Relationships

By Sidewinder · May 22, 2011 · 508 · 4
  1. Sometimes a discussion gets out of control on these forums but it's still valuable. That's what I like about online communities -- varying perspectives coming together to challenge each other. Changing your mind isn't important. Understanding where the other person is coming from is.

    Recent conversations with Trish left me thinking. This isn't a forum for discussing relationships but the topic still comes up. Topic goes from a girl asking about a guy she's potentially interested in to broader questions about relationships in general and our general outlooks on life. Obviously romance is a sensitive topic. And sometimes the best advice isn't the easiest to take. Comments are welcome, but please, let's try to stay civil.

    Some dangling thoughts:

    (1) Human beings are naturally polygamous and intermittently monogamous creatures. Just because you're with someone now doesn't mean you'll be with that same person in five years. Even if you have kids. The ones who figure out that it's smart to stay together in the long term and have enough passion to do so are the lucky ones.

    (2) Love is biological. That doesn't make it any less beautiful. You can love more than one person at the same time. Love changes. It progresses through stages. Once the initial spark dies out, it's going to be different. You're going to have to communicate. That doesn't mean you don't love each other any more. In fact you have to go through some bad times to get to the truly good ones.

    (3) The whole "backup plan" discussion is stupid and was blown WAY out of proportion. I've thought about it and it's conceivable that someone could be in a very longterm relationship without ever having other options that they seriously considered pursuing. Statistically speaking though, I think this would be very rare. And the partner who did not consider having other options would have to be either deeply in love or conservative enough to ignore his/her biological impulses. This doesn't change the fact that having such impulses is natural and doesn't mean that a relationship is over. No offense but if you're under 25 you're probably not really qualified to comment here.

    If you're ACTUALLY interested in learning about the biological frames of reference I'm talking about, look into evolutionary psychology. PM me for sources.

    (4) It hurts. No one ever loved without losing. That's part of the picture. You have a choice. Let it own you or own it. You don't ever really move on, but would you really want to? Grow with it. Live with it. Don't beat yourself up for your mistakes. Let yourself feel the anger. Let yourself be sad. Every emotion has a purpose.

    (5) Emotional investment and behaviour. We behave differently towards others based on our degree of emotional investment in them. Our behaviour also alters their level of emotional investment in us. If a relationship falls out of balance because of a life situation, it can alter the level of emotional investment that partners have. No one is to blame for this. The situation is to blame. The remedy is to address your behaviour. Paying attention to your behaviour does not mean you are being cold or manipulative or analytical. It means you are being mature. Active listening, no-fault communication, healthy distance, and trial closeness are all tools to add to your repertoire and increase your chances of having a successful longterm relationship or marriage.

    Anyway, that's my opinion. And it's based on a lot of research, interviews, and life experience. If anyone objects to any particulars I'm happy to engage in a civilized conversation on these matters.

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  1. mugen shiyo
    lol. neither of you can drop this, huh. they should have a debate section where people can go at it with the exception of cursing and just pure out-of-the-crack behavior

    i found truth in both your arguments, but i can see what you are saying. definitely a man can love a woman and still cheat on her the same way a woman can love a man and still cheat on him because i always thought love was an extreme emotional connection easily overridden by another extreme emotional connection. the chances of that happening if the two were REALLY in love is slim, but, realistically, there are times when all events come together to form that perfect storm where two people...go for it.

    you are definitely right about being human. we do seek multiple partners at first, but we (most of us) mature and we seek the one we can stay with ever after.

    No offense, but for a person who wants a civilized conversation, you do have a trolls way of instigating, lol.

    seems like you approach relationships from a very logical viewpoint. almost T-1000'ish in a way. researching love...(shivers)

    i'll give it a try and say i don't think love should be researched or searched for because you probably don't know what you're looking for. logic is something i would use to weigh the consequences of love, not find it. it always seemed more of an instinctual, emotional thing. like an impulse you don't have control over, but easily confused with ol' lusty
    mugen shiyo, May 22, 2011
  2. Sidewinder
    Keep in mind the conversation wasn't about cheating. I don't approve of cheating. Nonetheless it happens and sometimes so do reconciliations.

