My novel is fiction, but some of the situations were real things that happened to me. So as I write I keep using my ex-boyfriends name, then have to go back and change to the fictional name. What are the implications of just using his name (first only)? If he or his family ever read this book, they would KNOW I was writing about him, even though the story is fiction. It would be so much easier for me to just use his name as I develop the events, since I'm having a tendency to do that anyway.:confused:

LadyJustin,

My novel is fiction, but some of the situations were real things that happened to me. So as I write I keep using my ex-boyfriends name, then have to go back and change to the fictional name. What are the implications of just using his name (first only)? If he or his family ever read this book, they would KNOW I was writing about him, even though the story is fiction. It would be so much easier for me to just use his name as I develop the events, since I'm having a tendency to do that anyway.:confused:

If you're writing something as fiction, it should be fiction. Yes, it can be based some on real events, but writing about an event or series of events to make up a story, and simply replacing the name of one of the characters (real person) with a fake name, isn't enough.

Sure, you could write it using your real ex-boyfriend's name (say it's Freddie) and then use a find and replace, and change it to Jason (for example), but beyond the fact that the story is so tied to real individuals and events that you keep putting the real person's name in the story instead of the ficticious name, simply using a different name to represent the real-life individual is not enough. This is especially the case since, as you indicated, anybody who knew your ex-boyfriend and read the story would know it is him being portrayed. And that is a problem.

That's the short answer to your question.

Terry

Terry,
What a great idea ... using search to change the names later! The events of the story are entirely fabricated, but the mannerisms and descriptions are that of my ex. How he thinks, what he says, etc. I had him in mind for this role. So I can't help but use his name when that character does something. Perfect reply! Thanks for helping me move forward faster.
Chris

LadyJustin,

I think you missed part of my point. The fact that anybody who knows your ex-boyfriend and reads the story--and can say, "Hey, that's ___________", means there is a problem even if the name is different.

If you look at the front pages of many novels (where the copyright info is) you will see a statement that says something to the effect: This book is a work of fiction. Any references to historical events are used fictitiously. Names, characters, places and incidents are the product of the author's imagination, and any resemblance to actual events, locales or persons, living or dead is entirely coincidental.

As you described it, the use of your ex-boyfriend is not coincidental, and it does more than strongly resemble him.

Publishing contracts contain clauses that protect the publisher from, among other things, using real people, who if for example, someone is wrongly shown to have done something, or an action is in dispute, or in this case, someone --a real person-- who can clearly be identified in a work of fiction does something in that work that would hurt their reputation, could be a problem. I guess you could use the term 'libel'. An example of such a clause might be: Author Warrantees. Author warrants that he is the author and sole owner of the Work or has been assigned the rights delineated above; that it is original and contains no matter unlawful in its content, nor does it violate the rights of any third party; that the Work is not in the public domain. Author also warrants that these rights are owned or controlled by him without encumbrance and that Author has full power to grant the listed rights to Publisher.

Okay, I am not an expert in contract law, or publishing law, and someone else may pop in here and say that I am in error on this...but from my perspective, it is a concern and there is no reason to base the character in the story/novel specifically on an ex-boyfriend, such that he is recognizable as that individual in that novel. It can only lead to grief on the author's part.

Does the character have to resemble the ex-boyfriend in such a close and exacting manner? People draw from personality quirks, habits, manners of speech, and all sorts of similar items in creating characters...but they create a character, kind of like Frankenstein—parts from many to make a whole, not a carbon-copy/clone of a single individual.

Terry

LadyJustin, I don't think you should write at all.

That's called plagiarism. Listen to Ervin.

Seriously, Ervin... Kruger and Voorhees?

LadyJustin, I don't think you should write at all.

Come on, it's a little harsh to say that somebody shouldn't write at all. You mean to say that they shouldn't write this, right?

That's called plagiarism. Listen to Ervin.

No, it's not. Plagiarism is knowingly copying someone else's work, ideas etc. What LadyJustin is doing is writing about someone she knows.

