Reluctance to Critique

[Trakaias]

I have been reluctant to go into the Review rooms and critique because I have been intimidated by the requirement to spot weaknesses and to know why something works in my critique: http://www.writingforums.org/showthread.php?p=408268#post408268

But I am not an editor. I don't know much about grammar, I can't tell a person why a sentence doesn't work right because I don't know. I don't know why something doesn't work and I have never felt like I should be the one to say what works or what doesn't because I'm not qualified to say. And I have never read a book like that (published or not).

This is what I can offer:

If I read it and like it, I can say I really liked this and why I liked it. Since I only read what I like and it's easy for me to say what I liked and why, and since most readers that I know read like that. I get nervous about saying why I didn't like it and why because its an opinion and most of the time it's not even my genre and so I only read what I like.

I can't say it doesn't flow here, you put the : in the wrong place, or all these adjectives take from the story, or your pace is too slow, this is how to make it better. Because I don't know! And if I knew I would be doing that for my own stories!

The point of this is. Will it still matter if I give Critique's and they're not about where it was weak, and what made it flow or not flow? Just about what I liked and why as a reader not an editor or anything close but as a reader who appreciates writing that attracts me or draws me in?

[Cogito]

It most certainly does matter.

The point of the Review Room critiquing workshop is to develop those skills. Not because we expect you to join the submissions editor staff of a major publisher, but because self-critique is an important part of the revision process. You cannot rely on someone else to correct your grammar and word usage, your punctuation, and your spelling. You can't couint on someone else to spot infodumping or lackluster dialogue. You can't expect someone else to point out rambling descriptions that destroy the pace of the story, or marathon sentences that wander all over te lanscape and never come to a point.

So yes, it matters a great deal. If you don't already possess decent critiquing skills, it's about time you learn them. You will need them, and they will serve you well.

See also: Why Write Reviews Before Posting My Work? (http://www.writingforums.org/showthread.php?t=4705)

[Trakaias]

Well that's the point! I don't ask for reviews so that someone can help me with grammar, I don't expect that sort of help from anyone except someone who is qualified and has a degree in it.

When I ask for critique/reviews it's because I want to know what the reader feels and why.

I am not frustrated at all that I can't immediately post my story. I am frustrated because it sounds like you expect me to point out things that I don't care about as a writer/reader. I can't give what I don't have but I think that what I do have to give isn't useless/worthless and that critique doesn't have to be focused on what's weak.

My method has never been to rip up someones work. But to listen to the story and if I enjoy it I can tell you why, and if I don't well I generally don't reply if I don't unless I like the story but it's written in a tense that takes away from it.

[Rei]

If that's what you want in a review, other people will want it, too. You'll get a lot of people who claim that saying what you liked about a piece is a bad idea, but it's actually a very good thing to do. It is possible to teach and encourage positive/desired skills, not make a point of correcting negative ones, and still see the negative/unwanted behaviours and habits to disappear. Also, think about this. What is easier, thinking about how to get something right, or thinking about how not to get something wrong? I avoid overtly pointing out mistakes for just that reason, unless it's something to do with grammar.

When it comes to things that you genuinely dislike, you should still reply. We don't always like to read those reviews about our work, but we need them. We still need to know why someone doesn't like something or thinks something is done poorly even if they don't have suggestions for improvement or it's a simple personal response.

[ManhattanMss]

I have been reluctant to go into the Review rooms and critique because I have been intimidated by the requirement to spot weaknesses and to know why something works in my critique: http://www.writingforums.org/showthread.php?p=408268#post408268

But I am not an editor. I don't know much about grammar, I can't tell a person why a sentence doesn't work right because I don't know. I don't know why something doesn't work and I have never felt like I should be the one to say what works or what doesn't because I'm not qualified to say. And I have never read a book like that (published or not).

This is what I can offer:

If I read it and like it, I can say I really liked this and why I liked it. Since I only read what I like and it's easy for me to say what I liked and why, and since most readers that I know read like that. I get nervous about saying why I didn't like it and why because its an opinion and most of the time it's not even my genre and so I only read what I like.

I can't say it doesn't flow here, you put the : in the wrong place, or all these adjectives take from the story, or your pace is too slow, this is how to make it better. Because I don't know! And if I knew I would be doing that for my own stories!

The point of this is. Will it still matter if I give Critique's and they're not about where it was weak, and what made it flow or not flow? Just about what I liked and why as a reader not an editor or anything close but as a reader who appreciates writing that attracts me or draws me in?


First, I admire your honesty. And second, you should know that it's not necessarily an easy thing to know and convey what it is exactly that does make something work. So, if you can identify it, your reviews should be golden!

Editing is great for stories that are about to be submitted, in order to avoid embarrassing errors and to tweak things by considering opinions (which will vary) about word, punctuation, storyline, and structural choices. But, I know many writers (and I'm one of 'em) who find non-editing feedback more usefully insightful than anything. A reader who can tell me what it was about my piece that he or she found interesting and where in the story he or she lost interest or stumbled over something is invaluable to me.

That said, writers seek out different kinds of feedback, and the reviewer doesn't always (or even usually) know what it is that the writer is seeking. In fact, the writer is sometimes looking for something reviewers aren't going to be able to deliver anyway--sometimes for reasons having to do with issues the writer hasn't even considered and may not want to consider at all. e.g., A writer might want to find out if his character matches some particular qualities, while the reader, in fact, is simply not engaged with the character, the story, or the writing, to begin with and so can't really say if the character matches those qualities, because the reading experience just isn't compelling enough to care if the character posesses one attribute or another.

I don't know any reason to stretch to supply a writer with input that's irrelevant to how the story is actually read. A review that doesn't reflect some genuine reader reaction--good, bad, or ugly--will distort the reality of how the story reads, in some way. And if the reader's genuine reaction isn't clear to the writer, the takeway can be very misleading. My feeling is this: (1) learn something yourself from writing the review; (2) call it as you read it; and (3) trust the writer to make up his own mind. Finally, if you can't do all three, then consider carefully whether you think the review has any beneficial reason to be delivered to the writer at all.

[Cogito]

Regardless, the Review Room is a workshop on constructive critique, and only participants in the workshop are given the privilege to post there. The workshop's purpose is to improve the writing ability of every participant, by making him or her knowledgeable about what makes the writing effective or not.

If you only want to post your writing for appreciation, or a static rating that only attempts to measure quality without regard to how to improve it, then you can post on your member blog.

This isn't a site to publish and promote your writing. It's a site for those who are serious about becoming better writers, irrespective of their current writing ability.

