Would you hit a woman?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by J.W.Exeter, Sep 19, 2014.

  1. edamame

    edamame Contributor Contributor

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    Look. You asked for people's opinions and I gave it. I don't think your girlfriend should have slapped you and I don't think you should slap a girl. Why are you being so defensive because I disagree with you? If you think I'm wrong, fine. I don't think slapping someone will make them respect you. I think if you slapped that girl, she would not only look down on you but be afraid of you and maybe generalize people "like you" as violent.

    I don't know why you even asked this question, you obviously want people to agree with you that a slap is okay and when I don't, you talk about how some people need to be slapped. Go take a good look at yourself. I'm not going to tell you it's okay because it's not.

    EDIT: Btw, the title of this thread is "hit" a woman.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2014
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  2. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    In addition to the domestic violence cases we typically hear about, what makes me angry is radical people like this guy:
     
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  3. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    You know, you're sounding now like a lot of guys I've talked to - of course, they're now in jail because of domestic abuse, assault and battery, yada yada yada. If you think it's okay to slap someone because they bruised your fragile ego - even now, years later - you've got bigger problems, man.
     
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  4. daemon

    daemon Contributor Contributor

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    @J.W.Exeter sounds eerily similar to the justification for spanking children...

    "People that ignorant to begin with don't just wake up one day and realize they've been wrong this whole time. Not unless they get a slap in the face."

    "Disobedient children don't just wake up one day and realize their actions have consequences. Not unless they get a slap on the butt."

    Even if you think children should be spanked (I actually have no position one way or the other on that), you still must admit that you basically give yourself the role of some other person's parent.
     
  5. Jaro

    Jaro Active Member

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    My personal opinion is that it's not okay to just outright hit anyone. That said, there are instances when it needs to be done. Whether you are a man or a woman, if you need to defend yourself then you have to do what you have to do. You don't hit someone because they have embarrassed you, hurt your feelings, or called your mama a dirty name.

    I was a martial arts instructor for several years. I never felt weird or wrong about hitting a woman during training/sparring because come on, that was the whole point. I trained the women exactly as I trained the men.
     
  6. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    If you had slapped her, she would have most likely reported you to the nearest authority and gotten you suspended, expelled, or arrested. She wouldn't have been enlightened. She wouldn't have said, "Oh, wow, I thought that guy was beneath me, but now I know that he's capable of impulsive violence. Violence is an unmistakable sign of wisdom and leadership. Now I respect him."

    It doesn't work that way.
     
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  7. jazzabel

    jazzabel Agent Provocateur Contributor

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    It's what you get when you let psychopaths dictate policy. There are inadequate, pathetic men in every society that would be saying the same, given half a chance. Men who hate women so much for not wanting them, their only chance to have one is a 'god-given right' to one as a slave. Luckily, where we live, this sort of male chauvinistic verbal diarrhoea (and real violence toward another) is illegal.
     
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  8. minstrel

    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Supporter Contributor

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    HEY!

    Some of the posts in this thread are going over the line. This forum isn't here to help justify violence against women or anyone else.

    This thread is being watched very closely and will be CLOSED if people don't behave themselves.
     
  9. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    I'm sorry, I'm still :-O at that video! It's hard to believe that people still live that way in the name of religion. Actually, it's not hard, it's sad.
     
  10. T.Trian

    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Supporter Contributor

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    Actually, slaps can hurt more than punches. Slaps often sting like hell while a punch is a duller sort of pain and only really hurts if it hits a sensitive area (e.g. nose or liver) or rattles your brain. I once asked @KaTrian to slap me so I could better remember how it feels to describe it in a scene, and it hurt more than when a guy bigger than me punched me in the face during harder boxing sparring. :crazy:

    And then there are slaps and there are slaps: a "normal" slap just stings a lot, but I could seriously KO a man with a hard slap. Hard slaps can be stronger than punches.


