Ideally, every post should have correct spelling, etc. But there are two things to consider. First, this is just a forum, so not many people care if their posts are stylistically beautiful or whatever. Some posts have awkward phrasing and unconventional grammar, but it doesn't bug me that much. Second, some of our members didn't grow up speaking English. They're still learning the language and make mistakes as a result. That being said, if you're submitting to an editor/agent/publisher, you should absolutely make sure your work is polished. I just don't think this criterion should be rigorously applied to forum posts.
Good observation that is important but easy to overlook. Interestingly, though, it often seems to me that the experienced ESL people actually write better English than those whose heritage language is English.
Gloria, I believe you are immersed in a damaging relationship with the semi-colon. However we should not be too snobby with each other hereabouts. For I too, for many years, I, indeed, placed a comma, after every breath, that I took, in fact I often, give myself a headache, with these, most necessary commas, until I remove, them all, in draft number, thirty.
I get what the OP is saying and agree to an extent. That said, I don't just use this forum for it's social aspects, I come here to learn also ... especially through mistakes. My posts are far from error-free but I'm not one to nitpick on others unless it's for a critique. When it comes to forums and conversing, my typing usually gets ahead of my brain so grammatical mix-ups and typos are bound to happen. I'll do a quick skim before hitting that post button but that's it and I generally extend that forgiveness to others. I'm more aggressive with my corrections with posts on Twitter or Facebook that reach an audience with my real name, but here, where the environment (IMO) is more relaxed and casual, I (perhaps mistakenly) assume that free pass is reciprocated and that there is a mutual understanding of "hey, it happens." The only time I raise an eyebrow is if a poster is continually making the same error, leading me to believe they don't actually know the proper spelling/rule/etc. Even then, this is a learning environment and I see that as an opportunity to help, not criticize.
It drives me batty to go on any writing forum and read posts that obviously haven't been looked at before posting. We are writers, at whatever stage of the game. Why on earth would we not practice our craft every time we set words to 'paper'? I edit e-mails to family and friends, for heaven's sake!
I write only because I feel like writing, it is not my occupation. But if I write something good, then I don't have any problem in publishing my story. I never write intensely to be published.
After going through my grammar books I think I'm confusing stylistic choices for pure grammar rules. So I'm all for grammar but I'm for flexibility on style which sometimes - especially on some other sites I'm on - get confused with grammar issues. Rules vs 'rules'.
Agree, agree, agree. I don't care if you're writing the Great American Novel, a forum post or a grocery list. It's all practice, and we are what we repeatedly do.
I think grammar is present for functionality. If I am being functional but not grammatical, then I don't much care. In writing some thing (novel, short story, what-have-you), I feel it is different, as immersion and a different meter is applied. The placement of a comma, either here or there, in my partially informal communication is as asking whether the Sun rotates about the Earth or the other way. To borrow another's words; it is profoundly indifferent to the way I experience reality. I am not saying that gross errors are meaningless; but instead, that slights against ideal English (whatever that means) are generally only significant to the point of suggesting they ought be significant. ETA: There is a different story when speaking about those who are entirely ignorant of their mistakes. If one wishes to pursue this idea of writerly craft, it would be in one's best interests to understand when one is making the grammatically false.
I think there is a lot of difference between careless typos and the kinds of grammatical mistakes I think @Gloria Sythe, the OP, was referring to. Sometimes when I'm posting on the forum I construct awkward sentences, mistype a word, or forget that I used a singular pronoun at the start of a sentence, then shifted to a plural one at the end. However, a quick-read through will uncover these mistakes and I can correct them. Forum postings, because they're conversational in tone and often put up in haste, can contain mistakes like this. I don't get too bothered when I see one (unless it's mine!)—as long as the posting isn't rife with them. BUT ...if the writer doesn't understand these things ARE mistakes, they have a problem. I'm in total agreement with the people on this thread who said that grammatical (and spelling) errors drag them right out of a story. These errors should not appear in anything you plan to submit to an agent, so it's a good idea to get into the habit of correcting them before you post something on the forum for critique. Any writer who truly doesn't care (or doesn't understand) about these kinds of mistakes is going to struggle to get published by conventional means. Grammar and spelling are basic tools of the writer. The writer needs to use them well. There isn't any shortcut, really.
The best way to deal with bad grammar (or bad writing for that matter) in the workshop is to deal with it critique by critique. It's the only way people are going to see it. When it's our own work being scrutinized, we become bats.
In some ways I agree with all the posters in this thread. I am bothered by the OPs: "Okay, now I am ready to eaten for lunch by a dozen or so posters", closing line. It is something that a little tip from Peachalulu gave me that helps avoid that type of error, simply read your words aloud, of course it helps to have some time between when you write it and when you read it back, but posting in a forum doesn't allow that in general. I have typo issues and more importantly grammatical problems such as when to put a comma inside or outside a quote e.g. One of my first queries on this forum was if there is software to help with grammar when writing and the general reply was not really. That was very disappointing to learn. Chickenfreaks post: "OK, got it. Moving in...", throws me off track, I am pretty certain he meant 'on' but maybe I am unfamiliar with his usage of that common saying. Generally his posts are very accurate, so I am thinking maybe there is a usage I am unfamiliar with. For me this forum is a tremendous wealth of knowledge so I usually read the posts carefully and think I understand the OPs concern.