[Trakaias]

Cogito you keep circling this back around to 'my' writing. It's somewhat understandable except that this was about how I felt about critiquing and why I felt reluctant to post critiques here. You're making assumptions that I don't care about how to improve my work based on my concerns about critiquing and what I value as a way to improve. But again when I posted this, it wasn't about 'my' work, it was about how I felt reluctance to give a fellow writer my own critique.

Molly:
You are right when I reread my post I noticed I said easy, and I was thinking about how to explain one of my favourite novels and what made it mesmerizing for me and even if there were any parts that brought me down and I realized it takes time to read and then figure out. When I said easy I meant it comes naturally to me and it is one I am qualified to give.

And thanks Rei that really helped to hear as well. It was heartwarming and less discouraging both of your words.

Overall in regards to critiquing here, I expressed my reluctance and my reluctance was validated at least for this site which is fine. I just am surprised that it limits what kind of critique you can receive assuming that only the one kind will make a better most serious writer.

[Wreybies]

There are many kinds of critiques.

We all have our strengths and our areas of opportunity in our own work.

Not all of us are grammar gurus. That is perfectly fine. We have members at this forum from all over the world, not all of whom are native speakers of English and versed in the finer points of syntax and grammar.

This does not mean that they do not have something of value to offer in the way of a critique of the general work, how the work made them feel, the imagery it brought to mind, the emotions it evoked, the color, the tone, the general ambiance of the piece.

In fact I am overjoyed to have points of view that come from different cultures to give me fresh perspective.

I consider it a privilege to get their critiques.

Anyway, all of these things are immensely valuable!!

Do not be intimidated when you see critiques that focus on the nut & bolts mechanics of a piece of writing. Often these types of critiques never get into the real meat of the work, the true essence of what was written. Honestly, those kinds of critiques are really a copy edit and really a critique in my opinion, tho I must admit i have written my fair share of those kinds of critiques when I was less confident in giving my opinion about what the author had presented. I focused on the grammar where I felt that I was in my comfort zone.

Now when I review a piece, I often forgo the grammar (unless it is really bad) and just let the author know there is some cleanup that is required and then go onto what the piece meant to me.

[Cogito]

Trakaias, whatever your feelings about giving that kind of critique, it is what the Review Room is about.

It's like signing up for an oil painting class, then objecting that you would rather be working with pastels.

Perhaps it's because you didn't realize it was an oil painting class when you walked in. But the hard fact is, 90% of the people who rush straight to the Review Room are thinking one thing: I want to post up my writing and have people tell me it's great. Some will hide it behind "Tell me how much it sucks," but either way, they have no interest in finding out what the Review Room is really for, and in fact simply assume the site exists for people to display their writing.

I will pose this: Ratings are useless. Most ratings are heavily colored by what kind of writing that reader personally prefers. If the reader likes vampire romances, the most poorly-written bloody romp will get high praise, but a perfectly plotted suspense tale with brilliant characterization will receive a lukewarm response. Furthermore, a rating treats a piece of writing as final. If it has severe flaws, it's doomed, even if those flaws are easily corrected.

No one is stopping members from posting praise, and in fact some kinds of specific phrase is considered constructive. But gushing compliments and vague recommendations don't really help the writer improve, so they don't count as participation in the workshop.

Praise and appreciation, combined with recommendations, is the best of both worlds. You encourage the writer, and help him or her improve as well.

But if you really have no interest in taking part in the kind of critique the workshop focuses upon, the solution is simple: don't participate. You just have to accept that posting your writing there is contingent on participating.

You can always post your writining in your member blog instead.

[Rei]

Cog, you're making assumptions about her wanting to post her own work, and she has not once mentioned that she wants to post her own stuff. That is not fair.

[Destin]

If you ask me, which you might not be, but you're getting my 2 cents anyway, I PREFER to know what parts of my story drew you in or what you liked from a reader's perspective. I am writing for readers; not to hob-nob with other literary types.

But on the flip side, hearing "I liked it good story," provides absolutely no benefit what so ever.

Just be specific in what you really liked, and not a general over-all kind of thing.
A few examples:
(Description A) was really good. I really felt like I could feel the train rolling down the tracks.
(Character B) I could really relate to this character. He had a good voice that I could imagine in my mind.
(Plot X) That was the worst story line I've ever read. There wasn't really any conflict to keep me interested.

Those kinds of things I think, as a writer, give me the most insight as to what I'm doing right or wrong.

Take some time and read around the net on the nuts and bolts of writing. Then, when you start noticing some of those things in other people's work, you can point them out.

If I were you I'd start with the posts in Cogito's blog(linked in his signature) and work your way out from there. They are a good starting point and introduce some of the basics.

[Cogito]

Cog, you're making assumptions about her wanting to post her own work, and she has not once mentioned that she wants to post her own stuff. That is not fair.Sorry, but I already addressed that:
No one is stopping members from posting praise, and in fact some kinds of specific phrase is considered constructive. But gushing compliments and vague recommendations don't really help the writer improve, so they don't count as participation in the workshop.

We don't go in and remove reviews that don't meet the criteria for constructive critique. But only constructive critiques count toward the minimum requirements if someone want to post their own work.

The requirements do not apply if someone has no intention of posting their own writing.

[bluebell80]

I can't say it doesn't flow here, you put the : in the wrong place, or all these adjectives take from the story, or your pace is too slow, this is how to make it better. Because I don't know! And if I knew I would be doing that for my own stories!



Well, IMO, this would make you a beginning stage writer. A writer who has not gotten to a point in learning the CRAFT of writing to be able to critically think about how each sentence works as a part of the whole paragraph, how each paragraph works as part of a whole piece.

Flow, pacing, character development, plot lines, conflict/drama/resolution and all the things that make a story a good story are things as a writer that you need to learn how to identify, how to tear it apart, and how to fix it. That is what the Review Room is really for. To practice without judgment for both the writer and the critiquing writer.

While as of late I haven't made it into the Review Room due to life stuff, I do like to help out my fellow writers with some things I see that could be improved, while at the same time helping my own writing skills by being able to identify things that pose a problem in writing.

Spelling and Grammar, well, sure not all of us are experts here. But with more practice every writer slowly becomes better at SPaG. Sometimes being a creative type of person can also make memorizing things with spelling and grammar more difficult, since memorization is a right brain activity and creativity is a left brain activity. Sometimes left brainers aren't so good at memorizing things like that. That's why there are plenty of editors out there who aren't that good at writing creative stories, but are excellent editors/readers.

Maybe instead of posting your critiques all the time, if you aren't feeling comfortable with responses you might get, you could read through someone's story, or posting, and write the critique in a word doc just for you. Work on identifying problem areas, things that you think don't work. Then compare your personal critique with those posted by others.

