Why are fantasies always stuck in the middle ages?

[Sean2112bd]

I mean, why? I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but you'd think after a while they would start developing better technology and weapons and stuff. I'd love to read about a fantasy that takes place in the industrial age, or even a western fantasy, or maybe steampunk fantasy etc. So why is it that Dwarves, Elves, Men, and other creatures rely on swords and armor when they could be discovering gun powder and making guns and trains and flying machines etc.

Take my example of a western fantasy since that's what sounds intriguing to me. You can totally take a western american approach and make Elves and Dwarves similar to the Indians, the Chinese or the Irish that immigrated into the U.S (not trying to be racist, it's just an example that could go either way e.g white people being the minority) and then you would have a new frontier where traveling can be done. The gunslinger would be the new knight errant, and magic can be outlawed since its now considered "too dangerous" and with the rise of technology unnecessary and those performing it would be criminally charged and hanged (this is off the top of my head). Anyway, I think it would be great, but then people would be like "he copied Stephen King" so I don't think anyone will do it since the whole knight/gunslinger thing has been done by one of the most prominent authors.

Anyway, why is fantasy always stuck in the middle ages.

[Cerrus]

Fantasy doesn't have to be in the middle ages, but it's just the usual fantasy people write. For example: The Final Fantasy video game series - it takes place in an environment with futuristic technology with swords, and magic. Fantasy doesn't have to be in the middle ages, it just usually fits best there. I mean would you read a fantasy story with a dwarf waiting for a train, or a dark elf being a car salesman?

[Wreybies]

Such books exist! Get to know China Mieville. All your reading dreams shall come true. ;)

Perdido Street Station - Urban/Steampunk Fantasy/Science Fiction

The Scar - Pirate Fantasy with some Steampunk and even a vampire for kicks.

Iron Council - Steampunk + Fantasy + Western + Sci-Fi

[guamyankee]

I love the idea of a western fantasy. If you don't write it, I will!

Although now that I think about it, The Dark Tower series is a western fantasy.

[spklvr]

Except for Lord of the Rings, I've never read a fantasy with a mideval setting, though most of the fantasy I read are horror/monster novels. And there is a ton of steampunk fantasy out there, you just have to look a bit harder. They are not as commercial, so you won't always find them in libraries.

[Melzaar the Almighty]

It isn't all - there's loads of urban fantasy and blah. And not all cultures in high fantasy are strictly medieval. the Victorian period, with all its existing pedigree of horror and early supernatural stories, makes an awesome setting, and writers utilise that.

Personally, while I've studied the middle ages far more extensively, when I write fantasy worlds, I'm much more comfortable in an Enlightenment/Victorian setting (1700-1900, depending on the needs of the story). My characters will use guns, steam power is not unheard of, etc. I don't particularly get steam punk - ie, I have no problem with it, but I don't think in a very technological way so I don't really work well with trying to make more technology up. I just don't care enough about the social world of the 1900s onwards to set something in a historically similar setting there, despite the greater range of technology, and a greater confidence in knowing what I was talking about in some regards compared to earlier times.

In any case, the point with "Medieval" or rennaisance-based fantasy settings is:

- the world is unknown, green, vast, and harking back to a simpler time. Technology as we know it isn't even in its infancy. The world is untouched, basically, the people having almost no much lasting impact on it. it's the ultimate hippie dream, and something many people think longingly of if they spend too long in a city

- it's far removed from our culture; there is room to really explore, create a new setting, and if you break some rules it doesn't matter because it's fantasy. The TYPE of world in the middle ages is quite easy to replicate. The society itself would be easy to screw up if you hadn't studied it, but the TYPE of world we get after the middle ages becomes increasingly more dependant on what came before - as you can see with the emergence of steam punk it comes in later time periods, branching off what happened before. There's a greater sense of alternate history: what would have happened if...? The middle ages, being vast, and largely inconsequential in terms of world shaking events except for the trading back and forth of rulers (ie: sometimes England owns France, sometimes it's the reverse) life itself for the peasants didn't change much, even with the easier social structure after the black death. That sort of society makes a good backdrop, since you don't have to worry about messing anything up: add new kings, give them wizards, make it so they all live upside down... They're peasants and they'll keep on serfing as long as they live :P

