I find this very interesting, because it has not been my experience, in my limited experience in real life writer's groups. The one I've lucked into is very excited to welcome newbies to the group, and they get great feedback and encouragement on our critique nights. It is undeniably social, though. I think part of that is due to the members finding a place where everyone has an interest in writing, when for many of the members, they have no one in their social set who understands writing, or why someone would want to write, or has any concept of any part of the writing business. Obviously, this is anecdotal evidence, so I have no idea whether Meese's experience is more common than mine. I can only base it on the one writer's group I have joined and the one local writing class I took.
Like all artists I think writers can be prone to conceits and jealousy. I don't mean that in a negative sense but if one didn't think their writing was promising and an artform to be jealously guarded then they probably wouldn't be drawn to the art. There must always be a lure to do something that potentially could pay nothing at all and consume a lot of time. A more pragmatic person would just be an accountant to keep money coming in instead and enjoy that new car. I'm a social person but I'm picky about the company I keep, and as always a journey into my milieu is one that I must take alone. There has to be that sense of striking out on your own and adventure to dedicate a fine day to a computer keyboard instead of an afternoon BBQ in the company of friends. My early jealousy of published authors manifested alternatively as hero worhip and sheer envy. I enjoyed the stories they wove but I hated them for being where I wanted to be. Luckily I grew out of that (although never really completely) and came to appreciate someone's work for what it could be for me. A marker on my own journey. Will I ever be a paid career writer? I don't know. Truly I don't. There is a fair amount of strategy to writing that i am still without, there is a fair amount of my time devoted to a paying job. And my motivation also waxes and wanes like the moon. I am both enamoured by writing and sometimes disdainful of it as an impossible dream. And then when I do have time to sit down all day to write I find that a difficult task and I focus instead on how I'm wasting a good day, missing out on winter sun and the opportunity to go seek adventure for the reality of sweating blood over a keyboard.
YES. Likewise, it is a weird feeling to go from being inspired by someone ("it really is possible to accomplish something that amazing") to being terrified by that same person ("shit, I have to compete against someone that amazing?").
All this reminded me of a quote from JK Rowling (as R. Galbraith) latest book I can totally see this to be the case in her experience, because the A-list authors are like any other highly competitive group. To give a medical analogy (this is me 'writing what I know', see how tedious that can get?) at Uni, loads of close friendships are forged, we are all in it together, a veritable battle-field of challenges, perils and endurance. Graduate, start working, pass your first few jobs as a junior and watch heads roll, knives disappear in backs and the Shakespearian-level dramas at Clinical Governance meetings for the rest of your career. It's the 'too many crocodiles in a small pond' syndrome.
Try aviation then, caesars last moments are replayed endlessly in the closed curtain galleys of aircraft.
In addition to all the traits and insights into writers' common personality types mentioned here, I noticed one glaring omission. Writers, or at least the people on this forum, are unusually nice. It may be just folks on this forum actually, but I noticed an unusually nice mood going on here, with extra pleasantries and support and encouragement and sweet things said and the like. I find it actually somewhat weird and unnerving times. I wonder why people on here seem so friendly? Does the moderator edit out rude comments or what?
Why should people be mean, which I take is the opposite of nice? It's fine to be opinionated, but I wager most people prefer not to spend time, even internet time, with rude individuals. Sometimes we delete aggressive and abusive comments. It really depends on the post, the thread, and the members involved whether this is done or not.
Because being nice all the time is boring. Sometimes I enjoy rudeness, from myself or especially others.
I can't speak for others but I was really tired of all the inane acting-out you usually get on the internet, trolls, people arguing just for the sake of it, all this many members experienced elsewhere, including me, and I found it tiresome and a waste of time. I was only looking for an oasis, a place where people behave as they would in real life ie. not like asshats just because they are anonymous, where I can enjoy company of other writers. And this place set out to provide that kind of environment. It may not be for everybody, and there's plenty of unpleasantness on here at times, but it's meaningful rather than just people winding each other up for fun, whenever they please, which I think is immature and characteristic of internet behaviour. To be honest, I love so much about the internet, but I miss the days when people had to consider consequences before they discharged their base impulses on the world without a filter.