    I'd be wary with saying that since I know literally dozens of self-defense, martial arts, military CQB, and combat sports instructors from a myriad of styles (ranging from traditional styles like karate to modern styles like krav maga to sports styles like MMA) and most of them are firm believers in pre-emptive attacks (almost always a punch) if avoidance and verbal persuasion don't work; they take it seriously when an aggressive guy says something like "I'm gonna fucking take you out, motherfucker!" and they can read non-verbal signs of an impending attack (e.g. the antagonist starts using single-syllable words, they start glancing around to check for witnesses, opening and queezing the hands into fists repeatedly etc. etc.), and they also acknowledge the statistics that show that the person who hits first usually comes out on top, so if all else fails and it's as clear as can be the other guy(s) will attack, they hit first, especially in a multiple opponent scenario which are the most dangerous of all (e.g. the main guy has two of his friends flanking you).

    BUT... the vast majority of them also advocate learning enough grappling that hitting a woman is completely unnecessary in practically any situation, so the above applies pretty much to male aggressors. I can't think of any situation where actually hitting a woman is necessary except maybe some variant of the one which Geoff Thompson mentions: his friend had wrestled a violent man to the ground but the guy's gf stabbed him in the back, killing him. If you happened to be there and couldn't reach the girl in time to grab, disarm, and restrain her, and the punch was the only attack you had that could reach her in time, then it'd be ok, imo, it'd save a life, but how common are such situations, really?


    I haven't read that novel but I don't think knocking out a woman is a reasonable response if she kicks you in the nuts. I'd try to talk her down if possible, if not, leave if possible, if not and she's still violent, restrain her or keep her at bay, but knocking her teeth in, so to speak... no.

    I've been kicked in the nuts by a girl, in fact: I was in a small bar brawl (a big guy grabbed @KaTrian and refused to let go even after she pushed him away once) and it was probably the other guy's friend or something who appeared from the sidelines while I tossed him over a table and she threw a clumsy kick at my groin. It came as a surprise as she was previously blocked by my tunnel vision, but as the "main tussle" was still on-going, I just pushed her aside (not even a shove, btw, there was no impact), and luckily Kat was there to talk some sense into her that she'd stay out of the way. Throwing a full force left hook to put her down never crossed my mind and I wasn't even angry at her and don't blame her; she saw her friend (or whatever) get hurt so she tried to defend him, but just went a stupid way about it. There was no reason to KO a girl a head shorter than me.
     
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  11. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    I think most men in general don't think it's okay to hit women, because most men have been raised to protect them, not injure them.

    When I was in high school, I went to a church event every Friday. It was basically a hangout for teens, with a sermon at halftime. It was a pretty cool place. They had a dance floor, pool table, foozeball, XBox and Playstations, a cafe with snacks on the secondfloor, a volleyball court in the back, and a skate park in the front parking lot. It was supposed to be a way to keep kids off the street and bring them closer to God. Unfortunately, the longer it was open, the more it did bring kids off the street... But not the kids you wanted.

    People started stealing, drinking, smoking, damaging property, starting fights. I can't even count the number of fights I saw at that place. But there was one fight in particular--I've never seen anything like it--and it was all my fault. lol

    My friends Ryan and Jared were bikers. They spent lots of money upgrading their bikes to do stunts and tricks and whatnot. So they brought their bikes to this church every Friday and would practice in the parking lot. During halftime, they chained their bikes up to a lightpost outside. But when the three of us came back outside, there were two kids out there messing with my friends' bikes. It got pretty heated pretty quickly, because race became an issue and several slurs were thrown around. So I, trying to be the peacekeeper, grabbed my friend Ryan (who seemed to be the most angry) and started pulling him inside. All the while, the kid is following us, yelling, insulting. I'm trying to get the attention of the "bouncers" to help get the kid away, but they didn't realize what was going on. We were almost inside, when I turned to the kid following us and said, "Just go away and leave us alone."