- it's been insanely romanticised (see above comment about an ideal past) but it also means it's got vast amounts of literature already dedicated to it. Even the FIRST literature looked back a few hundred years, and as you get further forward in time, literature always looks back to the middle ages, the further you get from it, the more fantastic it is. For a long time King Arthur and all the legends were fact and history. All the stuff with dragons, merlin, etc, were all accepted parts of our history. So there is a very strong precedent for it. The medieval world IS incomplete without its "mythology". I read a book written in the 1200s a few weeks ago that was a bestiary, or, well, zoology textbook. Among animals like cattle and horses were griffons and dragons, with zilch distinction made between whether they existed or not. Sure, the guy down the road didn't own a manticore - they and the rainbow-coloured flying wolves were all in "Ethiopia" (all of Africa to them, basically :P) but they existed as far as the medieval people were concerned. The middle ages IS a fantasy world, if you take it at face value and read their beliefs, sciences, and practices with an "open" mind.

Basically, it's the perfect setting for epic high fantasy. It's where it existed even before we knew what that was. :P


(OH HEY, THIS IS MY DEGREE :P)

[Ellipse]

I just think there haven't been many authors that have explored settings like the wild west with fantasy, especially since that would be crossing genres. You don't see many futuristic fantasies because then they might get labeled as sci-fi instead.

In some stories I have seen it explained that certain societies try to keep technology limited from the public. As the saying went, any idiot can use technology, but it takes a special idiot to use magic. It went along the idea that life is difficult enough dealing with wizards that can shoot fireballs and lightning bolts. If every peasant suddenly has access to a pistol or rifle, then life becomes a whole lot more complicated.

However, that hasn't stopped games from exploring those settings. Years ago someone invented a wild west setting gaming module for Dungeons and Dragons. It fit all the races in much as you described.

Then there was a fun video made called Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magic which was a fantasy world set during an industrial revolution. The story and background were done very well, and they balanced magic and technology in an interesting way. If you were an inventor/engineer, you couldn't use magic. Likewise, if you were a magic user, you couldn't use technology. In fact, being around your polar opposite could have disasterous results. A powerful wizard's presence would cause technology to completely stop functioning. A genious inventor's presence could cause a simple healing spell to explode in a fireball.

If you find the fantasy genre lacking in the settings you have described, why don't you give it a shot? :)

[guamyankee]

I would think that in today's market you might have a better chance to get published if you deviate from the traditional medieval setting. Of course, a good story is a good story is a good story, regardless of the setting. Still, if you make a good story in a unique setting, so much the better.

[w176]

Another interesting argument is that there been points in history when a industrial revolution -could- have happened, but didn't. With factors such as of a drop in population, a need of effectivisation in the workforce since we had less people needing but job still needed doing, educational levels, etc. For example at a bunch of points in Chinese history.

One way to see history could be that having an industrial revolution isn't the norm, it a freak accident that happened once in our history, and changed the world.

But you just read to much of the bad mainstream fantasy, and to little of the rich awesome goodies there is in the fantasy genre. Jim Butcher has written roman fantasy (Codex Alera), there ar looooooooooooooooods of urban fatasy, and science fantasy. Robin Hobb and Orson Scott Card have written fantasy set or with an American colonisation feel ("Shamans crossings" and "Alivin the maker" respectively).,. Steam punk fantasy is hot, loads of victorian era scince fantasy/horror etc etc.

[mammamaia]

Why are fantasies always stuck in the middle ages?

they're not!

[texico11]

The epic-fantasy I'm writing at the moment is set in a near-futuristic world, say, 50 to 100 years more advanced than we are now?

I suppose the main thing is that futuristic fantasy is blending into sci-fi. I've been working hard to make sure the novel feels much more like a typical fantasy with a modern setting, rather than a sci-fi with fantasy elements. But I'm not using elves, dwarves and other typically fantasy mythical creatures; I'm trying to come up with my own. I guess if you attempted that you'd have to come up with a believable portrayal of those household races in the modern world.

[Elgaisma]

I actually like the swords/sorcery middle ages feel to fantasy even when it has modern technology, the beauty of a fantasy is you can mix and match when building your own world.

