Well, I'm pleased to announce a new upgrade to our review system.

Currently if you want to post a piece of your writing you do so in The Review Room (http://www.writingforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=18). However, there was no way to ensure that every piece got replied to.

This new feature will limit the amount of stories/poetry/writing you can post in The Review Room. While this addition won't guarantee all posts will get reviewed, it will certainly increase the odds.

Now, in order to earn posting credit, you must post reviews other people's writing. For every two replies you give someone else's writing you're allowed to post a piece of your own. The goal of this is not to limit the amount of writing posted, but rather to increase the amount of reviews we give each other.

I'm hopeful this will we a positive addition to the site and the way posting our writing is handled.

Also note that it's the first of some new major modifications to come.

If you find any errors, bugs, or other problems, please note them in this thread.

Thanks,

A very good idea LP.

Seems flawless - good initiative. :)

I think that this is a most wonderful idea Lp.
I do hope that it works and think that it would really benefit all areas.

Tor

This is very cool, but is there a place where we can see how many stories we're allowed to post?

Good point Ivan. How do we know how many posting credits we have?

yea, what i want to know though is tat i tend to review poetry, does this mean that for me to post a story, i have to review a stroy? j.w.
Heather

There really isn't a way to know how many credits you have.

And this should work for all forums in the review forum together, not individually. You should be able to review for poetry and post a story and vice versa.

okiee dokiee :)

There really isn't a way to know how many credits you have.

Hmmm...bugger. Do you think you could add one?

Hmmm...bugger. Do you think you could add one?

It's possible, though unlikely. I'll see what I can do.

Possibly a good idea to repost this as a sticky in the Review Room forums?

If nothing else, it makes the intro responses easier!

Seriously though, it seems like a good idea. I was a bit taken aback when I returned from a couple days' absence with a story revision ready to post, and found I needed reviewing creds before I could do so. :)

But it will cut down on newcomers popping in, posting a couple things for review, then disappearing when they receive suggestions instead of unqualified praise.

I hate seeing people getting discouraged when it can be so easily prevented.

Seriously though, it seems like a good idea. I was a bit taken aback when I returned from a couple days' absence with a story revision ready to post, and found I needed reviewing creds before I could do so. :)

What, do we not get points from crits made before the introduction of this policy?

EDIT: Actually, disregard this. It should have been obvious, in retrospect, that backdating would take a ridiculous amount of effort on the part of the staff. Please feel free to delet this post, or leave it as a testament to my stupidity :p

seppuku would erase it... maybe.

You have to post two reviews in the review room before you post your own work.

That way everyone gets a fair chance at having their work reviewed. So on a suggested note. Why not review those pieces that have recieved no replies. instead of reviewing something with four or more replies.










~Raven.

seppuku would erase it... maybe.

This seems to be becoming a bit of an obsession with you, adamant... I'd be worried if I were you.

Why not review those pieces that have recieved no replies. instead of reviewing something with four or more replies.

I actually prefer to do this. That way there is less chance of me repeating/contradicting a previous crit, and looking like more of an idiot than usual :D

I actually prefer to do this. That way there is less chance of me repeating/contradicting a previous crit, and looking like more of an idiot than usual some here sunshinee. same here, lol. :p

I actually prefer to do this. That way there is less chance of me repeating/contradicting a previous crit, and looking like more of an idiot than usual

Why worry, unless you contradict yourself? Different eyes may (hopefully will) see different things when looking at the same work.

Why worry, unless you contradict yourself? Different eyes may (hopefully will) see different things when looking at the same work.

True, I suppose, but I'm a bit paranoid about making an idiot out of myself.

Nah - I just prepare to laugh twice as hard at me than anyone else will. Life is too short to spend it in fear of making mistakes.

Too true. After all, you make them anyway :p

Boy, do I ever! :D

I don't worry about making myself look like an idiot...I worry about making it apparent that I'm an idiot. =D

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."- Abraham Lincoln

The new rules don't prevent newcomers from popping in, posting a couple of insightful reviews like "Agreed", going ahead and posting their works for review, and then vanishing.

Is it worth considering to require a Member status or higher as well? I believe the threshhold from Junior Member to Member is 10 posts, isn't it? That doesn't sound too burdensome if they really are serious about taking part in the forums.

I agree with Cogito. There has been one specific example of that, and Cogito's solution seems to be the best way to deal with it (short of having a mod monitor it specifically).