    The comment about people under 25 isn't intended to instigate. But fact is, unless you've been through a serious long term relationship, you don't know what it's like after year 4 or so. Things change. Unless you've been there, it's hard to explain what that experience is like.

    Your anti-logic stance is commendable, and I assure you I'm the furthest thing from T-1000. Love is a fascinating subject and saying that it shouldn't be researched is simply untenable. The more you learn about it the more fascinating it becomes.

    Shouldn't be searched for? Well ok maybe there's something to that. But in my experience people will search for it anyway, so this is pretty much a useless warning.
    Sidewinder, May 22, 2011
  3. Trilby
    Hi SW!

    I don't wish to get into a long discussion on this topic, so I won't.

    It is this 'back up' thing that gets me.

    I think that anyone with a 'back up' plan are either:
    In an insecure relationship and know it.
    Have very low self-esteem.
    Lack confidence in being able to provide for them self.

    If someone seriously has a 'back up' plan then that, is imo a sad state of affairs to be in and that relationship would seem to be doomed from the onset.

    I wonder if you are basing this on a 50/50 per cent male/female interviews.

    I ask this because I once read somewhere that a woman in a bad relationship will walk away with nothing more than the clothe on her back - Whereas a man will not walk out until he has another nest to go to. (someone to make his meals wash his clothe etc.)

    p.s.
    After 29 years of marriage my husband died.
    I never had any 'back up plan' the thought never entered my head.
    I was 52 when he died and I have, and never have had any thoughts about anyone else.
    I could not be with someone just for the sake of it. I'd have to be in love with someone to be with them.
    Some people are happy on their own and prefer to be on their own.
    And like I said on another blog, the most important thing is to be able to stand on your own two feet, then you can have the luxury of taking your time in making your choice and thereby may have more chance of making the right choice in the first place. Like the Song says 'Fools rush in where wise men never tread...'
    Trilby, May 22, 2011
  4. Sidewinder
    I realize that term was slightly less delicate than one I could have chosen. I'd still argue that it's more or less true. In the original context it made sense -- I was talking about a guy who was clearly attracted to two girls at the same time, and warning against one of the girls acting in a way that would relegate her to the role of "backup plan." Through our conversation, the idea was extended to a psychological principle which allowed for slightly ambiguous interpretation. "Plan" implies there is always some kind of conscious desire to leave. In a balanced relationship, of course that's not true. However, up until a certain age, I would argue that there is a subconscious pull towards infidelity for both genders. Again, I'm basing this on evolutionary psychology as well as interviews and experience. This is probably a bit more pronounced for men, but I've avoided saying so because that's just a debate I don't want to get into.

    I'd be surprised if in 29 years of marriage you were never attracted to anyone else -- even if it was someone unattainable like a movie star. The fact that neither of you acted on those natural feelings indicates that you were in a stable relationship -- i.e. you were very lucky. I am sorry for your loss.

    A lot depends on lifestyle and values. If you have a highly active social life away from your partner for many years, it's likely that a spark of attraction will occur with somebody else. Whether you act on it is another question. That would depend largely on whether you have a stable relationship dynamic with your partner and an open line of communication. If things fall out of balance because of a life situation, sometimes the other options can look more appealing. I don't think there's anything wrong with that on its own. It's where things go after that, which is largely dependent on the behaviour of the partners.

    I'm realizing some of the stuff I said in the previous conversation could have been taken personally and I want to clarify that when this happens, it's the situation that's to blame and not the people. It didn't occur to me until late in the conversation that we weren't actually debating the issue in the abstract. It was getting personal, which was never my intention. It's a sensitive issue and I think it's best to assume that people do the best they know how to do.
    Sidewinder, May 22, 2011
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