Fantasies do vary but I love the medieval feel of Narnia, Pern etc but then I quite like ones like the Faraway Tree set in the 1940s. And love the Ghibli Steampunk style films.

[Mallory]

Well not all fantasy is stuck in medieval times if you're thinking fantasy along the lines of Harry Potter, Matilda, Merry Poppins etc -- I mean, these types of fantasies are more real-world/relatable for lack of a better word.

I think the OP is referring to high fantasy -- the kind with completely made up worlds and creatures -- and yes, those do seem to use a whole lot of armor, swords, gems, torchlights etc. This is only from what I've read, and take it with a grain of salt, because I'm no fantasy expert.

By the way -- what exactly distinguishes high fantasy from regular (general?) fantasy? I mean, I think I could tell them apart in a given situation, and I know stuff like LOTR is high fantasy...but is there a specific definition?

[joelpatterson]

I'm sure someone has come up with a specific definition, but I remember in the discussions of how the technology on Star Trek would operate: the protagonists could never "beam themselves up" from a dangerous situation on a hostile planet-- that would undercut the whole rules of how conflict must operate in a story.

Also, in the classic fairy tales, the supernatural entities never had any power to control anything-- they were always only there to advise the hero/heroine, to focus their attention on key information-- the struggle would have to take place in the protagonist, internally, their triumph would have to be of their own doing.

For all the miraculous "scenery" and "effects" in fantasy literature, it seems like that's the lesson-- all the contesting and striving-- and the outcome-- happens in the core of the character.

[Ellipse]

Well not all fantasy is stuck in medieval times if you're thinking fantasy along the lines of Harry Potter, Matilda, Merry Poppins etc -- I mean, these types of fantasies are more real-world/relatable for lack of a better word.

I think the OP is referring to high fantasy -- the kind with completely made up worlds and creatures -- and yes, those do seem to use a whole lot of armor, swords, gems, torchlights etc. This is only from what I've read, and take it with a grain of salt, because I'm no fantasy expert.

By the way -- what exactly distinguishes high fantasy from regular (general?) fantasy? I mean, I think I could tell them apart in a given situation, and I know stuff like LOTR is fantasy...but is there a specific definition?

Generally, high fantasy is a story that either involves the entire world or has huge repercussions for it.

[Steerpike]

Anyway, why is fantasy always stuck in the middle ages.

It's not. There are plenty of fantasies set in other times, including the present day, as well as other cultures, etc.

[Mallory]

Thanks for explaining - so something that involves saving the world is generally high fantasy, while something only involving a character or group of characters on a smaller scale is lower fantasy?

[Elgaisma]

By the way -- what exactly distinguishes high fantasy from regular (general?) fantasy? I mean, I think I could tell them apart in a given situation, and I know stuff like LOTR is high fantasy...but is there a specific definition?

It has something to do with creating a new world or having a secondary world, other than Earth. Not sure where mine lies lol It has swords but also guns, MP3 players and laptops. Also Earth is my secondary world, its the one people have come from initially or visit once I do the time travel.

[Unit7]

a dark elf being a car salesman?

Uh yeah I'd actually would want to read it.


As for me? I just love the setting. Knights in shiny white armor dripping with blood and Damsels in distress who are really evil shapeshifters that want to eat your brains... yeah good stuff. :D

But no seriously I just enjoy the setting so I write within something like it.

[Heather Munn]

On a side note, I always wondered why fantasy is always stuck in a European-type landscape. (Although I'm sure there's some fantasy featuring Asian landscapes too; I haven't really read that type though.)

Then when I picked up Lois McMaster Bujold's Sharing Knife series, I was delighted to discover it was set in an American landscape. It had raccoons, possums, catalpa trees, even a river that is clearly the Mississippi. (Though most of the geography is quite different. It could be the American continent in a different geological age or something.) Very refreshing.

[Schofield]

It has something to do with creating a new world or having a secondary world, other than Earth. Not sure where mine lies lol It has swords but also guns, MP3 players and laptops. Also Earth is my secondary world, its the one people have come from initially or visit once I do the time travel.