    He said something to me--probably something along the lines of "Fuck you, bitch"--then put all of his weight behind pushing me. I flew pretty far, fell down. And when I recovered, I saw my friend Ryan punch him in the face. Across the parking lot, Jared, who had been trying to shoo away the other kid pestering their bikes, punched the kid closest to him.

    A half hour later, literally every single person in the church was fighting. Some people didn't even want to be fighting.. They just got dragged in! My friend Sable (female) was clinging to her boyfriend while people kept running by and just ripping at her hair.. Grabbing huge handfuls of it and pulling as hard as they could. My friend Sarah got punched in the face by a guy. My friend Adrienne got spit on in the face by a guy. It was.. insane.

    Some people just don't seem to care who they hit. They'll hit women, men, whoever, just as long as they can get their hands on someone... I personally don't think it's ever okay to hit someone.. Violence doesn't solve anything. But at the same time, you gotta defend yourself if you feel physically threatened.
     
  12. stevesh

    stevesh Banned Contributor

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    I may have not explained the scene that well. It was Spenser's first visit to the house, and he had never met this woman before (I'm not sure he knew she existed). Her first action was to open the door and kick him - no warning, no introduction. His punch still seems like a reasonable response to me, out of surprise if nothing else. Your training might make you a whole lot more self-aware in these situations than I am, though.
     
  13. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    I'm reminded of Malala Yousafzai, the girl who was shot by the Taliban at 14 and survived, and targeted all because she wanted everybody, including every girl, to have an education. There was an interview with her when she says, "I used to wonder what I'd do if the Taliban actually came to shoot me. At first I thought, I'll hit him with my shoe. But then I realise, that would make me no better than the terrorist."

    For a girl of that age - before even the age of 14 because this thought came to her before she was even shot - I am amazed by her wisdom.

    There's something to be said for love and gentleness. I dunno about that girl Olivia, but at least for myself - if someone slapped me, I'd just leave that person, but it wouldn't change my mind about anything.

    On the other hand, I see my husband as a wonderful example of gentleness, and it's had its effect on me. I'm a very fiery woman and force would never work with me. I'd yell back, hit back, and if the man freaks me out enough I'd just run away. That doesn't mean my mind's changed about my own behaviour.

    But over the years, my husband's shown me how to be patient to strangers, simply by example - because he is patient. I see him sit without complaining at a restaurant when everyone's served except him, even when the staff had all the free time in the world. I see him always prepare a coin in his pocket in case anyone should come up and ask for something. I see him stand there and even miss his own metro/tram because a homeless man is talking to him, and he stands there and talks with him. He even recognises several faces amongst the homeless because it's happened so often.

    THAT makes me question my own behaviour. And then when I become impatient, he might cut his chat with the homeless short so we could go home, again without complaints. His silence - a non-judgemental silence, this immediate willingness to put me first - THAT makes me question myself. Because I know what he's doing is good, whereas I'm being selfish.

    I dunno - gentleness takes a much longer time to change a person, but when the change comes, it's lasting. Not that I'm more patient now mind you - I don't feel more patient, certainly - but I still look to my husband as a wonderful example to follow. I'd follow him everywhere because I know what he has in his heart is good, because I've seen how he treats people.

    I dunno. I think of what Jesus said when the people dragged an adulteress in front of him, and said, "By law, this woman should be stoned." The people were justified in their anger - they did nothing wrong, and was requesting something that's perfectly legal and RIGHT. But instead Jesus said, "Let the man who has not sinned cast the first stone."

    You're not wrong to be angry, and perhaps your wish to slap Olivia was justified. But don't be like her, forcibly trying and desiring to demean another human being. She thought you deserved to be demeaned - you didn't. You feel she deserves to be demeaned - so how are you different? It's really the same kind of thinking. She was ugly in spirit - don't become ugly like her. It's not about changing someone else or dishing out what another might deserve (in your opinion). It's simply about doing what is better, what is merciful, what is gracious, and in my opinion, grace trumps justice any time. It's not logical, but I can see beauty in grace that I don't see in the motto of "An eye for an eye" (and the whole world goes blind, right?)
     
