Reorganization?

[evizaer]

I think that one reason why this site may seem dead is that there are too many forums spread out in a shallow structure.

Here's my suggestion for reorganization. The goal is to make the front page more attractive, to make it show higher post totals, and to focus the individual forums more effectively.



+Site Related
--Announcements/Rules
--Suggestions and Feedback
+Community
--Off Topic/The Lounge
--Games
+Contests
--Prose
--Poetry
+On Writing
-+Prose
--+The Short Story
----Reviews
--+The Essay
----Reviews
--+The Novel
----Reviews
---Story Telling
---The Art of Language
-+Poetry
---Reviews


The basic forums (The Short Story, The Essay, The Novel, Story Telling, Poetry) are general discussion forums for those particular types of writing. They each have a relevant sub-forum for reviews. Contests can be placed into those individual forums where they're appropriate.

That's just an idea, of course, and by no means do I think it's perfect. With some reorganization, this place could certainly be more appealing. It's quite annoying to have to scroll down the page for so long to get to what I want. All those forums with below 1,000 posts seem vacant to the passerby--my idea would condense the forums into more popular, though slightly less specific subforums.

[Banzai]

Looks intresting, but you seem to have missed out the introductions forum, which I think is an important part, as it makes new members feel welcomed into the community.

Also, I think that the Writing Contests need their own forums, as they are a major attraction to the site, and a major part of what we offer.

Just some thoughts.

[Bluemouth]

I'll admit something has gone wrong recently because I'm finding myself coming on here and having nowhere that I want to post in. It's annoying. Do we have any sub-topics such as Movies, Music, Games etc. that aren't all directed into the lounge, instead have a place of their own? That could help to attract more users ... unless, of course, that seems to detract from the writing site aspect.

[Ryankia]

What about dividing up the poetry a bit into categories. I know it may seem redundant, but that way people know what to expect when they enter a specific forum. Your happy and your dark poetry aren't all smushed together.

[SeaBreeze]

Here I was thinking that the place seems fine. O.o

[Banzai]

I'll admit something has gone wrong recently because I'm finding myself coming on here and having nowhere that I want to post in. It's annoying. Do we have any sub-topics such as Movies, Music, Games etc. that aren't all directed into the lounge, instead have a place of their own? That could help to attract more users ... unless, of course, that seems to detract from the writing site aspect.

Perhaps subforums within the Lounge? That way they are still confined to one forum, but things are a little more organised.

[Cogito]

Although the Community Interaction (including the Lounge) are where the highest post volume is concentrated, it's not where the site owner wants the focus of the site to be.

The Site Informaton forums are at the head because that is information everyone should see first - announcement, new member introductions, etc.

Next we have the contests collected, by popular request. These are of great interest to new joiners, and therefore attract new members.

After that, we have the Writing Issues, where most of the general discussion about writing is concentrated. This used to be located after Community Interaction, but was moved up to emphasize the writing focus of the site and to de-emphasize the general chatroom aspect of the site; chatting really doesn't need the advertisement of early placement.

Finally, the Review Rooms atre placed last, because they are primarily intended to be a workshop, and we don't wish to encourage new joiners to head directly there and immediately post works for praise - we do everything possible to let them know that it it is not just a refrigerator to post their favorite writings, it is a place where the writing will ideally be disassembled down to the chassis and examined for possible improvements.

That is the logic of the overall site layout, which I happen to agree with.

Certainly there are details which could be changed. The General Writing seems out of place to me in the Community interaction, and I am constantly having to look through it as well as the Writing Issues section when trying to find a particular discussion thread. And the idea of Poetry subdivisions might be good, but I'm not sure what subdivisions are really helpful.

If a particular user spends most of his or her time in one section or forum, he or she could always point the site link in Favorites there instead of the Home page, and then navigate outward.

But the reason the site traffic seems to have dropped is well understood. It really has to do with a few particularly active members being unavailable at the present time. I don't believe this condition constitutes an alarming trend. We've actually had quiet an influx of new joiners lately, enough so that the Reviewers are having a tough time keeping up with the review requests. Again, our absent active members are also normaly veryu active with reviews, so that also is probably a transient condition.

[Kit]

I have to agree here. The forums have been organised as they are in order to emphasize the writing aspect of the site. In the past, the community section did used to belong above the writing section but then more and more pepole began to focus on the games and the lounge/off-topic sections, which detracted from the aims of the site.

I'm not particularly against having sub-forums, but perhaps you should send a PM to our site owner about this? I'm sure he'd be able to talk more about it.