Fantasies don't have to take place on a secondary world. Middle-Earth was the same Earth we live in now, Tolkien said it took place roughly 6000 years before his time.

[Edward G]

I probably shouldn't, but I would like to voice my utter hatred of "fantasy." I don't know why people write it, and I don't know why people read it, but they do in large numbers and have ever since I was a kid.

I'm sure there are psychological archetypes associated with the elements of fantasy: the elf, the wizard, the Middle Ages setting, the sword, etc., and that's what touches most of humanity--myself excluded. I, for one, would like nothing better than a story where a fantasy Middle Age village full of noble elves and sorcerers with names like Zocoria and Avalanchia was nuked by the drunken crew of a B-2 bomber. But that's me.

My own personal theory is that people write fantasy to make social commentary but don't have the insight to write stories about real life. Thus instead of a story about overcoming racism through understanding on both sides using real people say at a...construction site or something...the person who knows nothing of people or construction sites makes up purple elves and green elves that hate one another and fight each other with swords because said author has never owned a gun and would probably describe a .38 as having .22 LR ammo in it.

I'm not trying to start a fight or anything. I'm just saying that I've never really liked fantasy much, and I've never understood its purpose. Somehow the archetypes in millions of people are absent in me.

Now, a completely unrealistic horror story--that I'm all in for!

[Sean2112bd]

Okay guys you've convinced me, but I still think there's a lot of untapped potential in fantasy. Or maybe I need to read more lol :rolleyes:

[Sean2112bd]

I probably shouldn't, but I would like to voice my utter hatred of "fantasy." I don't know why people write it, and I don't know why people read it, but they do in large numbers and have ever since I was a kid.

I'm sure there are psychological archetypes associated with the elements of fantasy: the elf, the wizard, the Middle Ages setting, the sword, etc., and that's what touches most of humanity--myself excluded. I, for one, would like nothing better than a story where a fantasy Middle Age village full of noble elves and sorcerers with names like Zocoria and Avalanchia are nuked by the drunken crew of a B-2 bomber. But that's me.

My own personal theory is that people write fantasy to make social commentary but don't have the insight to write stories about real life. Thus instead of a story about overcoming racism through understanding on both sides using real people say at a...construction site or something...the person who knows nothing of people or construction sites makes up purple elves and green elves that hate one another and fight each other with swords because said author has never owned a gun and would probably describe a .38 as having .22 LR ammo in it.

I'm not trying to start a fight or anything. I'm just saying that I've never really liked fantasy much, and I've never understood its purpose. Somehow the archetypes in millions of people are absent in me.

Now, a completely unrealistic horror story--that I'm all in for!

You know I like fantasy, but in a way I'm kind of growing out of it. However, I have quite a few fantasy books I need to read so until that time I'll enjoy them, but I agree that fantasy is an acquired taste.

[Taylee91]

Anyway, why is fantasy always stuck in the middle ages.

In my opinion, the middle ages is a primitive world. Peasants toil underneath wealthy lords, have very few freedoms, and live in pretty sad conditions with hardly any possessions of their own. This gives a writer many possible characters to create. And with this setting, it's also a point in our history where we were transforming from the old ages to the new. And because of this, writers find an easy platform to build their stories upon where they can choose what happens as the future is not completely set in stone.

So really anything can happen. That's what fantasy is.

[guamyankee]

Okay guys you've convinced me, but I still think there's a lot of untapped potential in fantasy. Or maybe I need to read more lol :rolleyes:

Every so often when I go into a department store like Fred Meyers, or sometimes Target, I take a look at what's selling in the fantasy department. On a side note, I also like to open the books and read the first sentence. Anyway, the medieval setting does seem to be the most popular, and many of the stories look the same. Granted, there is a greater variety of fantasy at the big name bookstores.

The great thing about fantasy is the limitations of the genre. That is, there are no limitations, except for your own imagination. Yet, elves, wizards, dragons, and the like seem to form the basis of most fantasies today, even though there are exceptions.

I agree with you. Because of the very nature of the fantasy genre, there is unlimited potential for variations of settings, characters, and plots that are far more radical than we are currently seeing. Oh yeah, let's not forget the latest overdone craze: vampires.

