Christian genre: why is it so bad and how to write it well?

Discussion in 'Genre Discussions' started by Mckk, Oct 11, 2014.

  1. Marivian

    Marivian New Member

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    I'm not so sure I agree with you there. Yes a lot of things can happen to people and I would argue that people are greatly influenced, sometimes for the worst. Such as a person brought up in an abusive household might be prone to abuse their children. However there is still free will. The person may be prone to it but they can fight that. They can do their best to not be like what they came from, especially if they recognize it as wrong. I know many people who struggle with this very fight on a day to day basis. It's a tough battle and it's all uphill but no one said doing right would be easy.
     
  2. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Perhaps some of these issues would be best explored in a book. :p
     
  3. Killer300

    Killer300 Senior Member

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    Course, opinions differ, however again, it should at least be discussed, if you will. And since free will matters a lot, as a concept, to Christianity, perhaps Christian fiction would be an interesting way to do so.

    I admit I'm a soft-determinist whose a little frustrated that the other side of the argument, if you will, isn't really presented in fiction usually, but that's a side issue.;)
     
  4. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    All good fiction embodies a challenge. Romantic, economic, physical, moral, and even emotional. Christian fiction could, and I believe should, challenge a character's faith.
     
  5. Aled James Taylor

    Aled James Taylor Contributor Contributor

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    The issue of free will is an interesting one. I started a thread a little while ago to consider this https://www.writingforums.org/threads/freedom.133845/

    When you consider why you actually choose one thing over another, you tend to have a reason for your decision, and that reason dictates what you choose. People are free to make choices independently of other people but not, it seems independently of their own internal workings and when we consider these, 'freedom' seems illusive.

    People can struggle to do what they've decided to do, against emotional urges to do otherwise as @Marivian describes, but this only seems like one internal influence being stronger than another.

    Someone could say, "I believe parents should smack their children, discipline is important," and someone else could say, "smacking children is abuse and shouldn't be done." If you ask those people why they hold their views, each would give reasons that led them to, and maintains their belief. Each person could change their mind but they would need a reason to do so, a reason that is stronger than the reason they have for maintaining the belief. I'm not seeing 'freedom' in any of this since all our choices are heavily influences or even dictated by internal forces we have no direct control over.

    You could argue, "I'm free to choose as I like." But since you cannot choose what you like, you would be compelled by an influence that is outside your control. This is not freedom.

    I think exploring the issue of freewill in a book would be interesting but perhaps it shouldn't be a 'Christian' book as it would probably raise more questions than answers and cast more doubt than encouragement. Christians may not like it if it's demotivating and non-Christians may not even consider it if it carries the label 'Christian'.
     
  6. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    That sounds like an awfully negative perception of faith and its effects, I must say...

    And may I add that just because someone believes in God doesn't necessarily make them lonely.

    Now, here's an interesting observation - why on earth should I have taken your story this personally? o_O Of course I feel like your take on faith is somehow a statement about my faith (as if you were thinking of me when you thought up your story lol). Anyway, I find my reaction strange...
     
  7. Devlin Blake

    Devlin Blake New Member

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    A book can be religious or spiritual without being classified as 'Christian book' . Most true Christian books have a set of rules and formulas that can't be broken. If they are broken, it's reclassified as something else. The only genre with more rules is Romance. There's nothing wrong with religion in fiction as long as it serves the story instead of being the story.
     
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  8. Mangyhyena

    Mangyhyena New Member

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    I do not know if others would classify Spark's novel, A Walk To Remember, as Christian Lit, but I most certainly do. To me, that is how it's done when done well; the bar that Christian Lit should strive to match or surpass.
     
  9. DaveOlden

    DaveOlden Member

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    Yes! :)

    (and I believe we can include, to a somewhat subtler degree, the works of his friend and fellow Inkling, J.R.R. Tolkien).
     
  10. DaveOlden

    DaveOlden Member

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    ... or ... show, don't tell? :)
     
  11. digitig

    digitig Contributor Contributor

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    Ok, it's a necrothread, but it's an interesting counterpoint to the thread about whether "fundamentalism is bad" is a bad theme for a book, and the answer is much the same: when plot and character take a back seat to a dogmatic message, the results are going to be dire (although I could name and shame best-sellers on both sides of that divide, because there seem to be plenty of people who will buy stuff that reinforces their opinions no matter how bad it is). One factor that doesn't seem to have been mentioned (maybe I missed it) is that there is a specific Christian market and many readers who will only consider buying stuff from within that market, so writers working within that market are not competing with the rest of the world. They get away with worse work simply because they can.

    It could be worth looking at Simon Morden's website. He's an award-winning Sci-Fi author who is a Christian but doesn't write specifically Christian work. He's done a few talks at conferences on the pressures on Christian writers to produce bad work, and I think he has the text of the talks on his site. His conclusion is more or less that if you write good fiction you won't get it published by Christian publishers or be able to market it through Christian outlets.
     
  12. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023 Community Volunteer

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    That's what I'm facing. Not that I'm sure mine is that good . . .

    I had a merchandise credit from a Christmas present I needed to use at a Christian bookstore yesterday. I thought maybe I'd spend it on a Christian novel, since some people would say that's what my WIR is and I should see what's what in that area these days.

    I leafed through several, and I just couldn't deal with it. Maybe I wasn't being fair. But just the cover blurbs were giving me diabetes. The most interesting one was a dystopian fantasy . . . and I don't like dystopian fantasy. Oh. Well.
     