I know I've already mentioned this, but it doesn't actually specify the two review requirement anywhere in the Review Room (that I can see, I'm quite happy to be proved wrong). If this could be rectified, it might make things a little clearer for newcomers.

They do see it as soon as they try to start a thread.

Umm... Can't say that I'm really understanding this system. I know I'm probably the only one, but... Well, I really don't like it. But mainly because my computer doesn't seem to want to work properly in the "Review Room", and therefore, I can't post any of my pieces.

You need to post (at least) two reviews of others' work to be allowed to create a thread of your own.

If you have scripting disabled in your browser, you probably won't see the message box telling you you need to post two revies before you can post each new piece for review.

This post gives some ideas why the review room is set up this way: Why Write Reviews Before Posting My Work? (http://www.writingforums.org/showpost.php?p=65432&postcount=1)

Umm... Can't say that I'm really understanding this system. I know I'm probably the only one, but... Well, I really don't like it. But mainly because my computer doesn't seem to want to work properly in the "Review Room", and therefore, I can't post any of my pieces.

i'm not sure what you mean.

In order to post your own you must review two other people's first. :D

i'm not sure what you mean.

In order to post your own you must review two other people's first. :D

I understand that part. But where are we reviewing them? Are we reviewing them on this site or in that "Review Room" link you posted? I tried to go there, and it did not show up right on my computer.

Respond to posts in the area just above where the names of members that are currently on are listed. This includes: Short Stories, Poetry, Song Lyrics, Scripts and Screenplays, Non-Fiction, and Novels.

I understand that part. But where are we reviewing them? Are we reviewing them on this site or in that "Review Room" link you posted? I tried to go there, and it did not show up right on my computer.

All of the sites in "The Review Room" Category. That's where this is taking effect. Thing includes Short Stories, Poetry, Lyrics, and Non-Fiction.

Didn't realize there was an echo in here. Hehe...

Haha. Sorry Adam.

I'm new here and I want to know how things work.

If you click on the newbie packet title in my signature I am fairly certain that should hold the information you may require.

If not you can pm one of the moderators who are the purple/pink colour or really any member or one of us reviewers and we would be more than happy to help you out. :)

Hope this helps you.

I love this good idea. In this way we can gain more response.

Thank u.

... I really don't get this. I've been commenting on people's pages, and I can no longer make any new threads.

... this review room doesn't seem to make sense to me.

You leave this website for a few months and the whole format changes.

EYE OPENER! lol. :)

I'm not sure why you can't post a thread. Seems strange since your the first this happened too.

Hi Laimtoe,

You posted 1 review that I can see, so you need to post one more before you can begin a new Review Room thread.

Only replies in review Room threads are considered reviews, and you need to post two reviews for each new Review Room thread you start.

Also, the review count bedins from the beginning of July, when this was put into place. Prior replies in the Review Room don't count.

I hope this clarifies

You can, of course, post minimal reviews to allow yourself to post. However, I hope you will take advantage of the opportunity to really dissect the works you review, to gain the maximum benefit from the process.

See the post Why Write Reviews Before Posting My Work? (http://www.writingforums.org/showpost.php?p=65432&postcount=1) for more info.

I'm new here, but I have to say that I like this idea. Not because it gives me the chance to learn by reviewing others' works. Rather, it is a damn fine way to ensure that most people's works get reviewed at some point or another.

I have posted one piece of work in the 'Novels' section of The Review Room, and I am very anxious to see what everyone here thinks of it. I was happy to oblige to the new rules about reviewing before posting, simply because I know what it feels like to want my own work reviewed.

I'm not sure who it was earlier in this thread who said they couldn't stand it when people get discouraged because a reviewer criticizes their work, but I am on the same page with you. I take criticism as helpful rather than hurtful, and use it to better my work.

thats a good idea that way no one is left outhttp://writingforums.org/images/skins/cloudskin/smilies/smile.gif

unfortunately it doesn't always work that way. I am not meaning to bea bummer about this good idea, but I have found that my work is hardly critiqued, and when I post a poem I make sure I do way more than three reviews because I am not very good at them. As I write this I am wondering if other have this problem or if it is just my boring poetry? I do also know that there are reviewers in the forum who will critique if I ask them too but for some reason I feel wierd about that.