Also reading other's critiques of postings help a lot too. You can see how other people view something, see why they think something didn't flow and if you agree/disagree with their opinion.

Being able to see problems is a very essential part of being a writer. Not just seeing it in others writings, but to be able to see it in your own. You can't expect to improve your skills of crafting a story if you don't know how to tear it apart and point out what works and what doesn't. Those are some of the basics of being able to write.

And to worry that you may offend the recipient of the critique...well sometimes it happens, because you can't please everyone. Some people aren't hardened enough to take constructive criticism, where others will thank you for your effort in the critique and use some of what you said to improve their writing.

Just saying "I liked it." or "I couldn't read this." isn't going to help you or the writer. Being able to say WHY you liked it or didn't will help you both. By exploring the WHY is where you find the elements that make good writing possible.

[FoxZero]

Bluebell makes a great point about reading other people's critiques. I wasn't sure how to go about it either, but after reading different articles on good critiquing and reading other people's critiques, I feel I have the hang of it. And I'm starting to notice my mistakes a bit better too, but the ones I miss my fellow critique can assist me with :)

[StrangerWithNoName]

Sorry, but I already addressed that:

We don't go in and remove reviews that don't meet the criteria for constructive critique. But only constructive critiques count toward the minimum requirements if someone want to post their own work.

The requirements do not apply if someone has no intention of posting their own writing.


I've the same problem the OP has with criticism...as a matter of fact english is not even my native language, therefore I don't feel confortable with the idea of telling native speakers how they should write in their own language.

So far all I did was to post some comments on the stories, and ask questions about their developments , is that considered "constructive criticism" as well?

[Cogito]

Sorry, but no. The one critique you have posted to date doesn't come close. This is what we expect: Constructive Critiques (http://www.writingforums.org/showthread.php?p=408268#post408268)

[Rei]

Sorry, but I already addressed that:

We don't go in and remove reviews that don't meet the criteria for constructive critique. But only constructive critiques count toward the minimum requirements if someone want to post their own work.

The requirements do not apply if someone has no intention of posting their own writing.
Where has she said that she wants to post her own writing?

[Leaka]

As someone was saying beforehand there are other types of reviews. You do not have to be a reviewer of grammar and spelling. The SPAG reviewer. You could be a different kind of reviewer.
I know I pretend to be the audience and give out critique as if I were an audience reviewing a piece of work. I tell them whether the plot is okay, the setting is good, did I like the characters. Then I take on my writing perspective of it and tell them how it could work.
You don't have to be a SPAG reviewer, you can be an Audience Reviewer, or Setting Reviewer, etc.
Don't be intimidated. Find your niche of reviewing and go for it.

[hoodwinked]

I agree with Leaka.

Have you ever watched one of those cooking shows? Like, Iron Chef?

The chefs cook up this huge fancy dinner, and then the judges taste everything and tell the chefs what they think.

"This is wonderful. I love the blend of (fancy spice) with the (special wine). It's a nice contrast with the (sweet dish)."

"This is horrible. The (meat-I've-never-heard-of) is too bland because the (insert oil) was (something). And the use of the (herb) is amateur because it creates a bitter taste when combined with the (some juice)."

Now, here at home, my dad's the chef. He doesn't cook such fancy dishes, but he asks us if we like them or not. We say yes, or no... but that doesn't satisfy him. He has to know if it's dry, or if we don't like the cranberry juice he marinated the pot roast with...

Me and my mom, we're not those fancy judges and can't tear apart the dish and tell him exactly what makes a dish the best or not. But, we can tell Dad that we don't like his pea soup because the peas are too hard. Next time, he'll know to... do what ever it is to make the peas softer...

My point is--like everyone else has said--you don't have to be an expert. If I post something, and you simply tell me you liked my characters because they acted real, but hated my plot because it's unrealistic and all over the place... I would be fine with that. I would know that what I got going for my characters is good, but that, when I rewrite, I need to pay attention to where my plot is going.

Good luck, and don't be afraid to review; if you're trying hard to help, who will complain?

[Cogito]

Those kinds of reviews have their place. Their place is in advising consumers whether or not a finished project is worth plunking down their hard-earned cash for.

But that is NOT the kind of critique that the Review Room workshop is about.

The Review Room is for constructive critique that helps the writer improve his or her writing.

It doesn't have to be correcting grammar or spelling. In fact, we truly hope that the writer will correct such things before posting a draft for critique. Your comments can then be about the quality of dialogue, or confusing sentences, or over/under-description is specific paragraphs or verses. They can be about consistency or richness of characters. Once the writer is proficient in avoiding simple SPaG errors, the critiquing can be fun and challenging, getting into the more subtle aspects of writing.

Every piece of writing can be improved. And developing that skill is what the Review Room exists for.

If you want to give consumer reviews, you can. Just don't expect them to be credited toward the participation requirement for the workshop.

The Review Room is for constructive critique that helps the writer improve his or her writing.

[bluebell80]

^^^ I agree with Cog, and that was what I was trying to say as well. If the writer is putting their best foot forward, they will have already corrected, to their best ability, the simple SPaG issues. We all have times when we misplace a comma, or misuse or mistype a word and may not have seen it in our proofreading. But when the story starts out with a disclaimer of " I know the spelling and grammar is horrible, but please tell me how you like the story." I usually don't read them, because I know a writer that is putting a disclaimer up like that isn't probably ready for a real critique.

Even if a story doesn't come with a disclaimer, but within the first two paragraphs is riddled with spelling errors and grammar mishaps, I know the writer wasn't trying their best and probably will just end up angry with any critique that isn't praising them as the next great writer. I've seen plenty of postings on here from people who just hope to have their egos pet. Then they get all sorts of bent out of shape by critiques that point out their obvious mistakes. I don't critique these types anymore either.

I am actually really, really picky on who I critique. I'm not going to spend two hours reading through someone's posting to really digest it, note what does and doesn't work, then post up a thorough critique. I'm not going to waste my time on someone who just wants an ego petting. I'll donate my time to someone who truly wants to learn, to have a discussion on why they disagree with my views or why they agree.

When I see that the writer hasn't even put in the slightest effort in proofreading, then I know it's not worth wasting my time. Thus I don't critique those.

I agree with Cog that customer style reviews are next to worthless in the review room. They don't help either person and provide nothing to the dialog of the craft of writing.

Writing is a skill, a learned craft. It's not something most people are born with as an innate ability. Much like most singers who, even with born talent to sing on key, they still use vocal coaches to improve range and pitch. A person might be born with the ability to spin a good tale, but they still have to learn to form it into a readable story. That is a learned skill, not an inborn one.

