reviewing...alone

[violetinsideme]

I have noticed less an less reviews occuring. I look a bit pretentious with all of the "violetinsidemes" over on the poetry review board. If not reviewing is fear you are going to hurt feelings... so what. If it is fear you will not review harshly enough...so what. Practice, practice, practice. This is just a observation and a suggestion.:cool:

[Elgaisma]

In my case with poetry it was merely I don't have the qualifications to say anything beyond I like this or I don't like this. I don't understand rhyme or meter etc so a poet has to be outstanding for me to comment on their work.

[violetinsideme]

i have no formal training and my writing is rather sporadic... but I do it anyway:D

[Elgaisma]

Look at it this way how often do you review something outside your comfort zone ? I will periodically attack poetry but I am not good at it, I often have no idea why I like a piece. Just like I will look at a piece I don't like and scratch my head wondering why the poet bothered.

It's not through lack of trying - I have a list of poets I read and enjoy and I have tried with classes. However I am tone deaf and lack rhythm both hamper a proper understanding of poetry.

I don't restrict myself by genre but its like with commenting on essays written by an American I don't understand the way the US works with them and I can't really review them.

[violetinsideme]

I completely understand. I read many things on the forum, short stories, fiction, etc... and DO NOT have the ability to review them. I do it to educate myself and for enjoyment. I would expect someone outside of their genre or comfort zone would not necessarily want to review something they just popped by to read. I guess this was geared more towards poets and lyricist, or ANYONE that has quit reviewing.

[Reggie]

I do not know how to read poetry or don't understand the messages behind them. My literature teacher required us to write poetry, and I was not good at it. This is why I don't often reveiw poetry, not because it is boring or fun to read. I'll say the best way to review poetry or anything else, just read it and see if you like it. It is easy to tell someone rather you like it or not, but it isn't easy to tell them without hurting someone's feelings. I have yet to know that poetry is one of the hardest things for me to review, and I'm sure it can to other people--that is--if they absolutly have no experience reading or writing poetry.

[LordKyleOfEarth]

The amount (and quality) of reviews waxes and wanes with the season (school/life tends to occupy people in waves).

The lack of motion in the review rooms is what inspired Critique Week last year. I am sure it will make a come back this year too.

[PurpleCandle]

I would also like to mention another reason for less reviews in addition to LordKyle's reasons. Quite simply, I don't review people who post work who have low post counts without waiting several hours/a day. There is nothing worse than laying out a review only for it to be closed. For some reason 9 times out of 10 the poster doesn't follow the requirements to get the thread opened, which means I just wasted my time. Sometimes if I have time I will go check and see if they have made 2 quality review posts, but usually I just wait to see if a mod closes the thread. Unfortunately, I often forget I had something to say, time slips by and the piece becomes buried under new posts.

[LordKyleOfEarth]

Even if a thread is closed/deleted/set on fire by ethereal forces, you have not wasted your time. You gain the largest benefit from critiquing other people's work. You learn what they did wrong and how to fix it. You learn how to spot issues. All the author gets is a to-do list that they may (or may not) even agree with.

[Eunoia]

I feel guilty about how little I actually review on here. I'm trying to get back into it, but sometimes other things happen to take over and I can't concentrate on reviewing work. When I do review, I have to admit I mainly stick with short stories and novel excerpts. I don't really know enough about poetry to critique, although I do try sometimes, and similarly for script, I only really know about theatre plays and it seems to mostly be TV/film scripts. Sometimes I'm just not in the mood to critique something that isn't a short story/novel excerpt. Lame excuse I know. But actually, since you've brought this up, I'm going to set myself the challenge of reviewing a piece from every section, alternating between them. For example, day one I'll review a short story and a poem, day two I'll review a script and a non fiction piece and so on. Yeah, I'll totally do this!

[Boysarn]

The thing for me is that it can feel rather strange to review something when I feel that my writing skills is not as good as the original author. This happens to be the case a lot :)

[Baywriter]

I love reviewing poetry! I had a baby a few months ago, so I've been out of commission for a while. Now I'm finding the time to submit reviews, and I'm happy to be getting back into it. Maybe it'll help me start writing my own stuff again. But I do think people are put off by the length of some pieces. For me, I'm way more likely to review a short piece because between work, school, and my son, there isn't much time to go as in depth as I'd like to go.

[Manav]

Poetry is just unfamiliar territory for me, specially since the poems posted here are so different from the classics I have studied/read a long time ago in school. I do understand that reading, writing, understanding poems will help me in my story writing. But, when I am struggling a bit with vocab and grammar presently, I don't think I could be of any help

[Forkfoot]

I've learned a great deal about poetry by critiquing poetry. I knew next to nothing about it when I first came to this site; I think the first poem I posted here I capitalized the first letter of each line, 'cause I thought you were supposed to do that or something. I don't think I'd ever really written a poem before coming here, and the workshop educated me and gave me confidence.