Unfortunately, it's like the old saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." Even with the changes, the volume of material that gets posted in the Review Rooms often exceeds what the reviewers have time to devote time to. And some of that is and always will be that some new joiners only join to post their new masterpiece, so they go through the motions to qualify to put up their story or poem. After that, many of them only return to view the comments, and then vanish.

Please, don't be shy about asking for reviews. Sometimes it's the only way a reviewer will see a new piece before it gets washed out with the flood tides.

Although the Review Team tries to focus on pieces that have gone unanswered, that can mean they also see the new joiner first and assume that the veteran member will have no problems getting a review.

I personally try to review everything that is posted in the novels forum, simply because that is what I feel I am best with. I do review short stories sometimes, but I'll seldom venture into the poetry forum, since I am not confident in my own poetic abilities to offer people advice on their own. My reviews of poetry tend to be limited to my personal opinion.

I forgot to mention (since I got lost in my negativity) that I like your idea on how to solve the "no reviews for me" problem Lp :D
and yes cogito I will have to gather up my nerves and ask a reviewer to look at my stuff.

It's not a flaw-proof system but it certainly helps. We currently have additional reviewing features in development that will hopefully increase the details in a review and it's length. So keep an eye out. :P

wordwizard I do apologise that I have missed your work and I will make more of an effort to review your work in the near future as with everyone's work as well.

I look forward to the changes Lp.

Don't worry Tor we umderstand and hey with current events i think large exceptions will be made. ;)

Possibly a good idea to repost this as a sticky in the Review Room forums?

Seems that we all walk as ourselves and as someone we want to portray to others, so add one more person to that walk and there's the third.

I'm not sure who it was earlier in this thread who said they couldn't stand it when people get discouraged because a reviewer criticizes their work, but I am on the same page with you. I take criticism as helpful rather than hurtful, and use it to better my work.

I'll agree with everyone on this in that I like the system. And I'll agree with you, Forsyth and Cogito, on that criticism note. My problem comes when people don't have the patience to adequately "get" something, and so then move on to something that's easier to review. Or they respond negatively without saying why.

Absolutely, too many people review what they find "easy".

I try to always find something positive to say about what i'm reviewing, and if I can't... (which is rare) then i'll give a reason and advice on improvement.

How many more reviews do I have to make in order to grant me the right to submit a short story? I have made two reviews already.

Also, is the process of allowing a member to post a piece of writing automated or manual?

Once you make 2 reviews you are able to post a submission to the review room, it is an automated process.

Once you make 2 reviews you are able to post a submission to the review room, it is an automated process.

Under the "Short Stories" subforum?

You can make your reviews anywhere in the review forum and be able to post wherever you like in there.

You can review a poem and lyric and then post in short stories.

How many more reviews do I have to make in order to grant me the right to submit a short story? I have made two reviews already.

Also, is the process of allowing a member to post a piece of writing automated or manual?

Reviews are only counted in the Review Room forums. Reviewing something posted in a contest thread is good practice, but doesn't count toward the requirements for posting your own piece in the Review Rooms. And it is an automated process, but the quality of the reviews you received may reflect the effort you put into the reviews you post.

Despite the fact that I really don't like reading, I do think this is a good idea. I generally listen to audiobooks.
I am a bit confused though. How do I review? I clicked the link and it forwarded me to a different, confusing site. If the reviews are on another site, how can you link them to this. I doubt you would look at every review and manually add a point to the account on the other site. Even if you did, how would you link one account to another? I couldn't even register on that site as Scooter so what do I do?

To review a poem, short story, lyric, novel, etc... you simply go into those areas and click on the title of a piece you wish to review and post a reply.

The area to do reviews is in the review room at the bottom of the forum. That link takes you to an area to discuss reviewing in general, techniques and so forth.

What you review is further down in the areas in which you post your own work.

I hope that this helps you to understand a little better. Again sorry for confusions.

The Review Room - Writing Forums (http://www.writingforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=18) - to the reviewing area of the forum also the posting area.

(hope this helps)

The stores up for review should be taken down after 2-3 weeks or say 5-10 reviews to allow new ones to be posted and to keep the area clean. IMHO

Yes but in doing so people can't go back to a piece to look over a review that they had received.

Reviews often help not just the writers of the pieces but the future readers as well. I think that it is good to be able to look back on past submissions myself and past reviews as it is interesting to see how far writers hve come and often you will find some helpful tips in older submission threads.

I don't see removing peoples work would benefit the forum at all unless the threads contained offensive, discriminative or derogative contents that go against the rules of the forum.