When I joined here, I had absolutely no interest whatsoever in getting published. I came here because I wanted my writing to be better, to better express what I see when I close my eyes and open my mind. Since then, one thing has changed. I do want to publish. And I will. I've learned a lot. I'm still learning a lot. For me, getting published is a goal. It is not the goal. The journey, paradoxically, is the goal, or as close to an ultimate goal that has any meaning.
I feel I must respond to Gloria's thread. I agree with her that one who wishes to be published should be acutely aware of the formal rules of written grammar. I, as she has done, have read many posts on this forum by those who have indicated that they are hopeful of being published in one fashion or another. The first sentence I read of their post tells me that the poster/s in question will never be published if their knowledge of grammar is indicated by their questionable grammar in a post on a public forum board. As Gloria related to, writing to be published can be a mind numbing experience even for skilled and accomplished writers. The competition for publication in any magazine or publishing house is like having a partially trained mechanic asking to repair a modern vehicle's high tech. engine. An aspiring author should strive to have their written grammar skills become part of his/her everyday writing, whether it be in an E-mail, a post on a forum board or letter to the editor in a news paper. Strive to be the professional writer you want to be, at all times.
I write because I love writing. In the long run I would love to have people reading my stuff because that would make me feel like I have succeeded as a writer but it is the thrill I get from writing that I do it for. I would feel happy enough if I never got published but still got to write my whole life for fun. I am very critical of myself when I write, though. If I give it to someone to read and they say it is good I am convinced that they must have made a mistake or they are just being polite. I work myself hard to make sure my grammar is perfect (I found that picking up grammar was a case of reading books since I decided I wanted to be a writer at the age of seven and subconsciously taking in the ways of grammar) and I always stress about whether I am doing it "right". This doesn't take away from my enjoyment; it's like a journey that I have to conquer, one which is satisfying not just afterwards but during the process. I would say I am serious about getting published but I am not reliant on it because if I were to just make myself that little bit more serious about it I would lose the enjoyment and that would eliminate all the point in me doing it.
Mr Pruitt is correct. However there are avenues to be pursued for the more agricultural styles. CW is our great monster. We shall consume the literature graduates. These people, they watch theatre for their pleasure. They disgust me with their erudition. Bring me more vodka. One day Amazon shall flood the world with our tiny minds.
I am published. And I plan to publish again. As someone said earlier, the publishing game is competitive - even for guys like myself who now have a small portfolio of published articles and stories.
Matwoolf's comments are way over my head, and probably his last sentence applies to me. However I think writing is a very specialized and unique art form. I see it as primarily two sets of people, the first set are those with great literary skill and the second set are those with a great story in their mind. The intersection of those two sets are apparently all that will be published, which is a shame, since the set with the great stories should also be heard or read.
Two items in response to the original post: With respect to forum posts? Typos and minor grammar gaffs certainly occur, but keeping them to a minimum I believe is important. Imperfect practice leads to imperfect habits in writing. Yes, I write with the intention of being published, from the first short story I had published to the novel I'm currently working on. I've had some success in the publishing arena, and if I didn't feel I'd have continued success--hopefully increasing success--I wouldn't write. Writing and the associated activities take a lot of time and energy. My desire is for people to read and enjoy what I write. That I derive some income in the process is a positive aspect as well.
@tonguetied - sorry I was excitable this morning...really only because I had sent an e-mail, but then I came on here to blow off and shower...I didn't properly develop my ideas and it reads a bit wacko. The boom scene in popular mass writing is interesting in new and perplexing ways - like for historians who will have access to a wider range of voices - that kind of thing I was trying to get at. As for talking to subs. It's a job, you get better at it year on year...first year they ignore you, second year they encourage, you hope a couple get through. Two years pass, twenty. At the end you have a dozen shorts and two novels. I think that 's how it goes.
Not books, but if you read a Northern English paper back 2012 you would have read a few of my articles. Also, magazines dotted across the UK have featured reviews and shorts of mine. I posted a link, once, to my first short story in a literary magazine on this site. It was in the Tavern, go back far enough and you'll find it.
I think we can relax a little when writing discussion posts. This is a forum for learning, so no one should expect others to be perfect, but on the same token everyone should expect to receive criticism--hopefully delivered constructively. Without the criticism, we cannot grow as writers. Yes, I hope that I am writing to eventually become published, but I came to this forum knowing that I still have a lot to learn.
*Raise hand* I wanted to be read by others, so I decided to try to get my work published back in 2010, and it took me just a little less than three years to get there. Glad I did. “Write without pay until someone offers pay. If nobody offers within three years, the candidate may look upon this as a sign that sawing wood is what he was intended for.” Mark Twain