[Link the Writer]

I blame LOTR. People want to copy Tolkien, so they base their story in a Middle Ages-esque setting. Some of the fantasies I've read even had dwarves still living underground.

But fantasy/sci-fi, to me, is just a big-ass sandbox where anything's possible. After all, it's not set in our world.

For instance, I can take our Earth and replace humans with elves. The countries are still there (USA, UK, France, etc), but instead of us, its the elves and their history and cultures (obviously) would be different from ours.

I always wanted to see a German elf running around kicking butt and taking names. :>

[Elgaisma]

You know I like fantasy, but in a way I'm kind of growing out of it. However, I have quite a few fantasy books I need to read so until that time I'll enjoy them, but I agree that fantasy is an acquired taste.

Fantasy is one of the oldest genres available in storytelling and for me its about appreciating what a good story is all about, its the ultimate playground for an author - the Iliad, and the Odyssey come to mind, Faustus, Midsummer Nights dream, Arthur, Beowulf, Cinderella, the many amazing legends we have. Tolkein had an indepth knowledge of legends, history etc without that writing a good fantasy must be incredibly hard. My level of education is nowhere near Tolkein's however my study of religions, archaeology, philsophy, science and stories through the ages is invaluable when a problem comes up in my story.

For me writing fantasy is ultimate in exercising every piece of knowledge and every inch of my imagination. It uses my academic ability to think on my feet, provide context, as why, to explore. Other genres you can do it but not to the same extent - I can't see me ever writing without some fantasy element to the story even when I am doing general fiction etc

Personally my favourite fantasy writer and world builder is Enid Blyton, think she was much more of a genius than Tolkein in this respect - her worlds are wonderful, characters engaging. For me Tolkien is a wonderful academic exercise, Blyton and Lewis for me use their academic ability to enrich their stories rather than to create them. They let it inform and deepen their imagination.

[Ged]

People want to copy Tolkien.

At the risk of getting gruesomely assassinated in the dead of night--

I never really liked Tolkien that much. I read the second book, but had no desire to read the first, or the third. Just not my style.

Anyway, to return to the topic at hand.

It's probably because of the atmosphere about the time, or rather, the perceived atmosphere.

But what does medieval fantasy actually mean? Swords and magic and robes and tunics? I'm sure those exist in other settings/ages as well.

I've read few fantasies where there is feudalism, or grittiness, or realism. If those are what most people understand by medieval. I know about GRRM and his books, and I can say they form an exception.

Do people take fantasy to mean works set in a technological age similar to our middle ages, or do they imply the mindsets and social traits as well?

And to end the post: why do I write in medieval settings? It's comfortable, known ground to me.

[Elgaisma]

At the risk of getting gruesomely assassinated in the dead of night--

I never really liked Tolkien that much. I read the second book, but had no desire to read the first, or the third. Just not my style.

.

Entirely agree was forced to read the Hobbit for school and read first few chapters of LOTRs, I recognise his worldbuilding genius, but not his storytelling ability lol He bores me stupid.

I actually think it is more to do with the Arthurian/Celtic/Scandinavian/Roman/Greek legends than Tolkein. Plus the middle ages = dark ages and you can get away with more imagination to fill in the gaps in history than in some earlier or later eras.

Mine is a completely different world - they have laptops, vehicles etc but the king wears a uniform designed in the middle ages etc they have guns but they also have weapons such as bows and arrows, knives etc made from a special ore again their world's middle ages. They allow for a quieter kill, like one of MC says he has grown up playing with a bow and arrow, he has never used a gun, doesn't want to shoot himself in the foot lol It has links to their meditation and energy sources.

[muscle979]

I love the idea of a western fantasy. If you don't write it, I will!

Although now that I think about it, The Dark Tower series is a western fantasy.

I loved the Dark tower series. I'm surprised more people haven't tried something like that.

[Silver_Dragon]

I probably shouldn't, but I would like to voice my utter hatred of "fantasy." I don't know why people write it, and I don't know why people read it, but they do in large numbers and have ever since I was a kid.


Fair enough. Not everyone has to like fantasy.