@Snoopingaround I wouldn't say members here (in general) are particularly nice...wait for the right threads when there's a bit of blood ...members turn into sharks. What is strange about WF as a community is an almost, dare I say, over emphasis on being PC. Writers, I would have thought, should have varying, even strange, views on things, but the mindset here seems to be impressively homogeneous.
I'm curious about this. Do you mean writers on WF appear particularly pro-PC? 'Cause, you know, political correctness is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end, as they say.
I've not noticed any similarities among writers as a type of person other than the fact they write words on a page. Some writers can be amazingly bright, some are idiots like me. Some are neat-freaks, some are slobs like me. Some are proactive, some are reactive. Artists never fit into a 'type', and good thing too.
I escaped two super PC writing forums before arriving here. I was like 'fuck me, I can curse? I can use the term 'gun porn' without disturbing so many members the mods are drowning in reports? I can talk about sex -- use that terrible 3-letter word in public -- without being branded a total perv and a Rosemary West wannabe (sex is evil, if you have it, you must be a child molester). I think we have a lot of... sensitive (for want of a better word) members here who show respect towards other writers. They put themselves into others' shoes and act accordingly. They don't act like ignorant gits and think rudeness is the same as fighting political correctness. Maybe it is a common trait among writers, I don't know. If it is, it's a good thing, as long as it doesn't limit them as writers in the sense that they don't soften up bad stuff in their writing so as to make it less offensive. That's just my opinion. If there's a positive atmosphere, I get this feeling people are trying to understand each other and see the world through their eyes -- a useful skill for a writer. I don't mean accepting every point-of-view, I mean trying to at least undestand where the other is coming from. To some it may seem like over-niceness, political correctness, or namby-pambyness, to others that kind of atmoshphere e.g. provides a safe place where they don't have to worry about getting torn to shreds and shat on if they dare voice their opinion on something.
Your father has met Fred West? Yikes! I mean, there was some deeply disturbing shit going on with the Wests....
Yeah, he's a prison governor. He's also met Charles Bronson who he said was actually rather funny, and Peter Sutcliffe who he said was a weirdo who no one liked.
I'd say people here are a bit more courteous than in some other places, but no nicer than people in general. I believe a part of it is due to two things: 1. People here are writers, so many try to learn to see things from other perspectives. This often leads to courtesy. Like not telling a pro-pedo joke to a victim of child abuse. I myself try to e.g. learn to understand women, how being one differs, as an experience, from being a man so I can write more authentic female characters ('cause I'm writing one right now). 2. A lot of folks here experienced the thrills of flame wars and trolling in their teens, and people grow bored of the same old, same old. Moving on to, say, a positive, creative atmosphere that encourages things like posting our works for critique, collaborating, exchanging manuscripts for beta-reading etc. is much more rewarding in the long run. Rudeness, trolling etc. gets in the way of that, so that's why most members don't want it here and many have other avenues of getting their adrenaline kicks than arguing on the internet. Personally, I'm much nicer and more courteous online than IRL. When I'm face to face with someone, I can actually be bothered to persist with my arguments (more than I do online anyway) and don't nearly always walk away from impending confrontations because unlike online, IRL there's a point to clashes: you might have to back your words and opinions with actions, and no matter what you do, it's impossible to replicate that rush online. The lack of physical danger just makes being rude pointless, like a coward's version of a real fight. Kinda like playing a video game where you can't die or lose. What's the point? All that is also the reason why I try not to be rude online; it often leads to pointless mud-slinging which, without the threat of having to back your words with something more than just more words, is about as pointless (and fun) as arguing with a turd. I see this, too, as simple courtesy. Quite a few folks here just try to see things from the POVs of others and that not only tends to lead to courtesy, it helps with our craft, writing. Then again, if you think this place is PC, I gotta ask; is this your first forum experience? Sure, I've been to a few shotgun facelift- and goatse-riddled, wholly unmoderated forums, but as far as serious, active writing forums go, this one's the least PC I've found. Here I can swear, talk about drinking, drugs, guns, violence, sex, whatever I want, no subject is taboo as long as I'm aware of one fact; it's not what you say, it's how you say it. Hell, here I could discuss things like rape, child abuse, torture etc. but because it's pretty much always in the context of research or (often sociopolitical) commentary or argumentation, it's okay and others freely offer their input, and we can discuss even difficult subjects rationally (although things do heat up now and then). The point is, quite a few other places treat such things as taboos and shun anyone who wants to discuss or research things that aren't perfectly PC.