If you want to be a real writer, one who actually gets published, then you have to learn the craft of writing. While the story is an important element, the writing is the most important part. A story idea can be the best ever thought of, but if the writing is poor it will end up tossed in the slush pile to collect dust. A not so great story, if the writing is excellent, poses more of a chance to get published, because the writing is the most important part.

Thus, the Review Room is meant to help develop all aspects of the Craft of writing. The ability to write logically, creatively, with good flow, pacing, character development, and even choice of wording all come before the actual story itself. The story itself is the secondary part of the critique process. So if you are uncomfortable with the critiquing the writing part, you should save your reviews for Amazon and Barns and Nobles, and not bother in the Review Room.

[Leaka]

Well see sometimes when I put a work up for reviewer, it's I need something other then SPAG. We become teachers when all we focus on is the SPAG issues of a piece of writing and it appears to be the semi-common thing in the review room. But me as I writer when I reread my stuff over and over again I can already tell my SPAG issues and go immediately to correcting it.

Sometimes the Review Room requires a different kind of reviewer for each sort of level of writing. Someone who has been doing it a long time, may already know their SPAG after rereading...so shouldn't we assume that is the case and work and form on other bits of their writing?
Someone who has been doing less then everyone else who may not know their SPAG issues, they are what we should be focusing SPAG reviews on.

I assume that someone who has been writing for a long time, already knows their SPAG. Sometimes I'll point something out, if it's extremely blaring. But for the most part I think a review should focus on all bits of writing.

People have different method of writings and different methods of writing style. So a reviewer should also have the same qualities as the writers, reviewing with different methods for each writing style and level.

[Cogito]

Leaka, if you understand your SPaG issues, then you should fix them before posting if you don't want them commented on.

If you expect to be a writer, you cannot ignore SPaG, nor should you expect a reviewer to ignore them. A submissions editor certainly wouldn't.

But this thread is about what kinds of critiques are appropriate to qualify for the critiquing requirement. If a writer posts a piece of writing riddled with SPaG problems, it is certainly appropriate for a critiquer to assume that the writer needs help in that area.

[Leaka]

Leaka, if you understand your SPaG issues, then you should fix them before posting if you don't want them commented on.

If you expect to be a writer, you cannot ignore SPaG, nor should you expect a reviewer to ignore them. A submissions editor certainly wouldn't.

But this thread is about what kinds of critiques are appropriate to qualify for the critiquing requirement. If a writer posts a piece of writing riddled with SPaG problems, it is certainly appropriate for a critiquer to assume that the writer needs help in that area.

To catch your SPAG. You have to reread your work. What you fixed earlier may actually not sound the same.
Editing process takes many looks from yourself. I want just more then SPAG help Cogito.

[Cogito]

Then reread your work! You are asking people to take the time to critique your writing, and you can't take the time to proofread it first? Really, now!

And for the last time, that is not the topic of this thread.

[Destin]

It looks like everybody is getting worked up over everyone else's misunderstandings. I think we can all agree that a great story is made up of alot of things. To list a few:
Plot
Characters
Descriptions
Language
SPaG
Pacing
Flow
Theme
Formatting
Dialogue
Style

There are others, but I think it would be safe to assume that ANY piece of this list should be adequate for review as long as the review meets the criteria laid out in the contructive review rules. And they are:

Constructive critique is specific. Vague suggestions like "Fix spelling and grammar errors" ate inadequate.

Constructive critique indicates why a change should or should not be made. Simply rewriting a sentence or two as you would express it isn't critique. It's vanity, unless you can offer a reason for making the change. Similarly, just saying you like some paragraph or verse isn't constructive unless you can say why the passage is superior and should not be changed.

Ideally, constructive critique should suggest possible solutions to perceived weaknesses. This is where diligent critiquing really pays off for the critic. If you can see a problem and a solution in someone else's writing, you can do the same in your own.

So as long as a person follows those 3 main points, they should be able to touch on any of the elements of writing.

I think we're all saying the same thing here but we're just tied up in one of those infinite misunderstandings. It's true that writers need to learn the craft and critiquing is a great way to do it. But not everyone is an expert on SPaG, not everyone is an expert on flow and pacing. It's experience and knowledge that enable us to control the finest points of the writing craft. Those of us who are less familiar with these finer points, I think, should still be acknowledged as providing constructive review, given they follow the 3 pointers.

I think what Leaka is saying is that he is fairly confident in his SPaG and he doesn't really want a review on SPaG because he knows his stuff is good. He isn't going to put up some hack piece of work littered with SPaG errors and say, "Just ignore my crappy spelling and review everything else." The problem is he puts up a piece with fairly solid SPaG and gets a review from somebody on SPaG when there are only 3 or 4 minor changes to be made.

Now should that count as a more complete review than a person who goes through and analyzes the realism of his characters, the quality of his plot, and the consistency of his language? Of course not. And I already know that isn't the case because my reviews which have included those things have passed the test before.

If I'm wrong, please let me know so I can stop wasting my time. I feel the reviews I've been providing have been constructive and helpful. Maybe they don't touch on pacing and flow every time because I feel the author isn't at that point where they need to worry about it. Maybe I think the SPaG is good enough that I don't need to worry about it.

Every story needs something different. We can only improve on what isn't perfect already, and we can't turn every story into a masterpiece.

[garmar69]

But this thread is about what kinds of critiques are appropriate to qualify for the critiquing requirement. If a writer posts a piece of writing riddled with SPaG problems, it is certainly appropriate for a critiquer to assume that the writer needs help in that area.
To me, any critique that goes in-depth into an issue is helpful. If someone notices that I'm forgetting to place a comma before a direct address, or just am not aware I'm doing it wrong, and explains what I'm doing wrong and why, I think that's great. If they go into more reader subjective issues like originality, pacing, characterization, and explain exactly why it didn't work for them, ditto.

It surprises me that so many get aggravated over someone trying to help with the foundation of good writing--SPaG.

This all falls back to taking what you want from a critique and let the staff decide if that person has fulfilled their requirement for posting their own work. Some people just want to hear that their story is the next coming of The Great American Novel and this helps them.

Such reviews just won't carry either person very far in the workshop.

[Unsavory]

I think what a lot of people are afraid of in regard to their first review is the possibility that they might mislead people into writing something worse. It's normal to have a lack of confidence in your own ability as a reviewer at first, but your review isn't singlehandedly going to wreck a person's piece. Make an effort and you'll get better and better both by gaining some confidence and by reading the reviews of others.