[SeaBreeze]

Kit and Cogito are right and I'm inclined to ask you if you have a forum of your own. The layout here is great but I'm sure LP wouldn't mind any suggestions. Go for it and suggest this. I'm sure he'll take it into consideration.

[evizaer]

I've administered at least 2 forums that have had more traffic than this one. If I had put those forums in a structure based on the same reasoning as the current one here, they would never have gotten as popular.

Your reasoning is valid at its face, but it's not really based on how people think when they look at forums--and that means it won't lead to a busier and flourishing forum. You can always subdivide forums into subforums ad nauseum and all that does is create forums that have fewer posts and, likewise, less interest. You end up having a lot of subforums that have relatively little interest when there is actually a LOT of interest in the site; Then you wonder why the place is so dead. It is not dead, just struggling to fill unfocused interest.

There's a big trade-off in forum structuring. You have to keep things busy enough so people don't get bored and go away, but you don't want to have them so busy that people are put off by it. You usually will create subforums when a particular forum is too busy and merge forums when individual subforums are not busy enough. As things stand now, these forums are leaning towards the not-enough-traffic end of things.

The organizational consideration is also important, but less so than the traffic consideration. The forums should be logically delineated, with as little ambiguity as possible. Splitting "dark" from "light" poetry may seem reasonable at its face, but it creates difficulty where there wasn't in the past: How do you tell a light poem from a dark one? That's a question that most likely none of us here can answer certainly nor do we have the authority to make such a claim--only the poet does (and we all know that the poet doesn't always have the clearest view of their work). Whereas most poetry and prose is easily differentiated on the bounds of its type of writing, the content is always up to interpretation.

"Wouldn't it be nice if we had a separate forum for..." suggestions are almost never useful. People have a tendency to want to break every little interest out into its own forum--If you listen to them, it is often to the community's detriment. You have to consider a lot of factors that the average user does not consider when they claim they want a subforum: The way this topic is discussed, what subcommunities are involved in the discussion, why the topic is discussed--to name a few.

[Cogito]

But traffic is not the only consideration, as was already said. We don't exactly "wonder why the place is so dead." That is a temporary situation.

[mammamaia]

Certainly there are details which could be changed. The General Writing seems out of place to me in the Community interaction, and I am constantly having to look through it as well as the Writing Issues section when trying to find a particular discussion thread. And the idea of Poetry subdivisions might be good, but I'm not sure what subdivisions are really helpful.

i totally agree that 'general writing' does not belong in 'community interaction' as it's directly related to writing, and not socializing... i hope it will be moved to where it more logically belongs...

as for poetry subdivisions, i can't agree that they might be good, since dividing by type [i.e., traditional and modern or rhymed and blank/free verse] would seriously diminish the number of viewers of each... members who think they only like one type, wouldn't be exposed to the others and thus miss out on perhaps widening their horizons, by coming across pieces they like, in spite of their pre-set preferences...

just my thoughts on the matter... any assent?

[evizaer]

But traffic is not the only consideration, as was already said. We don't exactly "woder why the place is so dead." That is a temporary situation.
Why are you so short on traffic, then?

[Crimson Threnody]

as for poetry subdivisions, i can't agree that they might be good, since dividing by type [i.e., traditional and modern or rhymed and blank/free verse] would seriously diminish the number of viewers of each... members who think they only like one type, wouldn't be exposed to the others and thus miss out on perhaps widening their horizons, by coming across pieces they like, in spite of their pre-set preferences...

People do that already. And even more so, tend to pick apart pieces simply because they do not like the style or type of poetry, rather than its poetic nature and if it is structurally sound.

[phurst]

I'm new to the forum and I can see what my problem has been. It turns out to be mostley poetry if you look at the number of submissions. Then when you get to the other review sections, you can see where there are only 1 to 2 reviews for a post and that doesn't encourage anyone. I have had several (means more than 3) that stayed for over a week and got 0,0,1,2 reviews. Waste of my time right? And then the contests. What good is a contest where the number of entries exceed the number of votes? I came to this forum to review and have my work reviewed. I already have a few places for socializing. If the main purpose is writing and reviewing, that is where the focus needs to be. If you are generating 2Xs the volume from poetry then peraps you should go to poetry only. If you want to stay where you are, you better get your users and reviewers out of the poetry and into the other sections. And as I have said before, anything gteater than a week old is never reviewed so you should just delete the thread so the focus can remain on the newly submitted.