However, the fantasy stories I appreciate most are the ones which include strong characters and demonstrate a good understanding of human relationships. As others have said here, not having limitations on your imagination when you're writing in the genre is part of the appeal. That being said, good fantasy authors do some research on their setting and the weapons/food/culture and whatever else they're describing.

My favourite fantasy series is the Earthsea Trilogy by Ursula K. LeGuin. The overarching theme has to do with how people deal (or don't deal) with the fact of their own mortality...the fantasy quest works well for the development of this theme.

[guamyankee]

Fair enough. Not everyone has to like fantasy.

However, the fantasy stories I appreciate most are the ones which include strong characters and demonstrate a good understanding of human relationships. As others have said here, not having limitations on your imagination when you're writing in the genre is part of the appeal. That being said, good fantasy authors do some research on their setting and the weapons/food/culture and whatever else they're describing.

My favourite fantasy series is the Earthsea Trilogy by Ursula K. LeGuin. The overarching theme has to do with how people deal (or don't deal) with the fact of their own mortality...the fantasy quest works well for the development of this theme.

Everything you're describing here reeks of George R.R. Martin. I feel sorry for people who won't read fantasy, because they are missing out on some great writing. Sure, there's some bad stuff in there, just like any other genre, but the good stuff is really, really, good.

[Mxxpower]

wouldn't Shadowrun be considered fantasy? That is more of a futuristic setting with cyber technology, guns and magic rolled into one.

I don't really believe that most fantasy now days is set in the dark ages, especially when anything involving angels and demons is classified as fantasy as well. Isn't Twilight considered fantasy?

[guamyankee]

wouldn't Shadowrun be considered fantasy? That is more of a futuristic setting with cyber technology, guns and magic rolled into one.

I don't really believe that most fantasy now days is set in the dark ages, especially when anything involving angels and demons is classified as fantasy as well. Isn't Twilight considered fantasy?

Yes to Twilight. Vampires and werewolves are fantasy.

Wouldn't Shadowrun be Science Fiction? Although sometimes there is a thin line between fantasy and sci-fi.

[thewordsmith]

Funny you should mention that. Obviously, from the number of responses, you now know about urban fantasy, etc. I just finished reading about half the books in The Dresden Files series. Fantasy, yes. Medieval, not. And, as others have mentioned, there are literally tons of other, non-medieval fantasy stories. I think, simply because of stories like TLotR and Eragon and the like, people tend to think first of that kind of Swords and Sorcerers setting. I'm sure if you think not too hard, you'll be able to bring to mind many other fantasies which have nothing to do with the middle ages or swords and other 'typical' fantasy fodder. Steampunk, by the way, is very hot and steampunk fantasy is a wide open territory that's building lots of (no pun intended) steam.

[jaywriting]

Why are medieval settings appealing? Ok I'll throw out a couple of ideas regarding this:

Magic. In a world where science is rudimentary at best, magic can flourish, giving the writer more scope to do as they please.

History. A lot of people enjoy history and are curious what it might have been like to live a thousand years ago. The writer doesn't need to be so imaginative since he can use historical research to flesh out his fantasy world.

Superiority. Oh look at how simple and barbaric people were back then. Aren't we all wonderfully advanced and clever in our modern world. Mutual backpatting ensues.

Chivalry. The medieval knight is a powerful and enduring image. Even Jedi wish they lived in the middle ages.

Well defined social structure. Kings are kings, peasants are peasants, and everyone knows their place. Even the poor stable boy who rises to greatness probably has royal blood.

Fur. Everyone looks cool in fur. Chainmail and fur is even better. Chainmail, fur and leather and you've got a hit.

Heroes, swords and guns. It is vaguely plausible that one man with a sword could battle through ten men with swords. Substitute swords for guns and its a lot harder to pull off. There is also something more appealing about slaying your foe face to face than blowing him up with the push of a button.

[Mxxpower]

Yes to Twilight. Vampires and werewolves are fantasy.

Wouldn't Shadowrun be Science Fiction? Although sometimes there is a thin line between fantasy and sci-fi.