I think she's fine to write about them, as long as she changes around details surrounding the person, so there isn't a direct copy.

My general feeling here is that this person wants to write about what happened with the ex-boyfriend and how it effected her, not necessarily focusing on the ex-boyfriend himself. There's really nothing wrong with that, as long as you don't name the boyfriend.

It would be best if you created a character that could still do what the ex-boyfriend did, but was entirely different. That way, you can still use those events that you wanted to write about, but you wouldn't have to worry about any possible consequences of using that person.

If you want to get sued, by all means, go ahead.

But, for your safety, LadyJustin--do not write this.

You don't want death threats, do you?

Seriously, Ervin... Kruger and Voorhees?

I am not sure what this exactly means...Freddie and Jason?

Connolly, my concern is with what was stated in the original post is that someone who knew the ex-boyfriend (ie family) could immediately or easily identify the fictional character (even with a different name) as that individual.

Just changing the details surrounding the person but keeping the same person, when others clearly know who it is anyway? I don't think that makes it fiction with respect to the individual.

Terry

Connolly, my concern is with what was stated in the original post is that someone who knew the ex-boyfriend (ie family) could immediately or easily identify the fictional character (even with a different name) as that individual.


Terry, that's why I suggested inventing someone entirely new, and placing them into the plot. That way, the writer can still say what she wants to say, but she doesn't have to worry about alienating friends and family.

Below is a good article to review with respect to this thread. While the definition and history of libel is interesting, the article focuses more on the question at hand near the middle and bottom of the article.

Defining Libel in Fiction (http://www.pma-online.org/articles/shownews.aspx?id=1685)

Terry

yes, it's libel you have to worry about, not plagiarism... terry is giving you good advice... mine is to take it!

If you want to get sued, by all means, go ahead.

But, for your safety, LadyJustin--do not write this.

You don't want death threats, do you?

I think that assuming she'd get death threats is a bit extreme... I doubt that the family of a guy she dated would threaten her.

But that aside, the way I see it, change everything about it that you can while still leaving the character with the right feel. And, of course, writing it with his name initially and then replacing it later could work for you. It would probably help to put the character in rather unlikely situations or changing the physical description and some aspects of the personality. You don't want anybody to be offended by this, but you also don't want to entirely sacrifice how you envision the character. Good luck. :)

So some of you think I should NOT write because my character development involves the mannerisms of somebody I used to know? The setting and events aren't "real". I was INSPIRED by a past ex for a particular character. He would fit this role perfectly.
Are you telling me that the characters in your stories absolutely do not resemble ANYBODY you've ever known? There must be very few people under that rock with you.
:rolleyes:

JustinLady,

My novel is fiction, but some of the situations were real things that happened to me. So as I write I keep using my ex-boyfriends name, then have to go back and change to the fictional name. What are the implications of just using his name (first only)? If he or his family ever read this book, they would KNOW I was writing about him, even though the story is fiction. It would be so much easier for me to just use his name as I develop the events, since I'm having a tendency to do that anyway.:confused:

Then you say: The setting and events aren't "real". I was INSPIRED by a past ex for a particular character. He would fit this role perfectly.

If people who know the individual were to read the book would KNOW you were writing about the ex-boyfriend, that is more than being inspired. He fits the role perfectly means it is more than inspired.

I would urge you again to read this article, Defining Libel in Fiction (linked to in an earlier post), written by a professional who knows the potential ramifications.

There is a choice, JustinLady. You can continue on the present path with blinders on, or you can do what is necessary to make the novel a true work of fiction.

If you're writing the novel to get the story out of your system, that is one thing. But if not, look further down the road. If you intend to submit it, and if it is picked up, what can of worms do you risk opening? Are you going to go through the editing and publication process, telling yourself that the character based on the ex-boyfriend, who fit the part perfectly, and anybody who knows him will identify the character as him, won't matter? Maybe keep your fingers crossed?