[evizaer]

If you can give someone a reason (aside from money) to read ten pages of text that they may absolutely hate, and whose quality may be atrocious, and write up their opinion on it, I'll give you a medal. That's a lot of reading and thinking to be done for just kicks.

Poetry gets so much attention because of two things:
1.) it's short.
2.) pretty words.

Much like movies that get a lot of public attention are 1 1/2 hours long and have good visuals.

[ILTBY]

I visit the site every day, but I have to agree with Blue in that I feel I don't really have anywhere much to post when I come on. I enjoy posting in the Short Stories review section, but usually only in the Crime and Thriller, General Fiction and Horror categories. I don't really enjoy reading poetry so I avoid that and I don't participate in the Lounge much because I can never really contribute. I think my issue is that I only enjoy spending time in a small part of the site and if there's nothing new in it, I'll only spend about 5 minutes here and then leave, so I suppose I should be more open-minded and read different sections.

I don't really have any suggestions on how the site could improve, I guess I would like to see more stories posted in the categories I listed above, but that's just personal preference.

[Cogito]

Insofar as getting reviews is concerned, I think that when Daniel has the time to rework the Recent Reviews panel to better represent all the latest Review Room threads, the easier it willl be to spot unreviewed work. For example, the subdivisions of Short Stories make it so you must dig a bit deeper to find new submissions.

As a corollary to "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," I would add "If you do fix it, make sure the fix improves more than it worsens."

[Daniel]

Firstly, I appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions in this thread.

So the issue at hand is that some of you feel there isn't an appropriate place to post - or what?

I want to stray away from adding forums like movies and politics simply because this is a writing forum - and I want it to focus on writing. If the writing forums were very active and the lounge wasn't, I might reconsider. I'm also against adding new subforms in general because, as someone else mentioned, they general decrease overall activity rather than increase it.

And Cogito - I haven't forgotten about fixing that sidebar. I just have a... rather long to-do list. I agree, though. That should help the reviewing situation.

I'm willing to listen to suggestions to help increase activity/your desire to post/traffic or whatever the issue is. However, I'm currently struggling to actually comprehend the issue at hand.

[phurst]

If you can give someone a reason (aside from money) to read ten pages of text that they may absolutely hate, and whose quality may be atrocious, and write up their opinion on it, I'll give you a medal. That's a lot of reading and thinking to be done for just kicks.

Poetry gets so much attention because of two things:
1.) it's short.
2.) pretty words.

Much like movies that get a lot of public attention are 1 1/2 hours long and have good visuals.

Isn't that what we committed to do when we joined? If I can't get through the first 50 words, I crit that and let them know. Poetry is simple and anyone can write bad poetry, that's why that's so popular. I want someone to look at my stuff and if it sucks, just say so. I asked once that anyone try and just say the story didn't draw them in. I had 6 views, no comments, 2 weeks. I try to review a couple a day. If you don't like something say so.

As for the main question which was how do we reconfigure the site to improve traffic. I, myself, have gotten used to it. I go from the main section right to the review room and skip the rest unless I have time. I look at everything posted since I was last on and review what I can. I think it works pretty much okay like it is. Nukeworker.com is formatted alot like this forum and I believe they started with the same software. You could look at theirs and see how it looks.

[Cogito]

And Cogito - I haven't forgotten about fixing that sidebar. I just have a... rather long to-do list. I agree, though. That should help the reviewing situation.

Oh, I wasn't nudging. I was only pointing out that an already planned fix would address part of the issue.

[Torana]

I know that the layout here isn't the easiest in some aspects but I actually find that it draws attention mor to the writing side of the forum rather than the non writing side.

We had all discussed once before how the forum could be altered to make it better for everyone and get more trafic in certain areas and it has done so.

If people don't like it then that is their choice. We like it the way it is simple as that and I don't see the need for it to be changed.

[evizaer]

Isn't that what we committed to do when we joined? If I can't get through the first 50 words, I crit that and let them know. Poetry is simple and anyone can write bad poetry, that's why that's so popular. I want someone to look at my stuff and if it sucks, just say so. I asked once that anyone try and just say the story didn't draw them in. I had 6 views, no comments, 2 weeks. I try to review a couple a day. If you don't like something say so.
Reading fifty words, then posting "this sucks" is useless to the writer, most often, because it doesn't give them anything to work with. Perhaps they like their own poem and they want to improve it? Telling them that it sucks does nothing for them aside making them feel bad. They almost certainly want to know WHY it sucks.