Torana

The stores up for review should be taken down after 2-3 weeks or say 5-10 reviews to allow new ones to be posted and to keep the area clean. IMHO

I actually do see what you mean. Rather than remove them however, I think it would be better to archive them in another forum. If you were to remove them, then it might be a good idea to just send an e-mail to the author with all the reviews so that they can file it themselves and save space on the website.

By the way, thank you for your explanation Torana, it is much more clear now.

I don't think removal is the way to do it. Just let them drop off the first few pages.(as I assume they do already, lol)

The default view sorts the threads in reverse order of the newest post of the thread, so the pieces most recently added or commented on appear first.

But as Torana pointed out, reviews are not only for the benefit of the author. Reviewers learn by writing reviews, and all members can learn by looking over pieces alongside their reviews. There is also value in looking over the reviews you have written over time, because reviews are also an area people learn to do better with practice.

Exactly, why remove them?

Sorry, to do two posts in a row, but I am concerned as to how often I should post something in the review room. I tend to do a lot more reviewing than posting, so I pretty much always have pleanty of reviews stored up. How do I know when just because I can post a new submission, it doesn't mean it's been long enough since the last one to do so?

My feeling is that after a few weeks, they gotten all the reviews they're going to get. I like the suggestion of returning them to the author and then taking them down. I, for one, will take mine off after a week or two. No sense in cluttering up things. The fewer works available, the more reviews they get and if the author has 'moved on' as it has been suggested, why waste my time reviewing something that the author will never see. I want to work with the anxious? Keep it fresh.

phurst: Please do not remove works from the Review Rooms. You may have gotten all the benefit from thame you were looking for, but the entire forum benefits from seeing other work and its reviews.

The freshest threads always appear first in the forums, unless you specifically change your view settings. There is no need to "reduce clutter".

Etan Isar, reviews don't expire. You need to have two reviews later than July 2007 (when the new requirements began) for every new piece you post for review, but there is no "freshness" requirement. Hopefully, the strongest incentive will be that the more you review, the better you will become at going over your own work critically, and the better the quality you will deliver.

At what point does a piece change from being posted for critique to being published. It's a fine line after a period and once the reviews stop coming and others have had a chance to look, I would prefer that by posting be deleted. Take a look and see when the last time was that some of the threads were even visited. I'll bet you have plenty abandoned postings.

While it is generally preferable to leave a work for future reading, it's not a rule. It's your writing, so if you'd like it removed, feel free to remove it.

That is true, of course. I should have been clearer that it's not a rule. It is your work, and you have every right to remov or alter it as you see fit. However, if you do decide to remove it, other writers will not be able to lbenefit from the analysis as well later.

You'll only be able to change your own posts, though. If someone quoytes parts of your eork in their comments, You won't be able to edit the quotes in other posts.

Generally, if you put something up for review, you can generally plan on it remaining to a greater or lesser degree.

Any time you post work on the web, you are, in essence, publishing it. Anyone can see it, save a copy for later reference, and archiving sites can store it. There's really no such thing as "unpublishing" it.

But in extraordinary circumstances (i.e. it is necessary for publication) you could apply to a moderator to have the thread deleted. But you'd need a very good reason for them to do so.

It wouldn't work for publication. Publishers care about whether the work has EVER been published, which includes posting on the web. However, you are correct that the mods can remove a piece and its review comments completely if there is a compelling need.

I cannot post in the review room.
Its a .com. My parents have blocked all .coms from my computer.
What am I going to do now?

The Review Room is a collection of forums on this site for the purpose of dissecting members' writing to suggest possible improvements. In order to post your own work in the Review Room for review, you first need to post two or more reviews on other authors' pieces in the Review Room.

The intent is to learn the art of reviewing as an integral part of writing. By learning to critacally examine other people's work, you learn to look over your own work with a sharper eye.

Just do the best you can. No one expects your first reviews to be perfect, any more than anyone could expect your first story to be flawless.

Welcome to the Writing Forums(.org) site!

Thank you.
My grammar is horrible though.
I'll try my best though and I won't give up. And thank you for clearing the confusion.

I'm not sure why that has happened. This forum is a .org actually and so is the review room as far as I know. It shouldn't be a .com at all.

I think that you should PM the administrator Lpspider and question him about the problems you are experiencing.

Well, there is another site : writingforums.com. I went there by mistake once.