Or are you going to take off the blinders at that point and tell the editor you're working with, "Wait, I've got a potential issue here and I have to rewrite one of the main characters because..." How will that go over? Will it alter the publisher's view of the project and the professionalism of the author, and question other parts and characters? Certainly it will delay publication by months or longer, but could it also torpedo the deal?

A well written novel where the author goes in and alters one of the main characters in such a substantial way as to make them 'unrecognizeable' as someone else, is bound to have a ripple effect on the plot, how other characters respond to the character and his actions, and the flavor of his dialogue, as well as the now altered character's reactions to situations, actions and dialogue. It's more than just changing eye color, or if he is a Notre Dame fan vs. a University of Michigan fan.

The fact that you keep typing the ex's name in the text says volumes about who the character really is, doesn't it?

I urge you to think this through to the end before continuing the project as it now stands. Will it be a bit harder creating a true fictional character? Yes, but how many people who know the writing process proclaim that, "Writing is easy"?

Terry

Emotional bluntness aside, I AM hearing the advice being given. And there's ALOT of advice/opinions.
I still think I can pull off this story without plagiarism, although you've given me very good reasons to rework some of it.

I still think I can pull off this story without plagiarism, although you've given me very good reasons to rework some of it.
LadyJustin,
Plagerism is not the concern at issue, libel is. Again, I'd urge you to read this article, especially the middle and end sections, as it is most relevant to what is happening in your current project:
Defining Libel in Fiction (http://www.pma-online.org/articles/shownews.aspx?id=1685).

I realize that what I and most others in this thread have said is not necessarily what you expected or wanted to hear when you originally posted about this project. In the end, changing the core meaning, theme, or heart of the story is not at issue. Rather, just writing it such that, in this case, the characters are truly fictional is.

Good luck.

Terry

again, all i can do is urge you to follow terry's good, sound advice... and stop thinking 'plagiarism' which has nothing to do with your situation... it's LIBEL you have to worry about... and getting sued!

I know most forums tend to frown upon reviving old threads, but I have a very important question significant to this discussion.

My situation:
>real people

>the characterization of the "real people" characters focuses only on the most prominent one or two aspects of their personality (cocky, introverted, etc)

>fake events and situations - the character's responses to these situations are unknown, so it is unlikely the character will be recognized. EXAMPLE: I'm pretty sure marine biologists don't know how they would act in a situation where they have flaming wings and are battling a giant robot.

Would this be okay? Because if not, that's thirteen years of work down the drain.

>the characterization of the "real people" characters focuses only on the most prominent one or two aspects of their personality (cocky, introverted, etc)

are you using real people who are well-known in the world, or ordinary people you know personally?... and are you using their real names, or otherwise making them recognizable to any readers?...

EXAMPLE: I'm pretty sure marine biologists don't know how they would act in a situation where they have flaming wings and are battling a giant robot.

are you making real people into fantasy creatures, or what?...

no one can answer your question effectively, till you answer those...

are you using real people who are well-known in the world, or ordinary people you know personally?... and are you using their real names, or otherwise making them recognizable to any readers?...

are you making real people into fantasy creatures, or what?...

no one can answer your question effectively, till you answer those...

Oops, sorry.

Well, the characters are based on friends of mine, including one character based on myself. I was planning on using the real first name of each person, knowing that I would then be able to easily substitute new names if necessary. The physical description of each person would be decidedly vague (for example, there are thousands of people named Ryan with brown hair and brown eyes).

No, I'm not making them into fantasy creatures. The wings are just an example of one of the characters' powers (in this case, a friend of mine who is planning to become a marine biologist, though of course that detail would be left out of the story).

Does that help?

I wouldn't think it would be too much of a problem, as long as everyone based in the story is alright with you using them. I suppose if you felt it would ever be a problem you could get a signed and dated statement from they agreeing that you can use them in your book and that they won't sue. Like that movie from forever ago, riding in cars with boys (but hopefully less hostile).

You also put yourself in fetters by using real people. You as a writer will feel even more inhibited about inflecting terrible plights and worse personality flaws on your characters out of respect for their real counterparts.

As a writer, you need to intensify conflict. Holding back weakens the plot.