You get backlash against some of your "reviews"because you don't substantiate your claims. You say "this isn't poetic" but you don't say WHY it isn't poetic, even when other people express strongly contrary opinions.



As for the main question which was how do we reconfigure the site to improve traffic. I, myself, have gotten used to it.
That's the problem. You had to "get used to it." The way the forums are laid out should be inuitive. You shouldn't have to spend time figuring out how things work. It should be direct and inviting.


Nukeworker.com is formatted alot like this forum and I believe they started with the same software. You could look at theirs and see how it looks.

That site looks like a 10 year old built it in 2001 with front page and a cheap javascript toolbar making program. :p Not a good example of effective web design in any aspect.

[evizaer]

Firstly, I appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions in this thread.

So the issue at hand is that some of you feel there isn't an appropriate place to post - or what?

I currently feel that the organization of this site is such that potential users are turned off or confused by the shallow and vast forum structure. This structure emphasises specialization in a community that isn't big enough at the moment to sustain numerous subcommunities that can specialize sufficiently to make the site as a whole a success. Interest is too diluted at the moment, so this place appears to be far more dead than it actually is.



I want to stray away from adding forums like movies and politics simply because this is a writing forum - and I want it to focus on writing. If the writing forums were very active and the lounge wasn't, I might reconsider.
That doesn't make sense. You are saying that you'd divide an already low traffic section into more even lower traffic forums? People will just stop posting in those forums...


I'm also against adding new subforms in general because, as someone else mentioned, they general decrease overall activity rather than increase it.

It doesn't decrease the overall activity. It may increase it, but it APPEARS that it has decreased because it is divided between many locations.



And Cogito - I haven't forgotten about fixing that sidebar. I just have a... rather long to-do list. I agree, though. That should help the reviewing situation.

It'd be awesome if you could make that do "Unreviewed Works" so we can easily go to where reviews need to be written. :)

[Daniel]

That doesn't make sense. You are saying that you'd divide an already low traffic section into more even lower traffic forums? People will just stop posting in those forums...

I see your point here, but what I mean is that if the writing forums are the most active and there's a demand for more off topic forums, I'd add them. However, if the off topic forums are active and the writing forums are less active, adding more off topic forums would (in theory) decrease the activity in the writing-related forums.

[ILTBY]

Maybe there could be subcategories for poetry? I would personally go in there more if I noticed a new poem in the 'thriller' or 'macabre' categories.

[evizaer]

Maybe there could be subcategories for poetry? I would personally go in there more if I noticed a new poem in the 'thriller' or 'macabre' categories.

Or how about we categorize them by something that actually matters to a reviewer, like "literary poetry" vs. "slam poetry" vs. "expression poetry" or something?

There's very little reason to break poetry up. It would be a bunch of forums that I'd have to go between all the time; it would be more annoying than anything. Poems would then go disregarded all together because they are in a genre that has no interest! That's no way to make things work smoother.

lpspider: Is there some way we can talk in a more real time fashion? MSN, AIM, or something similar? (If yes, you can just pm me details) I'd like to have a more engaging conversation with you about this stuff...

[ILTBY]

Genre categories do matter to me as a reviewer? I'm best at reviewing horror/thriller pieces because I'll actually put effort into them, so it would be easier for me personally to choose to only review pieces in those categories.

It's just my opinion, you don't have to agree with it ;) I find you're being a little aggressive in this thread.

[Torana]

I agree with that. Breaking poetry up into sections would just be a right pain and take up alot more time than normal. I personally think that the way things are is fine with the poetry forum and see no need to alter it in anyway.

Although I think that the entire forum is fine the way it is. We are use to it and it works.
Why fix something that isn't broken?

[Torana]

ILTBY you have a good point there I guess. But at the same time I think that in doing so more and more peoples work would be left unread or without reviews and therefor I feel it is best left the way it is.

Not everyone likes certain genres of all writing and usually avoid them, with poetry I think it is just better the way it is. Maybe if there was an overflow of poetry each day and nothing was getting a review then there would be some need for a change perhaps, but as it is at the moment I think that it works just fine.

[ILTBY]

That's true, but the members who will review any genre will do so regardless of whether the poems are divided into categories or not. Well, I think so anyway :p

[Torana]

Yes that is very true. But at the same time it wouldn't be fair on some members to have their work dismissed. When you have more areas to filter through for un reviewed work it makes things harder and more tedious and eventually people will just pick a few areas to review and not bother with the rest.