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  14. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    Crikey, what kinda bar do you guys go to!?
     
  15. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    My graduation night in my old home town. A hillbilly type of bar...

    Ironically, every single one of us who participated in the tussle got away scott-free while the cops fined my brother for peeing publicly.

    Good times...
     
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  16. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    Looool.

    So you and T. met at uni?

    Ah, now I see the word "tussle", there was once I wrote "I tussle my hair" in my novel hahahaha.
     
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  17. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    It was before that, already, actually. :) We've studied in the same department, though. :)

    Tussle, tousle... I've mixed them up too. :p
     
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  18. Lae

    Lae Contributor Contributor

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    Depends on where you grow up i think, as i said before i have and would hit a woman again. The first time i held a little off but she kept coming so i eventually hit her hard enough that she didnt get back up. To put it into a little bit of perspective (and not just me hitting a woman) i grew up in a bad area on a rough council estate, in this case the girl/gang in question had a screwdriver and was trying to blindside me with it. We (me and some of my friends) got into a fight with another bunch of guys from a different estate, they wandered in looking for a fight, we were just handing around playing football etc. Most of these "girls" act like men, if you try to hit me like a man then i'll treat you like a man.
     
  19. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    I'm going to act like a lady so you'll buy me candy and flowers. :love:
     
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  20. stevesh

    stevesh Banned Contributor

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    There are hillbillies in Finland?
     
  21. T.Trian

    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Supporter Contributor

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    Maybe. I've been training for 25-26 years, so it'd be pretty pathetic if I had nothing to show for it but injuries. :D In that brawl, I almost managed to check her kick; I used to train muay thai so checking kicks with the shin is second nature by now and even in krav maga and senshido we used shins for that, but it was such a surprise and I didn't see her (I was too drunk to remember to keep breaking tunnel vision and it probably also impaired my reflexes) that I didn't have time to meet the kick shin to shin, so it ended up being her shin against my thigh and just the tip of her boot hitting the nutty area with less than full force.

    In hindsight I'm glad 'cause if your shins aren't semi-numb from something like muay thai, full-contact kickboxing, kyokushin karate etc, shin to shin collisions hurt like fuck and despite her attack, she wouldn't have deserved that or a permanent dent in her shin just for standing up for her friend. I think that's respectable and pretty brave of a woman against an aggressive man, but sometimes it can cause problems if your friend started the fight unprovoked, like in this instance.

    To return to the novel's scenario, I probably would've caught it since people who don't have extensive combat sports/martial arts training under their belt, tend to telegraph their attacks a mile away and if you've trained even moderately, the shin check is quick and pretty much automatic and self-defense enthusiasts also tend to be a bit more into awareness (or "cultivating a relaxed state of paranoia") than most people.


    It was the only one still open at 3 in the morning. :D

    @stevesh, depends on the definition, I guess, but we do have hills and, er, billies...
     
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  22. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    I've actually completely forgotten we were discussing a scenario in a novel... lol
     
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  23. Adenosine Triphosphate

    Adenosine Triphosphate Member Contributor

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    I think that people should limit their force based on the threat level of their attacker. This applies to both men and women.

    That said, if I see somebody abuse and challenge somebody else by battering them, they're going to have to get their ass whooped pretty damn bad before I feel any sympathy for them. And I also don't expect someone who has been severely provoked to act like a shining beacon of mercy and restraint.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2014
  24. aberdeen

    aberdeen Member

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  25. Poet of Gore

    Poet of Gore Member

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    hit no. Stick a huge drill through them so blood pours out through the ceiling and into Bill Maher's eyes? sure.

    (if anyone gets this i would be surprised)
     

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