You also put yourself in fetters by using real people. You as a writer will feel even more inhibited about inflecting terrible plights and worse personality flaws on your characters out of respect for their real counterparts.

As a writer, you need to intensify conflict. Holding back weakens the plot.

Agreed on that note cog.

You also put yourself in fetters by using real people. You as a writer will feel even more inhibited about inflecting terrible plights and worse personality flaws on your characters out of respect for their real counterparts.


I dunno, I'm pretty ruthless. I have a lot of experience with storylines that are basically a series of unfortunate events :rolleyes: for the main characters. While I admit my story will be a little more flowers-and-sunshine as far as whether the characters succeed or fail in their quests, I certainly don't intend to make it easy for them. Ambushes, moral dilemmas, "drop your weapon or she dies", a cliched betrayal, it's all there.

Also, I'm putting strong emphasis on the word "based". As I develop the characters, they're going to develop themselves, to the point where my friends might not even be able to recognize their "new" self. So I'm fine with giving a character's personality more flaws than swiss cheese has holes. Not that I will; one or two flaws per character (ones that will have some affect on the plot) will work better.

BluePaladin,

While it may appear to be a cool notion, or bestowing an honor or compliment, or just a good idea (or at least a harmless one)--among many other possibilities to place friends and family into an otherwise fictional setting, especially for commercial purposes, it is not.

With as much variety in individuals out there and equally unlimited imagination a writer can have, basing characters on people you actually know...even to the point of similar physical characteristics and first names, it just doesn't make sense. It is a choice/path that has very little benefit but opens the door to a myriad of potentially destructive repercussions down the road.

Further more if you change your mind about it later--after you've written the novel, consider: While one can go in and change the name, and even possibly a physical characteristic or two for characters, altering personalities and responses to situations will have impacts on the novel...kind of like a ripple effect. One action or alteration can influence how other parts of the novel read, how other characters would respond, etc.

And as a writer, you would have to do more than a name change.

Read not only the posts after you revived this topic, but also the full discussion, including links to articles prior to your post.

It (deciding against using real people for characters) is a decision that may save you time and tens of thousands of words wasted.

Terry

Read not only the posts after you revived this topic, but also the full discussion, including links to articles prior to your post.

I read the whole thing before I posted.

It (deciding against using real people for characters) is a decision that may save you time and tens of thousands of words wasted.


True, taking the characters out now will mean that any time I spend writing from here on out will not be wasted. Unfortunately, it would waste all the work I have put in to the story over the past four years. I'd need to design the main characters from scratch, and rework every other character the main characters were meant to interact with. And of course, this could affect the plot itself, as one part in particular is very dependant on the personalities of all the characters involved.

TWErvin2, All of your posts have raised good arguments against the use of "real" characters, but I must say in my case I'm a little concerned. The plot and universe are pretty much already built in my head; the "ripple effect" you described is inevitable now. Removing these characters would be like removing limbs from the human body; even if they're replaced, the whole will not work as well as before.

If you can think of some process by which one can remove their characters without destroying their entire plot, I'm all ears. And I'm not being sarcastic, I really mean it! :(

One final question: suppose, in my attempt to turn my friends into characters in my book, I fail to represent them well and am left with a one-dimensional shell that only reflects one primary aspect of their personality. (Unfortunately, this is what seems to be happening.) Could I not then develop that shell into a unique character, preserving my reason for having that person as a character (the primary part of their personality) while at the same time avoiding all the problems that go along with having a "real" character?

BluePaladin, I'll give you an example of a situation on which a character is based on a real person but is not considered libel:

You base a character on your best friend. Her more significant traits and characteristics are:

- She's very bright, is almost always smiling, and is very friendly
- She plays a banjo
- English is her first language, but she also speaks Zulu fluently
- She was born in Cardiff but moved to America at the age of 7
- Her parents died when she was 10
- Her name is Charlie

The character in your novel's outstanding characteristics are:

- She's almost always smiling
- She speaks Zulu fluently
- Her parents died when she was 5
- She enjoys screenwriting
- She hopes to work in Hollywood someday
- Her name is Kasey

See what I mean?