That happened on another forum I am a member on. You are lucky to get more than one review there of your work when you post in the poetry forums as they are so spread out and most of the time people only review in certain sections unless you actually pm them and ask them to take a look at your work. It didn't start off that way, but people became lazy and got sick and tired of going in and out of forums all the time to review all the poetry and now barely review at all.

[SeaBreeze]

How about this: If you don't like the set up, feel free to leave and make up your own forum. While LP will take suggestions into his stride but honestly, I think if you don't like it, feel free to find another forum to your own taste and design.

~Dropbear_Oz

[evizaer]

How about this: If you don't like the set up, feel free to leave and make up your own forum. While LP will take suggestions into his stride but honestly, I think if you don't like it, feel free to find another forum to your own taste and design.

That is the lamest diversion. I'm so sick of hearing it. You can always use it to divert yourself from improvement.

How about this: If you don't like my opinion, ignore it. Don't post in the thread. If you want to take action, show me why things are better the way they are (which many people have tried to do, including you if I remember correctly). Telling me to leave is pointless. I would've left if that was what I wanted to do.

[SeaBreeze]

Edited because I was tired last night and grumpy. I'm pretty much like, why should we change what is already here? Like Torana said before, if it aint broke, don't fix it. This place is fine at the moment and if Lp decides to change things then awsome. I'm sure there are a few people here who want to change some sort of layout or whatever but nobody really complains.

But to me you are coming across as wanting to take over the place. And it came across as arrogant. But hey, that's just how I saw it and I do not regret my eearlier comments because it is true. If you want to drasticly change the layout of this forum then perhaps this forum isn't for you. It happens.

[Torana]

Sorry but this has to be said.

Please refrain from this turning into a flame war or arguement people.

Thank you kindly

Torana

[evizaer]

It is an argument. That's a good thing.

It is not a flame war. And if it leans towards becoming one, I'll just leave this thread all together.

[Cogito]

Actually, this is a Suggestions thread. A certain amount of debate is apropos, but I believe the positions have been well established by now. Any action decisions fall to Lpspider.

An argument is not a good thing in all situations. I believe this is such a situation where argument is inappropriate.

[phurst]

That site looks like a 10 year old built it in 2001 with front page and a cheap javascript toolbar making program. :p Not a good example of effective web design in any aspect.

Gee, I'm sorry. Perhaps you have an example we could all look at.

[evizaer]

Gee, I'm sorry. Perhaps you have an example we could all look at.

C Board - Powered by vBulletin (http://cboard.cprogramming.com/)

You could easily give the same treatment to programming as you do to writing. Notice how minimalistic their forum choice is; That forum has been thriving for 9 years.

[phurst]

I don't see a big enough difference between thsi one and that one. I mea not enough to say that the design is a reason for declining use. Maybe we should have a poll on what draws or pushes the user away.

[ILTBY]

I don't think that's an accurate description, anyway. I feel the site is very nicely designed and quite modern :) I see no issue with the design, it's easy to use and nice to look at.

I tend to agree with DOZ, if you're finding so many faults with the site, why don't you use another one?

[Bluemouth]

evizaer is giving some good, valid arguments that may prove beneficial in the long-run. I wouldn't want to see him leave if it's because he's telling some home truths.

[SeaBreeze]

.......

[ILTBY]

I think he's also being a little unreasonable and rude at the same time :)

[SeaBreeze]

I would have to agree there. I'm sorry but when I first noticed this post I was pretty darn mad and insulted for some wierd reason! Leave it up to LP. It's HIS forum. Not anyone elses in the end.

[Bluemouth]

To be honest, I've actually lost sight of what the problem was in the first place ... :p

[Torana]

This is not a place for personal attacks either. Sorry to be the one to go grrr here but I don't think it is appropriate to say a person is being rude and what not in this thread. He is offering suggestions to Lpspider and is free to do so. We may not agree with him on what he is saying but it doesn't give us the rights to say he is rude and all that for doing so.

Sorry but I think that he has made a valid point and yes the way the forum is at the moment is working for us, we like it, but we also have to think about the future of this forum and if Lp decides to once more change the layout to benefit the forums future then that is ultimately his decision to make. He is the one paying for a site that all of us have been using freely for the time we have been here except for the two members ILTBY and myself who are supporters.

Now you mahy think I am being rude but I am just being logical here. The forums future is what we are talking about here and we want it to stay running and gain more interest from new comers. So we must make it as user friendly as possible as well as have it running effectively.

