQUISHY76]

Cogito

I see what you are saying and I agree for the most part, however, if you are not getting anyone to review your work you may want to throw that carrot out there. It doesn't mean that you are only requesting input on that area but I feel that if you are expecting everyone to give you a review that contains enough beef to make a meal you might what to take it and split it into several courses. At the very least wait for the general initial review and then pump them for specifics related to their comments, or if you worked particularly hard on a specific area or part and it was not mentioned it is most likely going to weigh on your thoughts and then shoot the questions. Getting something is almost always better than getting nothing LOL.


V/R
BS76

We all want to help and be helped but many people seem to do better with some direction even if it is not detailed or entirely specified. Example “look how many people use this forum??

But yes there are going to be many different takes on what to expect and how to get the quality you are looking or hoping for, so take it all in see what applies and adjust accordingly.

[hyperspace!]

I love critisism, constructive or otherwise. The only thing that bugs me is the simple "It's good."

At least "This sucks" tells me I've gotta work on it more.

[Joules03]

I have only had friends or family read my writing - for some reason I have an easier time with this than a complete stranger. One day I'll work up the nerve to post something here. One of my closest friends just read my latest revision, and she had a lot of helpful feedback when I talked to her in person, but when I actually read her notes, I was thinking - oh OUCH. She herself is not a writer and had a hard time being more sensitive with the written word. That's the main thing - just be sensitive to my feelings, and you can say whatever you want. Well, not whatever you want, but I'll be more open to it :)

[Arclite]

I'm mainly a scientific writer, so I've learn to handle criticism very quickly. It wasn't something which came easy, but the sooner you learn to deal with it, the sooner you're able to understand that its a process which needs to be undertaken.

In most of my experiences if a critique is well written and thorough then it doesn't hurt at all, its simply a process which is necessary for the improvement of both your current body of work and your overall improvement as a writer.

In saying this, the most hilarious critique I ever experienced was at a large scientific conference in Melbourne, a debate which constantly polarizes my particular field ended in a 60 year old man throwing his papers across the room in disgust at the topic presented, after he had spent the better part of 20 minutes telling us about his thoughts on what made the research which had prompted the discussion invalid, only for a younger man to throw them back at him, knocking him to the ground in turn knocking the elder gentleman out, this is the only situation where a critique should hurt.

[SchalaofZeal]

I personally hate it when I someone reads my works -- especially professionals. Not only are they looking for grammatical errors, they're judging the works based on creativity and originality. However, I don't think I would have developed into a better writer if it weren't for the fact that I DID receive the direct criticism. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet.

[SilverWolf0101]

I myself have never had that much of a problem with criticism. True there were times when it wasn't what I wanted to hear. Either way though it never hurt me. The one time it did hurt me though was when one of the people who reviewed my writing grabbed up my work and tore it straight down the middle. They never said why, never gave any hint that they had plans to do so, they merely tore it in two.

I have to say that's what hurt the most when it came to reviews. I later found out from that person that the reason they tore it in two was because they found it to be rediculous and quite horrible. I would have rather they said it to my face instead of ripping up almost two years of hard work.

[basefare]

Showing your work to close family and friends, in my opinion, is a no no. Oft times, family and friends, while they mean well, are not qualified to critique. You're more likely to come out of the experience wishing you hadn't shown it to them or throwing away the work. Even some forums use Anon 1, anon 2 and so on so no one will have an inkling who critiqued your work. Of course, I recognize different strokes for different folks and realize you may very well not agree with me.

[solarstarrkatt]

What hurts the most, the age old question...
1-The destructive-constructive criticism. For example:

User1: Story, story, story.
User2: Okay, I can't get into this. Grammar and spelling mistakes here. Imagery mistakes here. Character flaws here. Don't get your hopes down, dear!
-This mostly hurt because it was 2 AM and I was listening to Attack on a loop. Not here though. It was a different forum.

2- The advertisement... dun dun dun!

User3: this is good! i could get into this! Check out my story, called Night of the Lovers.
User1: Okay! -checks and comments- Update, update, update (On my old forum we had long-short stories we updated in chapters)
User1: Bump?
User1: update, update.
Three weeks later-
User7: No more? Why?

[Nikhil]

I have never posted my work for review yet so I have no experience.

[Brandon_Trotter]

To me critiqing is not hurtful, just so long as it is constructive critiqing. I try to learn from the critiqing I recieve. Although to be honest there are times I try to ignore some comments that I do not like. Especaily, if I am happy with what I wrote and the critiquer is being very nit-picky. But, the majority of time I listen whole heartedly to what ever the critiquers sugest. I think critiquing is best from a stanger just so long as their knowledgable. I belive that if you do not know the person realy well and they are critiqing your work they are more likely to tear your work to shread ( if it desveres that ) than a freind who may be concerend for your feelings.