Sorry I haven't read the other posts so I don't know what everyone else has said... but what I think is:

I often use people I know in stories. Sometimes it is a fictional story but the character is pretty much identical to the person in my life. I think it is fine to use your ex-boyfriends name if you know no-one that will know or care that it is him will read it, however if like you say one of his family may read it you probably should change it. Even if you write the whole thing in his name and then go back and change them at the end. x

BluePaladin,

It may come down to doing what is the right way of writing the final product or what is the most expedient way of writing the final product. Sure, it would be a lot of work, if you truely have a universe created (it shouldn't necessarily depend on the specific group of characters you've already developed that inhabit it) that is worthwhile, then part of the work is already completed whichever way you go.

What happens if you complete the project (putting many many more hours into it) and then once finished the libel or other issues doom it to the scrap heap (or atleast the major revision that could've been accomplished earlier)?

Writing is work...maybe enjoyable, but it is work nevertheless. It should not take 4 years of work to begin again to achieve where you are now.

Princess K
Sorry I haven't read the other posts so I don't know what everyone else has said... but what I think is:

I often use people I know in stories. Sometimes it is a fictional story but the character is pretty much identical to the person in my life. I think it is fine to use your ex-boyfriends name if you know no-one that will know or care that it is him will read it, however if like you say one of his family may read it you probably should change it. Even if you write the whole thing in his name and then go back and change them at the end. x
Based on your statement, you probably should go back and read the entire thread.

Terry

BluePaladin, I'll give you an example of a situation on which a character is based on a real person but is not considered libel:

You base a character on your best friend. Her more significant traits and characteristics are:

- She's very bright, is almost always smiling, and is very friendly
- She plays a banjo
- English is her first language, but she also speaks Zulu fluently
- She was born in Cardiff but moved to America at the age of 7
- Her parents died when she was 10
- Her name is Charlie

The character in your novel's outstanding characteristics are:

- She's almost always smiling
- She speaks Zulu fluently
- Her parents died when she was 5
- She enjoys screenwriting
- She hopes to work in Hollywood someday
- Her name is Kasey

See what I mean?

Hmm... her personality is the same, but her other defining characteristics make Kasey a different person than Charlie. This will work perfectly! Thanks, Lucy!

Though I should probably ask TWErvin if he thinks this method is okay first.

Speaking of which, I understand completely, TWErvin. Better to fix it now and have to put more work into it, as opposed to finishing it as it is now, THEN fixing it, and having to put even MORE work into it.

the legal deciding factor [libel-risk, or not] is whether your friends, or anyone who knows the real people can recognize them in the characters you've created... if anyone can, then you're at risk and should change them enough so they can't... period!

the official skinny won't be found here in the forums, but here: www.copyright.gov

Here's an idea: suppose I have my friends read and approve of the story before I try to get it published. Problem solved?

BluePaladin,
Here's an idea: suppose I have my friends read and approve of the story before I try to get it published. Problem solved?

People who might be okay with it now...how will they feel 5 years from now (not an unreasonable estimate for completing a novel, finding an agent/publisher and the novel making it to the book shelf)? What if there is a falling out? These things happen, often.

Are you going to hire a literary attorney to write/devise a legal agreement, where the personalities turned into characters give up their rights and control?

If the personalities placed in a fictional setting, for some reason do sign, what if the first novel sells? Do they sign again for any sequels? What cut will they get then? Will the actions of 'their' characters influenced the world such that they could claim part of it in any future works, even if their character is not longer a part of the narrative?

What if they sign away all rights, but in the end don't like where you took the story (or them)? How will that affect your relationship with them?

And if, even though they signed away all rights, they still influence the direction of the novel and 'their' character through how it affects your real-life relationship(s) with your friends placed in your novels...how might that weaken the chances of having a successful novel, or series, etc?

I am sure there are more relevant questions I could ask along these lines. Those are what just came off the top of my head.