This might be unpopular to say, but I do believe that being reviewed for the first time helped me MUCH more than writing my first reviews. My first reviews were horribly flawed, short, and uneducated. Being reviewed for the first time showed me what was wrong with my work and I could project what I had learned and build upon that through more exposure to the site. Getting reviewed for the first time though was my launching point. I didn't know enough beforehand to really say much.

[garmar69]

You make a good point about the fear involved in a first review. I found that doing reviews improved my work a lot more than receiving them, even though I was scared I would screw up. I probably did 15-20 here before I even wrote my first story last year. What helped the most was the study involved to make sure I was giving accurate information. Which is the whole point of learning to become a competent reviewer, because one day you'll have to do the entire process yourself with limited social interaction before shipping it off to a publisher.

I know to some it doesn't seem like helping someone else on their work is advancing your own, but it works if you trust the process. To be honest, the reviews I received publicly helped me very little--with a few exceptions, of course. It was the time spent critically thinking about others' work and private help that helped me the most.

[Rocker]

Well, I completed my first critique. I feel unqualified to offer input, but I did so anyway. Did I write anything useful or do harm? Honestly, I need someone to write a critique on my critique to learn how to offer helpful input! And if someone did this, would that count as a credit or merely a passing observation?

Look, I am a musician of 30 years. I can offer feedback on that subject as a professional. I can express myself in this medium quite well, too. If you want some constructive feedback on playing the bass guitar, music in general, I am your man! However, I am not a writer, so I resent being asked... required... to offer input on something I know so little about.

I am visiting this forum to receive feedback from the educated writers and teachers, so that I might one day voluntarily offer a keen eye to others. My friends are not writers, so I surf the cyber-space to find such a forum only to learn I must be a qualified writer/educator to participate- this is a bit of a catch .22.

If the issue is that there are not enough writers offering feedback to each other perhaps you might contact a few universities, encourage the Dean of an English major program to have students do practicum work here as a part of their training?

Matt

PS I don't feel all warm and toasty about participating in this forum, but I will give it a chance.

[Cogito]

Rocker,

Your critique for "Wish you were here" was fine. In general, only the Reviewers on the site should be critiquing critiques. Other members should review the piece of writing presented by the thread starter.

The more you critique, the more confidence you will develop in your ability to offer constructive suggestions. You'll probably make some poor calls, but that's part of learning. The writers are learning too: How to offer the writing without pre-biasing the critics, how to accept critique in a way that teams with critics to root out the real problems (which may not be exactly what the critic pinpointed), and how to filter out the suggestions that won;t improve the writing.

All this is far more important and helpful than the actual suggestions you receive on your submitted writing. The more you critique, the more you read other critique, and the more you look at the revisions made in response to suggestions, the better handle you will have on picking out problems in your own or someone else's writing.

[jlauren]

OK, I have read through all of these posts and I feel slightly annoyed. I agree with both sides of the arguement, but I need to ask something of those people who say, "I don't feel adequate to offer a critique."

DO YOU READ BOOKS?

It really doesn't take much effort to critique someone's work if you are a reader yourself. You're going to know instantly when something doesn't work or sounds wrong. Think about it - you don't need to be an expert in writing. It's easy to assess whether a piece flows well, or is too bland, rigid, confusing etc. Every critique is going to be in your opinion anyway. If you are not sure about the advice you're giving when it comes to technicalities, then say so! You can only offer what you have.

Yes, it feels good to have someone say, "Oh my God! You're piece was amazing!" And there are times when you don't care about your sentence structure or poor choice of words, you just need someone to boost your confidence and give you a bit of focus to keep going. There's nothing wrong with that. We all need encouragement in our gift. But there are also times when it's helpful to have someone tell you, "This piece was good, but..."

So what's the solution? Maybe, when critiquing a piece, we should try to give just as much positive feedback as negative. If the piece was rubbish, say so and say why. But remember, unless you encourage the writer to keep going, they may just quit before their breakthrough.

And when it comes to SPAG, if you see errors, then comment. If not, don't feel like you need to sift through the piece and look for them. It doesn't take much more than a bit of common sense to give a worth-while critique. I've read through critiques where the poster only offered corrections on facts in the story, becasue they knew first-hand. That's helpful, right?

When I'm being critiqued, I don't automatically take everyone's advice as truth. I don't care if you say you are a published writer. At the end of the day, I will take your advice if I feel it's right for me. I compare advice to books I've read, and things I've been taught.

So I think everyone needs to take a chill pill and remember that we are all in the same boat here - we're writer's on a quest to make ourselves a little better.

[Rocker]

I'll work on my self-confidence in terms of writing.

Yes, I do read and have many subjective opinions, but that doesn't mean I'd like to write about them. Again, I do not feel qualified to the point to which I might be helpful. So, I'll give it a shot anyway, with the hope someone competent might review my own writing and offer desperately needed feedback.

[Destin]

Consider this:

You only need to put up 2 reviews and you will RARELY get less than 10 reviews back.

Looks like a fair trade to me!

Start by reviewing the stuff you feel confident about. As you read reviews and do more reviews, you will feel confident reviewing other aspects.

[garmar69]

@ Rocker. I looked at the work you posted and given the quality of what I saw there I would say you have a lot more to offer than you think. It's as simple as expanding on your observations.

Good review: I liked this story. Or I had an issue with the plot, pacing, SPaG, etc. And then explain why you had an issue or liked the story and give your opinion of how to improve what you found. Every story can be improved in some way; nothing's perfect. It doesn't have to be a dissertation, just constructive advice that focuses on a particular aspect(s) of the work.

gar.

Edit: I wasn't implying that because your writing appears to be quite good that that makes your opinion more valid than anyone else's, just that you seem competent and shouldn't doubt yourself. Everyone's opinion matters here.

[fantasy girl]

I had the same problem when I first started here. But what I did, was told people why I liked something, or why I didn't like something. I thought well this really isn't going to help, but I often find, it is the new people who comment like that, that help the most. yes, the more experienced poeple who do detailed critiques help, but the things they point out, could be corrected on MS Word.

Fantasy Girl xx

[ManhattanMss]

I had the same problem when I first started here. But what I did, was told people why I liked something, or why I didn't like something. I thought well this really isn't going to help, but I often find, it is the new people who comment like that, that help the most. yes, the more experienced poeple who do detailed critiques help, but the things they point out, could be corrected on MS Word.