On the topic of the Review Room - please don't post the same piece in more than one Review Room forum. It's a workshop, not a gallery, and you will benefit more from having all the responses (and revisions!) in the same thread.

Duplicate postings for review may be merged without notice at the moderators' discretion.

Well, there is another site : writingforums.com. I went there by mistake once.

I checked that site out too. It has a nice layout, but I don't think the members are as good as the ones here.

Well, there is another site : writingforums.com. I went there by mistake once.

i was a member there for years and left when a new member who'd followed me there from another site where he was abusive to me and others, was allowed by the admin to 'stalk' and harass me mercilessly for months, and i was actually taken to task by them for trying to defend myself from his public attacks... this site has been a welcome relief... it's currently the best place on the net by far, for aspiring writers, thanks to simon/hull's raven and the rest of the admin here... they run a friendly ship and don't allow such bullies to operate with impunity, as wf.com does...

count your blessings, that they started this one!

love and hugs, maia

i was a member there for years and left when a new member who'd followed me there from another site where he was abusive to me and others, was allowed by the admin to 'stalk' and harass me mercilessly for months, and i was actually taken to task by them for trying to defend myself from his public attacks... this site has been a welcome relief... it's currently the best place on the net by far, for aspiring writers, thanks to simon/hull's raven and the rest of the admin here... they run a friendly ship and don't allow such bullies to operate with impunity, as wf.com does...

count your blessings, that they started this one!

love and hugs, maia

I absolutely agree with you. The level of maturity is much higher on this site. That other site was the first one I went to and it was awful.

The level of maturity is much higher on this site.

and that's with the same wide age range here, as there, besides!... which speaks well for both our members and our staff... so, kudos to our young folks and all of US! ;-)

The problem there was, atleast for me, not enough replies and meaningful comments. Everybody on here seems to be highly active.

Um... I go to the review room but get redirected to vBulletin?
I would like to review and post but I am not sure where to do this.
Thank you for your time.

Which forum in particular is doing this, arteleis?

Should there be much of a delay between the time I reply to a message and the time I get posting credit? I replied to a couple of shortstories this afternoon but it still says I cant post

Only responses in the Review Room forum count as reviews. You need to post at least two reviews before you can post an item of your own for review. The effort you put into your reviews will generally have an impact on how much effort people are willing to invest in reviewing your work, too.

I went thier and tried to login in, but it wouldn't let me, I tried to register but it said someone already had Eric for a username. What is going on??

The Review Room forums are a part of this site. They are not a separate site. Your current login is what you use for posting in that area as well.

You will not be able to post your own work for review until you have reviewed at least two pieces written by other members, as I mentioned in my reply to your introduction post.

On the Writing Forums home page, read the material in the blue Important Links box at the top of the right hand side.

I actually like the idea, a good insurance that many more postings
will get feedback. Thanks, Ehoeveler

Good rule.

Ok I'm confussed. I was just looking around and I noticed that the link to the reveiw room on the first post of this thread is this site: http://www.vbulletin.com/ When I tried to log in there using my user and password from her and it said the password or user was wrong. The thing is the review room I posted my work in was this page on this site: http://www.writingforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=18 Thanks for clearing this up for me.

Write on
NovelShorts

Thank you for pointing that out, NovelShorts. I've gone back and fixed the link in the first post of the thread.

The vBulletin link is to the site that created the software the forum runs under, so it would requiore different login credentials

Thanks for clearing that up, Cogito. I understand now.

since im not very good but i love to write and this seems to wet my my fire when i have to do all of this....

If you feel it's too much work to do it for someone else, why should anyone do it for you?

High-five that one, adamant.

What exactly is it that you don't like about the system?

It's designed to stop the same people always recieving critiques and nobody else and to ensure that every piece of work on here is critiqued. Its not fair of anyone to expect members to critique your work if you can't even be bothered to take a look at theirs.

The system is also designed to teach you to read with a critical eye. It is an essential skill for any writer.

Cogito is right. The skills you develop critiquing other people's works can be applied to your own, thus improving your writing.

This is a really good rule. :) I try to review those who manage to catch my interest and who are not getting that many reviews. Thank you for the wonderful opportunity to read other people's reviews, story snippets, and then give my own reviews. I'm not yet good at it, since I've never reviewed original work before (except my friends), but I'll do my best. We shall see if I ever am able to post anything of my own for reviewing, though. :)