According to wiki Shadowrun covered all the bases :)

"Shadowrun is a role-playing game set in a near-future fictional universe in which cybernetics, magic and fantasy creatures co-exist. It combines genres of cyberpunk, urban fantasy and crime, with occasional elements of conspiracy fiction, horror, and detective fiction."

[hyperchord24]

because said author has never owned a gun and would probably describe a .38 as having .22 LR ammo in it.

This statement precludes the fact that said authors have owned a sword and knows how to use it. Just because writers don't write about certain things doesn't mean they don't know about it. These sweeping statements you make are borderline trolling.

[Elgaisma]

This statement precludes the fact that said authors have owned a sword and knows how to use it. Just because writers don't write about certain things doesn't mean they don't know about it. These sweeping statements you make is borderline trolling.

plus when you are playing god with a world - your gun can be what you damn well want and fire what you like :) A sword doesn't have to handle the same way as it does on Earth - mine don't because they are made of a unique ore we don't have on earth, they are lighter, stronger and sharper.

[Link the Writer]

Agreed. Some neophyte fantasy writers think they have to make the fantasy as realistic as possible. (Like with our swords 'n' stuff.)

It's fantasy! You could create a race of characters who fights with their hands, feet, and jaws! :D

[Elgaisma]

Agreed. Some neophyte fantasy writers think they have to make the fantasy as realistic as possible. (Like with our swords 'n' stuff.)

It's fantasy! You could create a race of characters who fights with their hands, feet, and jaws! :D

yep - my world is what I would like to see not what I actually experience. The swords are what i would have liked to handle not what I actually did handle. The guns likewise would be a combination of what I would love to be possible. The magic is how I would love to be able to direct my meditation etc.

[Mist Walker]

What attracts me most about putting fantasy in a medieval setting is the imagery which is quite a bit of why I write in the first place. I'd much rather people were fighting with swords etc. than with guns, simply because I consider it to be cooler. Not to mention that guns aren't the most interesting of ways to kill if only because of how simple they are to use.

It was brought up earlier that it helps to avoid an alternate reality feeling. Who can say that if magic existed in whatever form then gunpowder and electricity would have been developed to such an extent? Trudi Canavan touched on the point in her FAQ page I think in that when she was coming up with the Black Magician Trilogy she was aiming for a point where we had the beginnings of gunpowder technology in our past but the use of magic had stopped it becoming too prevalent whilst the printing press was still coming into existence.

Continuing on that point, in my opinion at least, too much of a history to the world detracts from the story at hand. And the more technology there is, the more history there's going to be at which point you have to wonder how you can justify where things stand without a huge back-story. If you don't want the magic to have been some recent occurrence which opens up a few more issues as to why it happened.

But then there's writers such as Adrian Tchaikovsky who's written the Shadows of the Apt books, set a few centuries after an industrial revolution. It's completely fantasy but isn't the middle ages. So they're not stuck, it just works for them to be set their, part by convention and partly because it makes life easier in places.

Finally, copying Tolkein. I made it up to the Dead Marshes in The Two Towers before I lost interest. Writing has come on in the last half a century and it shows. Most of the fantasy I've read recently doesn't feature elves, dwarves, dragons etc. and when they do it's often in a different fashion. Robin Hobb's main series of books are a good example, and Karen Miller's Mage books include all the nightmarish creatures, but they're all myths and legends that people haven't seen for generations. Elves and dwarves can work, but they're usually done badly and as stereotypes and I think that's a lot of what people dislike about fantasy. But it's no worse than a tendency to use women doctors to get across their personality as a driven persona, or a gunslinging soldier and all that implies.

That'll do me for now.

[Mallory]

It's fantasy! You could create a race of characters who fights with their hands, feet, and jaws! :D

This post led to me figuring out a new idea, probably due to the imagery. Thanks for the flash of inspiration. I tried to give you some rep, but it says I've given out too much in the past 24 hrs -- I'll give you some later.

Mist Walker, to be honest, I find the movies much better. :) You bring up a good point that it's the badly-done ripoffs that give fantasy a bad name.

[guamyankee]

Good fantasy should still be more about the characters than the crazy world you've created, just because you can. This, I feel, was the downfall of Avatar. So, just because you can create a race that shoots bullets out their mouths and can walk on water, it doesn't necessarily mean you should.