Though that board we were referred to to look at is not a writing site and yes it is easy to navigate, simple and effective, I don't feel that it holds a very creative style and personally prefer the way this forum is set out. We can't all like the same thing though and it is always good to find out what others think and feel so that we can hopefully one day come up with something that everyone is happy with and user friendly at the same time.

Thank you
Torana

[SeaBreeze]

Roflmao.

[Bluemouth]

Oh my lord this is the most repetitive, pointless thread. Someone create a poll stating whether or not they would like a change in layout (?) if that's the primary issue, on this site? If there is an overwhelming majority wanting change (which there won't be) then there's something wrong. If it's in favour of people liking the place how it is then this conversation can be over.

As a reviewer, the only change I'd like is to have a bar that shows me all the currently unreviewed works so I can skip to those immediately. Could I live without this? Yes.

[Torana]

Actually Bluemouth I think that in quick links there is a button for unanswered posts. It might do what you are asking for. Not too sure though.
Or simply click on the new posts button at the top of the page and that should also work I think. Not a hundred percent certain though.

[Bluemouth]

Excellent! Thanks for that, it's effectively solved the problem. Obviously there's a lot I've missed on this site.

[Torana]

Not a problem Bluemouth glad that I could be of some help. It shows all the last posts made you just have to do some digging through a little bit. But you do find work that has not been reviewed much easier that way.

[ILTBY]

Great post, Torana, you brought up some fair points. Again, I see no major issues with the site and, as you said, it's ultimately up to Daniel whether or not to change it.

ETA: There's no issue with suggesting alterations that could be made to the site, but I personally felt evizaer was going about it in a somewhat rude manner. That's just my opinion, maybe I'm touchy :) I wasn't attacking him, just expressing my personal feelings.

I also may have misinterpreted evizaer's posts to be harsher than they were :) So if that's the case, I apologise.

I agree, Daniel needs to focus on making the site more appealing to prospective and future members, I just don't know that there's too much more to change :)

[evizaer]

Great post, Torana, you brought up some fair points. Again, I see no major issues with the site and, as you said, it's ultimately up to Daniel whether or not to change it.
I'm trying to get into a conversation with Daniel about the site. I figure that directly communicating with him is more effective for my goals than letting my ideas hang open to well-meaning but conservative (and perhaps inexperienced) users.



ETA: There's no issue with suggesting alterations that could be made to the site, but I personally felt evizaer was going about it in a somewhat rude manner. That's just my opinion, maybe I'm touchy :) I wasn't attacking him, just expressing my personal feelings.
I'm looking at this site not as a sink for sentimental value for its members, but as a means of communication--a means and nothing more. The community's development and evolution is what I'm focusing on. If you view my comments as being rude, that's OK. I'm evaluating (not harshly, but without bias) something into which you've invested a lot of time and, perhaps, emotion. It is the fate of the change-seeker to be seen as rude. If he is nice about everything, he is shuffled off or otherwise marginalized.



I also may have misinterpreted evizaer's posts to be harsher than they were :) So if that's the case, I apologise.
I'm just really brainstorming and giving some ideas that may help. You don't have to accept all of them--it's a pretty radical change if you take it as a whole--but at least think about it and what I'm saying.

When things are trending downwards or are in a trough, it's the best time to experiment!

[Cogito]

I appreciate your enthusiasm to try to improve the site. I would again take exception to the comment "when things are trending downwards". Any site will ebb and flow over time, but at present we have a large influx on new joiners. The fact that the daily posting volume has dipped is not from departures. The cause is, as mentioned several times, quite well understood. It is not due to an organic flaw in the site, but due to time issues with a number of prolific members.

Ideas are always welcome. But keep in mind that the site organization is, in fact, reviewed and adjusted on a frequent basis. Not long ago, the site did undergo a very well received facelift. Many of the changes did come from suggestion threads.

But a suggestion will not get more attention just because it is trumpeted louder. Once the suggestion has been made, it is reviewed on its merits in light of the site's goals. At this point, I feel that the salient points have all been made, and it is time to close the discussion.

Thank you for your continued interest in the Writing Forums.

[Night Haunter]

Why would you change everything? We are all regulars and when the forum falls silent its because we all have a life. we all return and new members come every week some stay some go its forum life. as raven once said the forum is only just over a year old so the traffic has greatly increased since the forum opened. Some weeks we have a lot of activity and other weeks we don't I guess in a nut shell that’s just forum life.


But to agree with Bluemouth I think the locking of this thread ends that repetitiveness