[Trish]

I am new here and I admit am a bit intimidated by the reviewing. I don't want to offend anyone. I did my first review last night, and it was terrifying, then this morning realized that I had told him that a word wasn't a word! What I meant to say was that I didn't think it was the word he was looking for.......now I feel like an idiot. I edited myself, and I'll get over it, but sheesh it's hard!
I really want to become a part of the community here so I don't want to stomp on anyone, but I want to be honest too. That's what is holding me up.

*edit....now I just called what was early morning hours last night....and this morning what was just a few minutes ago. In my defense I was literally up ALL night with a 6 year old with a stomach bug, went to bed at 8 am and have only been awake a short time. I'm not as crazy as I seem :D

[fervish]

I'm new but the thing I think we are not realizing here is that everyone has different strengths and weakness that put together make a great resource for each other. I tackle what I know and learn as I go.

[Ion]

The problem is the medium.

There is no 'right' way to do poetry. You can't tell a poet that they can't capitalize every line, because they can. You can misspell words on purpose. You can mix and match whatever meter and structure you want. You can have one word on one line, skip three lines, put five words, and have the rest blank. You can't tell a poet that their message is too strange, or unrelated, because if you don't understand it, you're probably just not a part of the audience.

The problem with reviewing poetry on this site is that the poets rarely ask anything of their readers. They don't ask them what they thought their poem was about. They don't ask what kind of form it looked like they were trying to use. They don't ask what tone or emotion their poem evokes.

And they don't say what it was they were trying to do.

If I think your poem is sad, fine. But if you say you were trying to make your poem lonely, and I think it doesn't communicate that clearly, then I can give you feedback and tell you how I think you could make your poem seem more lonely than just sad.

If you don't give reviewers parameters to critique, there's nothing to critique, because it's poetry. You can't do poetry wrong.

It's a waste of time reviewing poetry if the poet doesn't give you anything to review.

[Forkfoot]

^^^ Very helpful post. Thanks.

[arron89]

Saying you can't do poetry wrong is maybe technically true (although I definitely don't believe it is), but it isn't helpful. Even if you have no idea what the poem is about, you can review it in formal terms--are the images effectively constructed? Is the format appropriate? Does it flow rhythmically? Are there obvious errors? Your initial response to a poem, even if you have no idea about poetry, is hugely important. Then on subsequent readings you work out what it's about, whether it succeeds or fails, how it might be improved. If the reader doesn't understand what a poem is trying to evoke, then clearly the poem is failing on some level, and the author doesn't need to spell it out for that to be clear. If you can see that the poet is trying to evoke something and it's not working, you can tell them. If they come back and say "oh, actually I meant this" then that's another problem entirely.

I dunno, I think a lot of people look at a poem, say "I don't get it" after one reading and give up. Really, there isn't a huge difference between a poem and any other prose; language works in the same way, regardless of the form. I think people should just trust their instincts more--it doesn't have to be this rigorous intellectual exercise.

That said, I hesitate to review some poetry if it seems like the content is too personal or confessional, because it often seems that if I offer an honest critique it'll be interpreted as some kind of attack. Thus, I tend to only review seasoned writers, or writers who've demonstrated they can take criticism. I wanna help people improve, but I don't wanna upset them too much.

[Ion]

True, arron.

Still, you have to admit that reviewing poetry offers a different set of challenges than reviewing standard prose. Mistakes in prose are easier to make out, while poetry tends to be a more nebulous medium requiring a unique set of skills to offer helpful, insightful advice.

[arron89]

Right, they're different, but I don't think they're beyond the reach of the average member of this site. The difficulty of poetry is only an illusion; really, most of the poetry on this site especially is very accessible, quite literal and doesn't really require a poetic background. Granted, there are some exceptions, but even those writers' work isn't too much more challenging to comprehend.

I guess I just think poetry should be more accessible than most people seem to believe it is. More members should give it a try; it will almost definitely help your prose work in some way.

[Sidewinder]

I agree with Arron -- we shouldn't view poetry as any less accessible than prose. It's not like cryptography -- you don't have to spend years studying poetry before you can "decipher" it. Studying it helps, but poetry reaches out to you in a very natural way, and you can access it by simply reacting to it.

I say go nuts reviewing poetry. If you're wrong then you're wrong. Don't worry about hurting someone's feelings. If they can't take the criticism then they don't have what it takes to be a poet. You've got nothing to lose and everything to gain.

[Elgaisma]

Fact is I struggle with meters, rhyme and don't particularly like having to decode my literature. I enjoy poetry but I don't want to have to understand it more to be honest - most people have areas of literature they are more comfortable with.

Whilst there are poems on here I enjoy - I do not feel equipped to offer any serious help or advice on them.

[Baywriter]

If nothing else, you can always comment on what you liked about a piece. There isn't a writer on here that can say they DON'T like hearing good things about their work. And the good things about a piece are every bit as important as the things that need work. Hearing what you do right helps you know what readers pick up on and enjoy and helps develop a sense of self in your style. Plus, the vote of confidence is always nice.

[Elgaisma]

You have no idea how many writers on here winge about someone just posting - I don't know why I liked it but I did.