[Elgaisma]

Good fantasy should still be more about the characters than the crazy world you've created, just because you can. This, I feel, was the downfall of Avatar. So, just because you can create a race that shoots bullets out their mouths and can walk on water, it doesn't necessarily mean you should.

I almost agree entirely - I actually think good fantasy is about the stories AND characters, more than the world.

I tend to create the crazy stuff as I write the stories, its what the stories need. I find it gets crazier the more stories I right lol Thanks to Lewis Carroll making an appearance in my third book all three now have cats with smiles :)

That race may well give you a major character that works in the story. I have a fire elemental race, sort of my elves, they are tall and skinny have flame blue skin that flickers, flame shaped ears, red hair and amber eyes. If they slap your face when angry you end up with burn blisters in the shape of a hand :) They use bows and arrows, drink a lot and have a reputation for flirting with anything that you can put a hat on.

They also have an abilty to make the other characters feel positive etc, one of them becomes a major character in my atonement book - it allows for the most fabulous love square.

My earth race are my sort of ogres, around 7ft tall long dark curly hair, beards, big booming voice and a love of bright colours, they have given me a character I am writing now.

[S-wo]

What Avatar had great characters. Aang, Zuko, Azula.

As for the topic not all fantasies are set in it. Medieval is probably more popular because of LOTOR. Harry Potter is very popular and it's a fantasy set in modern day. I just don't see that many set in Africa, the Middle East, or in a zany wacky world like setting.

[Terri]

I just don't see that many set in Africa, the Middle East, or in a zany wacky world like setting.

A lot of Terry Goodkind's series, Sword of Truth, takes place in the 'old world' which definitely resembles the middle east.

[Unit7]

What Avatar had great characters. Aang, Zuko, Azula.

As for the topic not all fantasies are set in it. Medieval is probably more popular because of LOTOR. Harry Potter is very popular and it's a fantasy set in modern day. I just don't see that many set in Africa, the Middle East, or in a zany wacky world like setting.

Pretty sure they were talking about the movie Avatar. But Last Airbender had a great cast of characters. Zuko being one of my favorite because he uses two swords... that and I just love how he starts off as this classic villian(for a childrens show anyways) and it turns out he really isn't a villian but rather a misguided young man.

[SashaMerideth]

After reading through this I thunk I am going to completely rewrite my book. Fantasy and science fiction set in àn alternative industrial revolution rather than the medieval setting it currently occupies.

[digitig]

I mean would you read a fantasy story with a dwarf waiting for a train, or a dark elf being a car salesman?
Have you read Neil Gaiman's "American Gods"?

[jwatson]

Ever heard of Harry Potter?

[Ellipse]

Have you read Neil Gaiman's "American Gods"?

This is an excellent book. You must read it. :D

[digitig]

This is an excellent book. You must read it. :D
Agreed, one of my favourites. My point being that "a dark elf being a car salesman" is nothing when you have a god working as a taxi-driver. I did wonder whether it really fitted within the fantasy genre, but then thought "god working as a taxi driver"...

[Elgaisma]

Agreed, one of my favourites. My point being that "a dark elf being a car salesman" is nothing when you have a god working as a taxi-driver. I did wonder whether it really fitted within the fantasy genre, but then thought "god working as a taxi driver"...

Did you ever watch God, The Devil and Bob ? It was wonderful.

My 'elves' and 'ogres' use mobile phones, have laptops etc My sort of ogre is my version of Q from James Bond. I hope people will want to read it cos I am writing it lol

[afrodite7]

-most people think middle ages when they think fantasy .i pesonaly (like many ,many,many other people)can't stand the middle ages when people didn't wash up,elves suck and everybody was white and sexism was the in thing.

my novel equals=elves,vamps,witches and other creatures on the internet+space travel+virtual reality+laser guns an swords,machine guns,alchemy, magic+cell phones+swords+glow in the dark parties...

yeah,i prefer my fantasy like that

[Melzaar the Almighty]

everybody was white

Er, you do know other countries existed at this time? :P I can't name anything due to sucktastic memory, but I'm vaguely-to-quite certain I've read or heard of fantasies set in medieval-ish China and India.