Fantasy Girl xx

It seems to me that more experienced writers find genuine comments from readers exceptionally useful, while novice writers seek more structured and definitive advice. My impression is that the "rules" of this forum are designed to avoid having disingenuous, empty, unhelpful remarks made about stories just for the sake of "paying enough dues" to post one's own story. Absent details, things like how great the story is or how abysmal are just impossible to make good use of. But my impression when I first arrived here (and even still) is that the rules of this forum lean heavily toward the "teaching" side, which I found intimidating, just as some other reviewers have mentioned. I'm not a teacher or mentor, after all, and have no desire to be either. I don't even like feedback that sounds so authoritative that it suggests there's only one way to correct one thing or another (which I don't believe for a minute). But ultimately, even novice writers can learn to benefit from the kind of honest feedback you mention, however it's delivered. And we can all benefit from corrections (when they're actually "correct"), and eventually we'll learn which is which--or at least that's something to shoot for.

[bluebell80]

I'll work on my self-confidence in terms of writing.

Yes, I do read and have many subjective opinions, but that doesn't mean I'd like to write about them. Again, I do not feel qualified to the point to which I might be helpful. So, I'll give it a shot anyway, with the hope someone competent might review my own writing and offer desperately needed feedback.


Rocker, there is always an alternative. Many of us here offer private reviewing. I know I have done it for a few who had not posted 2 critiques, one I had spent an hour writing the critique -- because I really liked it, but saw many, many flaws -- that I emailed to them since their thread was locked for not having the requirement critiques.

If you get to know people here, either through the lounge or through just general writing postings, many will offer to read things for you, or offer it to whom ever might want it. But, to post something in the review room, you have to show adequate participation in the review room. Those are the rules and we all appreciate them (at least those of us who have or do post in the review room.)

(This next part is not addressed to you -- Rocker-- directly)

I don't understand how someone who wants to write something can feel inadequate to give a critique. Even before I started writing fiction seriously, I was an avid reader. I knew what worked and what didn't. Even when I didn't feel confident in red marking someone else's grammar choices, I knew what worked when read. I could read a sentence and say "That just sounds awkward to me." Taking basic level college English classes helped me really grasp why things were awkward. I went an entire semester irritated with my teacher's red pen, but in the end she was right and I was stupid. I learned a lot from a basic English course. I learned more from later classes and from even more strict teachers in Lit classes. But, I learned more from the teachers who were strict, irritatingly strict, than I did the teachers who let people just slide.

That is why I am always strict in my critiques when I give them. I give encouragement when it is warranted, but am rather harsh in other respects, because harshness, no matter how reject it may be at first, is better than unwarranted praise.

Did I feel qualified to be harsh when I first started in my classes? No, not in the least. I felt like a numbskull in most of my first collage classes after being out of school for several years. But, after enduring and making good grades in strict, harsh teacher's classes, I did feel more qualified to be harsh to others. It is a necessary step for most wannabe writers to go through. The feelings of being inadequate, rejected, and horrible are something almost required of making it to be a writer.

I've gotten over the worry of hurting a writer's feelings. Their first few critiques should hurt, and if they don't, then they haven't been critiqued correctly. The first few critiques should make you feel like throwing your pen across the room and never trying to write again. But a true writer will endure, get over the pain, and write again. It's survival of the fittest in the writing world. And those who can't hack it, well, they end up writing endlessly in journals that never see the light of day.

Some of you may feel inadequate now, but you will get over it. Critique to the best of your current ability. If that isn't enough to pass though the lenient requirements of this site, then you need to read more on how to give a proper literature critique. Maybe take a class at your local community college or online...but eventually you'll get over feeling under-qualified to give a critique -- however the process of learning it might be painful. As it should be.

[Danno]

I stumbled upon your post and after signing up, I see the nature of your problem. WHile I feel as though I can offer substantive reviews, I have no experience with the expectations and standards common at this site. I intend to offer the two required reviews at the most minimal level possible, in order to post the piece i came here for feedback on. Hope that's sufficient to satisfy the requirements.



[QUOTE=Rocker;556284] ...first critique. I feel unqualified to offer input, but I did so anyway. Did I write anything useful or do harm?

I am visiting this forum to receive feedback from the educated writers and teachers, so that I might one day voluntarily offer a keen eye to others. My friends are not writers, so I surf the cyber-space to find such a forum only to learn I must be a qualified writer/educator to participate- this is a bit of a catch .22.

[Cogito]

Danno, te Review Room is a critiquing workshop. Please do not post for comments if you have no intention of participating.

The purpose is to learn to critique constructively, and thereby learn to find and fix problems in your own writing. It is not a critiquing service.

[Calrootpeg]

I think critiquing is often mixed either with the arrogance of superiority, and the meanness of criticism, or, the offer of unbias judgment, and selective praise. Criticism breeds resentments; critique, respect. Say what you might see wrong, but look hard for the things that could be great. Unless your in school. Then it's a whole different set of rules.

Or so I think. :)

[Davylove21]

I find the problem with critiquing to be that often there are about 5 'critiques' already posted that already say what you would have. And far too often they focus on grammar rather than the impact of setting or something similar.

[LordKyleOfEarth]

I think critiquing is often mixed either with the arrogance of superiority, and the meanness of criticism, or, the offer of unbias judgment, and selective praise. Criticism breeds resentments; critique, respect. Say what you might see wrong, but look hard for the things that could be great. Unless your in school. Then it's a whole different set of rules.

Or so I think. :)
When I post things up for review, I don't want people to tell me "Its great!" I want them to tell me that things are wrong. I want them to find flaws. The editors that I will ultimately submit it to will not pull any punches or have concern for my feelings. I don't think that criticism breeds resentment; it breeds better writing.



I find the problem with critiquing to be that often there are about 5 'critiques' already posted that already say what you would have. And far too often they focus on grammar rather than the impact of setting or something similar.

If the first 5 focus on grammar and not the impact of things, it sounds like you have plenty of room to still be constructive.

[bluebell80]

I find the problem with critiquing to be that often there are about 5 'critiques' already posted that already say what you would have. And far too often they focus on grammar rather than the impact of setting or something similar.


This is why I don't focus on grammar and spelling as much as what works and doesn't work. I focus on things that make up the structure of the piece, the plot, the characters, the dialog...then I make little notes of the confusing stuff, usually as a result of grammar issues, sometimes spelling issues, and sometimes just a lack of paying attention to what has already been written.

I know sometimes in writing I repete things, or jump ahead, and if I don't go back and reread what I have written it would be confusing to the reader.

Critiquing is an art form in and of itself. Critiquing involves the critical thinking skills of being a good reader, and having some knowledge of writing methods.

Most postings in the review room can always have something added that was missed by the other critiquers. Sometimes people post their revised pieces in the same thread and need those critiqued too. So I always look through the whole thread.