Personally I like it but there are writers that find it offensive or useless. Often with poetry I don't know or have a reason.

[Baywriter]

Well, I hate it when someone just says "I liked it." There's a difference between that and actually explaining WHY you enjoyed it, which is what I was referring to.

[fervish]

Love the discussion on poetry, such good points. If I comment on a poem its because I see potential in it. I try to give what constructive criticism I have to see the poem reach its full potential. I love poetry, writing it, reading it and watching a poem evolve. Though I tend to think subtle changes will suffice.

[Sidewinder]

You have no idea how many writers on here winge about someone just posting - I don't know why I liked it but I did.

Personally I like it but there are writers that find it offensive or useless. Often with poetry I don't know or have a reason.

I guess I don't see a problem with it if you just have nothing to say about poetry. That's fair enough. Still, I think a lot of people could benefit from critiquing more poems. It's a lot of fun.

[Elgaisma]

I guess I don't see a problem with it if you just have nothing to say about poetry. That's fair enough. Still, I think a lot of people could benefit from critiquing more poems. It's a lot of fun.

The main thing is I am never going to be able to write poetry - so I like keeping it to I don't know why but I liked it.

With prose I HAVE to analyse it because I write it. I don't write poetry so I am quite happy with a piece of poetry to just find it funny, moving, poignant etc I don't want to or care about the why that is the poet's job to do that.

I have Keats, Burns, McGough, Plath, Sassoon, Tennyson, Larkin, Owen, Mitchell, Burns etc on my bookshelves and I enjoy them would like to keep it at that. No I would not find critting poems fun. I do have things to say about poetry but it is of the I liked that it moved me - or what was that about. Not many of the poets on here want to hear or care that actually I just liked it bumps up their post count and prevents them getting proper reviews and some find it offensive.

[daydreams]

Sometimes I wonder how many of those who do reviews honestly want to do them, and not simply because they have to get at least two reviews out. But then I guess if you really don't want to, there are other forums.

[Baywriter]

I thoroughly enjoy reviewing, actually. I like offering advice and enjoy pushing other writers to get better, or even just encouraging their current work is a good experience for me. Plus, reviewing helps me learn.

[Reggie]

The thing I about reviewing is following up on the same person you reviewed with to see how his or her writing is going. I often tend to review the same person rather than many, many person without coming back to that person to see how he or she is doing. I think it makes the person more valuable and more encouraging to do better that way. :)

[psychotick]

Hi,

For me I do try to regularly do some reviewing. But I read and write novels, its practically all I know, so I wouldn't feel good critiquing outside of this. Maybe its a comfort zone thing in part, but equally I don't actually know what makes a good short story versus a bad one, or a good poem versus a bad one.

Cheers.

[Dithnir]

I think Ion earlier in this thread has a really solid point about poets putting up some framing for their poem. Poetry is so intense, every single word having to work its ass off, usually highly metaphoric, abstract/impressionist, that I can't say much more than point out when I've found something works.

The reason I don't critique much on that forum is that I have a quite primal regard for poetry without a framework. It either works or it doesn't, and if it doesn't, none of it does. Sure there might be a nice turn of phrase there, but poems are deeply holistic. To criticise a poem for me would be to take issue with pretty much all of it, but it then feels like, 'hey you don't like it you don't like it, no point in tearing it apart if you don't feel there's anything to redeem it or any tweaking that could improve it.'

So I apologise for that, I enjoy reading the odd poem on there from time to time, but I guess I'm more a prose than poetry guy.

---------- Post added at 04:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:38 PM ----------

I think Ion earlier in this thread has a really solid point about poets putting up some framing for their poem. Poetry is so intense, every single word having to work its ass off, usually highly metaphoric, abstract/impressionist, that I can't say much more than point out when I've found something works.

The reason I don't critique much on that forum is that I have a quite primal regard for poetry without a framework. It either works or it doesn't, and if it doesn't, none of it does. Sure there might be a nice turn of phrase there, but poems are deeply holistic. To criticise a poem for me would be to take issue with pretty much all of it, but it then feels like, 'hey you don't like it you don't like it, no point in tearing it apart if you don't feel there's anything to redeem it or any tweaking that could improve it.'

So I apologise for that, I enjoy reading the odd poem on there from time to time, but I guess I'm more a prose than poetry guy.

[Dithnir]

I think Ion earlier in this thread has a really solid point about poets putting up some framing for their poem. Poetry is so intense, every single word having to work its ass off, usually highly metaphoric, abstract/impressionist, that I can't say much more than point out when I've found something works.

The reason I don't critique much on that forum is that I have a quite primal regard for poetry without a framework. It either works or it doesn't, and if it doesn't, none of it does. Sure there might be a nice turn of phrase there, but poems are deeply holistic. To criticise a poem for me would be to take issue with pretty much all of it, but it then feels like, 'hey you don't like it you don't like it, no point in tearing it apart if you don't feel there's anything to redeem it or any tweaking that could improve it.'

So I apologise for that, I enjoy reading the odd poem on there from time to time, but I guess I'm more a prose than poetry guy.