For a place that can boast among it's numbers a handful of anarchists and socialists, I do not really think this place it overtly PC to be honest.
I'm not convinced that writers are different from non-writers except in that they write. Beyond that, I think that they can and do vary on any and all other dimensions. I mean, there are so many different kinds of writing that appeal to so many different kinds of people -- seems like there is potentially something here for everyone. I suppose the one caveat would be that most have to be okay with working independently for long periods of time. Now, to be a GOOD writer, there might be some trait requirements, but then again, there are so many different definitions of good writing that it's a little hard to say . I suspect that most of the writers I admire, however, tend to be thoughtful, insightful, funny, highly individual, keenly understanding of human nature, and extremely self-aware. But seriously, I doubt that Charles Bukowski and Tom Clancy would have a lot to talk about if they met at a party, is all I'm sayin'.
Actually, it is PC might have been the wrong word. Maybe "social activist" is what I'm looking for. There are a surprising number of threads in the writing sections focused on promoting gender and minority equality and overall acceptance. Don't get me wrong. Social equality is a good thing. But there are lots of "good things,"- charity, spirituality, courage, environmentalism, etc, and promoting diversity seems to get a disproportional chunk of attention. Numerous threads like "why are so and so's characters all white" or "is my female character a fair representation,". It's interesting, that's all, and probably a sign of the times more than anything else. Were this WW3, those of us still lucky to be on here would probably be exploring different types of themes, I suspect.
I agree wholeheartedly. Yet another example of why I agree with William Gibson's assessment that science fiction is always, and necessarily, concerned with the writer's present socio-demo-eco-psychological state of affairs, never actually about the future. Science Fiction is descriptive always, but only occasionally predictive. Every forum has a tone and a mood unique to it. I've been to forums that were deeply cliquish and "closed-ranks". I've been to forums where no one was really rude, but everyone was strangely taciturn and mildly suspicious, hands covering their papers so that no one could copy their test, so to speak. To answer your concern of over-moderation of snark and the like: we reserve that for extreme cases. Perhaps you are accustomed to unmoderated, non-cohesive communities on the web. Some of us, as @T.Trian and @KaTrian point out, have experienced places run as totalitarian regimes and we have also experienced places where there is no control and Master Blaster runs Bartertown, complete with 3.5 inches' worth of porcine excrement ever at one's feet. Between the two there is a happy medium to be found.
Well, that explains a lot. And be thankful you haven't experienced some of the other writing forums out there. Compared to them, this one's a venerable haven of freedom (the reason why @KaTrian and I stuck around). As for the other stuff, I think the issues discussed just happen to be on people's minds more for various reasons. I got really interested in learning all I can about the female perspective when Kat and I started taking writing more seriously and I wanted to learn to write female characters so well, women couldn't tell they were written by a man. Not there yet, but I've made a lot of progress, partly thanks to this forum and the discussions I've had over here about subjects like women's rights, rape, the male and female gazes etc. That being said, as I'm still learning, be prepared for more female-/femininity-related discussions in the near future. That's kinda how I see it; we're trying to ensure the place is as free and uncontrolled as possible, but also that people don't get antagonized needlessly by other members and that the forum's atmosphere stays positive, encouraging, and free of needless drama and bs. Sure, sometimes discussions get heated, things are said etc, especially when topics like politics, religions etc. are discussed, but disagreeing with another person doesn't mean you have to be an asshole about it. When someone thinks so, that's when the mods step in to... offer some constructive criticism.