[ManhattanMss]

I find the problem with critiquing to be that often there are about 5 'critiques' already posted that already say what you would have. And far too often they focus on grammar rather than the impact of setting or something similar.

I know some reviewers read other reviews before writing their own critique. But, if you don't do that (I usually don't), then where the critiques overlap (or reiterate the same piece of advice or criticism), that can be very helpful to the writer in sorting out the more meaningful issues the story might have from those that simply reflect a particular read or attitude.

The other thing about open reviews (where everyone reads or can read the others) is that sometimes if a reviewer fails to comment on something just because it's already been mentioned, it minimizes the importance of that particular impression. The opposite is true, too--where readers notice something just because someone else mentions it and maybe "agree" where they might not have in a private, independent review.

IOW, if lots of folks have the same issues independently, that's more likely to be a critical something-or-other to consider than if only one person has a particular problem. Sometimes the writer doesn't know that in an open review where people don't want to point out the same thing someone else already has. And sometimes he can't tell if the comments are agreeing only for the sake of having something to say where they might not have commented otherwise.

I think it's complicated for the author any way you cut it. But the spread of observations I see here in this forum certainly seems to supply writers with lots of food for thought. That there are differences in views on various things just suggests places where the writer must investigate for himself in order to use his own best judgement.

[writewizard]

I have been reluctant to go into the Review rooms and critique because I have been intimidated by the requirement to spot weaknesses and to know why something works in my critique: http://www.writingforums.org/showthread.php?p=408268#post408268

But I am not an editor. I don't know much about grammar, I can't tell a person why a sentence doesn't work right because I don't know. I don't know why something doesn't work and I have never felt like I should be the one to say what works or what doesn't because I'm not qualified to say. And I have never read a book like that (published or not).

This is what I can offer:

If I read it and like it, I can say I really liked this and why I liked it. Since I only read what I like and it's easy for me to say what I liked and why, and since most readers that I know read like that. I get nervous about saying why I didn't like it and why because its an opinion and most of the time it's not even my genre and so I only read what I like.

I can't say it doesn't flow here, you put the : in the wrong place, or all these adjectives take from the story, or your pace is too slow, this is how to make it better. Because I don't know! And if I knew I would be doing that for my own stories!

The point of this is. Will it still matter if I give Critique's and they're not about where it was weak, and what made it flow or not flow? Just about what I liked and why as a reader not an editor or anything close but as a reader who appreciates writing that attracts me or draws me in?

On one webpage I go on, I start out by telling individuals what I liked about the story. I rarely rewrite their grammar and speelling for them unless I know what else to say. I leave that for them or someone else.

If you can't say, "Oh, that doesn't flow right", don't worry about it! Sometimes the best way to go is to say what is right. If you say what is right, and leave out, for example, that you didn't like a certian part, the author should edit it and say, "okay, they didn't say they liked this. So i should fix it."


Perhaps your best bet is to start off by saying, "Well, I liked this, this and this, but for some reason, this part doesn't feel right, and I think you can change it to something better. Here's how." Or even, "I feel as though you should change this, but I don't know how to show you too."

Hope this helped
Writewizard :D

[KingAJO]

ive got to be honest i dont feel qualified to be passing judgement on the work of people that have been writting for many years. give an idea or two maybe but i cant comment on work that is proabably 20 times better than anything i could write.

i came on the site hoping that with the amount of writers on here that i maybe able to find help with my own work for uni and i find i cant post my work for a review because i have not commented on enough peoples work. ive tried to leave comments where i can but some of these threads are way out of my league.

i am not complaining about passing comments, that would be selfish i will quite happily pass a comment on something i feel qualified to do so on but i dont think you should be forced to otherwise your heart wont really be in it and you will say anything just so you can get your own work posted

[ManhattanMss]

ive got to be honest i dont feel qualified to be passing judgement on the work of people that have been writting for many years. give an idea or two maybe but i cant comment on work that is proabably 20 times better than anything i could write.

i came on the site hoping that with the amount of writers on here that i maybe able to find help with my own work for uni and i find i cant post my work for a review because i have not commented on enough peoples work. ive tried to leave comments where i can but some of these threads are way out of my league.

i am not complaining about passing comments, that would be selfish i will quite happily pass a comment on something i feel qualified to do so on but i dont think you should be forced to otherwise your heart wont really be in it and you will say anything just so you can get your own work posted


I once felt the same way you feel, till I was told by a published writer that my reader's impressions were more valuable to him than any editor's comments he could easily pay for and get. Having had my own work read by strangers, including those who never even read short fiction (which is what I write), I can tell you that I now understand exactly what he meant. To know where a reader--any reader--loses interest in a story can be a HUGE gift to a writer (even if he can't explain it well). To know where something became confusing or where a reader stumbled over a phrase or word can be a godsend (even if the confusion seems the consequence of short attention span or ignorance). If a story reads like it's beyond comprehension to a given reader, that too is worth knowing to a serious writer (it's up to the author to decide if that opinion matters and who his audience is meant to be). Even to know what a reader likes about a story--whether or not it's what the author meant to be significant--is worth more than the typical feedback anyone can pay for.

Yes, it takes some courage to reveal your reader's take. And, yes, it takes some skill that one develops--certainly for a writer or a wannabe. But writing (fiction) itself is an act of courage in some way or else it's hardly worth the time to read it. So, if nothing else, you're developing your own courage by entering the fray and coughing up your take.

Being a writer is something one must simply dare to do and learn to take his failures gracefully and learn from them.

[MsMyth71]

It most certainly does matter.

The point of the Review Room critiquing workshop is to develop those skills. Not because we expect you to join the submissions editor staff of a major publisher, but because self-critique is an important part of the revision process. You cannot rely on someone else to correct your grammar and word usage, your punctuation, and your spelling. You can't couint on someone else to spot infodumping or lackluster dialogue. You can't expect someone else to point out rambling descriptions that destroy the pace of the story, or marathon sentences that wander all over te lanscape and never come to a point.

So yes, it matters a great deal. If you don't already possess decent critiquing skills, it's about time you learn them. You will need them, and they will serve you well.

See also: Why Write Reviews Before Posting My Work? (http://www.writingforums.org/showthread.php?t=4705)

I'm late to this, but I have to agree.

You learn this by doing. I remember sitting in a classroom my first year of undergrad workshop and literally sitting there thinking, "I have no idea what I'm going to say to offer critique." Others in class would bring up one thing and I would look at that and say, "Hmm, ok, they have a point."

I started by trying to focus on one thing at a time in a story. Maybe that's a good way for you? For example, look at characters in the story. Are they round? Flat? Are there places where they are not convincing? Melodramatic?