BluePaladin, what is the purpose of using real individuals that you know and placing them in your novel?

What is the advantage of using real people in a fictional setting as opposed to creating your own characters for your novel/fictional setting?

Terry

The idea was born when I was quite a bit younger. I had no intention to ever publish it, or anything; I had no idea of the legal hurdles; I just wanted to write a story where my friends and I go off on a magical adventure full of dragons and sunshine and lollipops.

As I grew older, the sunshine and lollipops disappeared, the dragons became less cute and more dangerous, and the story now took place in a war-torn multiverse where failure could mean the end of all existence. But I still wanted to see what it would be like to write a story where the main characters are myself and my friends.

I see it as an experiment. And if I can find a way to make it publishable, great! If I can't, I'll just post the whole thing on an Angelfire page, and give my friends the URL.

^ That's perfectly fine.
If you really want to make it publishable, here's what I'd suggest:
Pick out several of each of your friends' more significant traits.
Then change 70% of them so that the characters are unrecognisable to anyone other than you.

If I can't, I'll just post the whole thing on an Angelfire page, and give my friends the URL.

that can still get you sued... check out the laws and follow terry's advice, if you go ahead anyway and have ignored mine...

that can still get you sued... check out the laws and follow terry's advice, if you go ahead anyway and have ignored mine...

I read a large portion of the information from the copyright website you linked to, and I read Terry's link and everything that's been said here.

So there's basically no way I can write this thing, with "real" characters, without getting sued. Whether or not I publish it. That's what I'm hearing.

What if I don't post it online, but save it on my computer, and I send my friends the file. Would that work?

And if I send it to any friends who aren't in the story, could I be sued?

What if one of my friends then distributes the story? Could I be sued for that?

BluePaladin,

So there's basically no way I can write this thing, with "real" characters, without getting sued. Whether or not I publish it. That's what I'm hearing.

It is not a guarantee that you will get sued. But the real potential of it happening does exist when using "real" people as characters while writing fiction.

It's not quite like walking across a 4 lane highway at night with blinders on, but there's enough of an anology to mention it--that you're setting yourself up to potentially get blind-sided. Maybe the odds of it not happening are in your favor, but if it does occur, the result will definately be painful and messy.

I think just about all that can be said on the topic has been said, at least from my end. Like many situations in life, in the end one has to decide whether to take advice given or to ignore it.

Terry

BluePaladin,

It is not a guarantee that you will get sued.

I'm just saying there doesn't seem to be any safe way to go about this, as far as the story being published goes. The odds certainly seem to be against me if I choose to publish it in any way.

Believe me, I fully intend to follow all the advice I've been given here. But if there is any way to write this thing without having to worry, I'm determined to find it.

So, here are a couple of situations I would like to know about, if you could take the time to answer them. Then I'll decide what to do.

What are the dangers if I post it online?

Is there any danger if I make the story only available to my friends?

Is there any danger if I make the story available to a friend whom I did not use in the story?

Am I in danger of being sued if one of my friends distributes/publishes the story in any way (literary magazine, internet, etc)?

Thanks for all your help, and I'm sorry for being such a pain; I'm rather ignorant when it comes to stuff like this.

What if I don't post it online, but save it on my computer, and I send my friends the file. Would that work?

'work' meaning what?... sending it to your friends could lose you a friend or two, if they don't like what you wrote and could still get you sued by any one of them, for letting others see it...

And if I send it to any friends who aren't in the story, could I be sued?

yes...

What if one of my friends then distributes the story? Could I be sued for that?

yes... it doesn't matter how it gets 'out'... what matters is that you wrote it and let someone else read it...

What are the dangers if I post it online?

the same as if you published it or gave it away... the moment anyone other than yourself reads it, you are at risk, if any of the people you wrote about [or possibly, any of their family] don't like what you wrote...

Is there any danger if I make the story only available to my friends?

Is there any danger if I make the story available to a friend whom I did not use in the story?

Am I in danger of being sued if one of my friends distributes/publishes the story in any way (literary magazine, internet, etc)?

answered above...