Then next time, look solely at dialogue. Is it believable? Is it overwrought?

I found that when I focused on one thing for a few stories, I got good at spotting those concerns after a while. Then you move on to something else. :)

[bachatan]

how is it going?

I just recently joined the site, and I too was wondering about giving critique, when I don't consider my self the best writer, and I dont know the correct formats for everything, I do believe though that focusing on what doesn't work is the best way to support another writer.

I feel you already know what works for you, and having someone honest enough to tell you what doesn't is a favor.

Trakaias you said "I get nervous about saying why I didn't like it and why because its an opinion"

well even when you say why you liked something, its still an opinion, everything is an opinion, everything you share depends on how you feel.

you might like a movie someone else hates or despises, its the same thing here, and even this is just my opinion



I have been reluctant to go into the Review rooms and critique because I have been intimidated by the requirement to spot weaknesses and to know why something works in my critique: http://www.writingforums.org/showthread.php?p=408268#post408268

But I am not an editor. I don't know much about grammar, I can't tell a person why a sentence doesn't work right because I don't know. I don't know why something doesn't work and I have never felt like I should be the one to say what works or what doesn't because I'm not qualified to say. And I have never read a book like that (published or not).

This is what I can offer:

If I read it and like it, I can say I really liked this and why I liked it. Since I only read what I like and it's easy for me to say what I liked and why, and since most readers that I know read like that. I get nervous about saying why I didn't like it and why because its an opinion and most of the time it's not even my genre and so I only read what I like.

I can't say it doesn't flow here, you put the : in the wrong place, or all these adjectives take from the story, or your pace is too slow, this is how to make it better. Because I don't know! And if I knew I would be doing that for my own stories!

The point of this is. Will it still matter if I give Critique's and they're not about where it was weak, and what made it flow or not flow? Just about what I liked and why as a reader not an editor or anything close but as a reader who appreciates writing that attracts me or draws me in?

[Jammer]

Great post, and one I think still very much applies to many of us one year latter in 2010, it's a most timeless point that I fully relate too, imho.

I was a little lucky, as I have very little material of my own and truly came to this site to not only hook up with some new friends, but to mainly LEARN more about the almost nagging feeling in my head that I MUST WRITE and how best to funnel this energy into something productive such as a book. I simply had nothing worthy to post for a review when I came here like so many others have from day #1 here. I am only getting started and can not shake this notion of being in the first week of school.

Feeling like a virgin in a den of porn stars, I too feel very unqualified to review a member's posted writings here at this stage in my life. I did read the rules first, but somehow it escaped me that the rules say we MUST review stories before we dare post are own works here. (did I already say something like this before? I'm sorry) I guess because I am in no hurry to post my writings (and ' have little to share if I had) I had not realized what a major issue this is for newbies to review before sharing, DESPITE the many many efforts of the good mods here to tell us this as soon as we introduce ourselves! It was my mistake, I read the rules a little too fast, and I can completely understand how easy it is for an eager writer to register and go straight to the Review forum to eagerly share their stories online....

Having said that, I must admit I still feel unqualified to review others hard work here. But, nevertheless, I will try to do my best, and I hope I can help the author and myself by doing so and also do it in a respected manner that hopefully does not offend anyone or breaks any site rules.

An Analogy:

When I went back and re-read the rules about reviewing I understood the purpose and how it can help us all write better. Nevertheless in my first review it was difficult for me to try and be helpful to the writer. I found myself feeling like I do when I am on the open interstate with my CB radio microphone in my hand hesitating to strike a conversation with other drivers about the road conditions ahead of me. It compares to stage fright, and I do not believe that is a good thing for an inspiring writer to have, I know I must lose the hesitation....

In my CB radio analogy, I quickly discovered it works best to simply jump on Trucker's channel #19 and simply start pointing out various things that were pertain to other drivers on the road often going the opposite direction of travel, even if it was as simple as a broken down car a little too close to the right lane. I soon discovered that sometimes the simplest things can be very helpful to others that share the same interests. Before I knew it I had greatly improved my ability to use my radio to not only help others, but they in turn helped me avoid traffic jams and more on my trips. (Sorry, I make my points best with analogies often, I hope I do not confuse anybody with my practice of posting this way).

Back to the subject on hand:

So, although I felt like I had butterflies in my stomach in my first review, I figured I just had to jump straight into a post and nicely point out what my impression was of the story. I believe it is possible to stay positive yet point out the good and bad things about a writing yet say it with respect and not tare an author to bits. Also I believe sometimes what is NOT said can say as much as what IS said in a review sometimes. (ex: an entertainer that displays their hard work in view of a large audience and upon finishing hears only crickets!)

Yes I just can not help but keep the author's emotions in mind, but I strongly believe it is possible to jump straight into a review, point out what one likes or dislikes about a writing, do one's best to find and point out areas that might need improvement, and by doing so we help the author and ourselves become better writers by doing so, while not being mean spirited nor stuck-up about our reviews. From what I have observed here so far, I believe we have members of writing talent that vary a lot on this site; am I wrong about this? I wold hate to discourage an inspiring writer to the point of giving up.

I need to learn so much more, but I will do my part and try to review to the best of my ability. I figure the concept makes sense, and this stuff really should help us all become better writers.

My best.

Terry


I have been reluctant to go into the Review rooms and critique because I have been intimidated by the requirement to spot weaknesses and to know why something works in my critique: http://www.writingforums.org/showthread.php?p=408268#post408268

But I am not an editor. I don't know much about grammar, I can't tell a person why a sentence doesn't work right because I don't know. I don't know why something doesn't work and I have never felt like I should be the one to say what works or what doesn't because I'm not qualified to say. And I have never read a book like that (published or not).

This is what I can offer:

If I read it and like it, I can say I really liked this and why I liked it. Since I only read what I like and it's easy for me to say what I liked and why, and since most readers that I know read like that. I get nervous about saying why I didn't like it and why because its an opinion and most of the time it's not even my genre and so I only read what I like.

I can't say it doesn't flow here, you put the : in the wrong place, or all these adjectives take from the story, or your pace is too slow, this is how to make it better. Because I don't know! And if I knew I would be doing that for my own stories!

The point of this is. Will it still matter if I give Critique's and they're not about where it was weak, and what made it flow or not flow? Just about what I liked and why as a reader not an editor or anything close but as a reader who appreciates writing that attracts me or draws me in?

[GH Pots]

When you get dressed in the morning and ask your partner if you look OK and they say no.

That's a critique, and one you will be thankful for the rest of the day.

[Cogito]

It's a constructive critique if the partner also tells you what you need to be your best, most brilliantly shining best.