  13. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax Contributor Contributor

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    He's done a few talks at conferences on the pressures on Christian writers to produce bad work - when I first read that, I thought that what he was saying was that "You can only get published if you write stuff about BAAAD things, things that turn a Christian's stomach" - but, no, it's about the fact that GOOD writing won't get published by a Christian publisher!
     
  14. Skaruts

    Skaruts Member

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    I've never read any of it (and probably won't because the name of the genre itself reeks of pretentiousness (I would think the same if there were such things as an Atheist genre, or a Feminist genre, or whatever)), but I will go out on a limb and predict that they are writen in a state of bias that, I would argue, hurts any story.

    I wasn't at all surprised when you mentioned: "They're so focused on evangelising". I expect that from anything that has the name of a religion in it (or any political dogma (or any dogma in general)).

    (Christian metal! Heard it once, forgot it since).

    When it comes to literature, it's one thing to want to convey a message or a critique in a subtle and clever way, it's another to want to shove into the readers' minds. Unfortunately that invariably happens when the writer is too embroiled in his/her bias. If you excuse my comparison, it happens to me when I write erotica, and that's why my erotic stories suck and I don't publish. No substance. I think you might guess why.

    If they were genuinely interested in telling a story, they could do so. It's been mentioned already (probably more than once), that their christian ideals would subside anyway, but then it might still be a good read, even for an atheist like me. I loved Les Miserables (except for the tiresome descriptions and enumerations), and I've read other religiously inspired stories that I liked and had no complaints (other than those such as the ones I mentioned for Les Miserables - which have nothing to do with the religious context).

    Might the root of those problems be the pretentiousness that it promptly strikes me with?
     
  15. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    Quite possibly. I was going through some books today (had to tidy the flat) and came across a book that I honestly don't remember. It turned out to be a Christian thriller/conspiracy novel. Now, I'm a Christian, but I was seriously turned off when the blurb got to the line, "And why do these people keep rejoicing in their suffering?" :supersleepy:

    Especially being a Christian, I already know why. God provides and all. I think what turns me off most of all is that I feel I already know where it's going, I know what it wants to tell me and there's only one answer: God is good and conversion to Christ is a wonderful thing. Now I believe both to be true. That doesn't mean I want to read a novel about it. If I was looking for moral lessons or encouragements in my faith, I'd go to people in real life who've been through hardships, read a non-fiction book that explores religious topics and includes real life testimonies of how God's been good.

    For me, the great thing about fiction is that it makes you think, it makes you question - if there's only one answer and you already know what it is, why would I bother?
     
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  16. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    This is my attitude and approach to literature too. It's part of the reason why I keep finding myself drawn to Paradise Lost to be honest.
     
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  17. Skaruts

    Skaruts Member

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    I think that's the crux of literature. And perhaps that anything that challenges you in some way (even if only by not being as predictable as you thought), is one thing that makes it worth reading.

    It's funny that I've always had a strong temptation to be critical of religion in my writings, yet, ironically... the only one time religion was even present in them was in an exercise that I did, where this happens:

    And that's when my character turned out to be religious, and I don't mind it at all. :)
     
  18. Aaron Lopez

    Aaron Lopez New Member

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    Some of the best writing in history is Christian inspired: Augustine wrote City of God and Confessions, John Milton wrote Paradise Lost, and Dante had his Divina Commedia (some know it as the "Inferno") which is absolutely sublime!

    Of course, they're not part of the "Christian genre", which is a product of the 20th century evangelical movement.
    As a Roman Catholic, I can sympathise with the intent, but I think a lot of them are inherently rubbish. I have a theory it has to do with the way evangelicals approach the Christian faith and then try to apply it to secular art, but it might be a bit too big in scope for these forums =P

    For modern stories, I really prefer Tolkien's take, in which he wasn't trying to be Christian with his story, but in hindsight, he realised his entire Middle-Earth mythology ended up being very Catholic anyway. You will also see similar takes in films, such as Alfonso Cuaron, Guillermo del Toro, and Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu.

    TL;DR, don't try so hard to be Christian. There's only one Jesus story, and 11 billion other historic lives to draw inspiration from!
     
  19. Void

    Void Senior Member

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    It probably has to do with the writer's priorities, namely, being more concerned about converting people and getting your message across than crafting an engaging narrative with interesting characters, plot, writing style, setting etc. The same can be said for any other type of theme or message that the author is far more enamored with than the story itself. It may also be exacerbated by the audience's intent as well. The types of people who will specifically seek out Christian literature probably aren't doing so for the great story, but rather, for the messages themselves, so I guess it can be rather easy for the author to simply give them what they want. Not to mention the large number of people who simply want to cash in on the people who will buy pretty much anything with the church approved stamp.

    I don't think any genre based solely on pushing one particular agenda can avoid becoming an exploited echo-chamber.
     
  20. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Er ... dude, Inferno is only book one of La Commedia. Anyone who calls it 'Inferno' cannot be said to know it at all.
     
  21. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Wait there were books after La Commedia? Interesting, I've only heard of Inferno, unfortunately.
     
  22. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Officially it's Inferno - Purgatorio - Paradiso. But La Vita Nouva is by necessity the preface to it too because it deals with Dante's love for Beatrice.
     
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  23. fivetoesten

    fivetoesten Member

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    I've never read Christian fiction (labeled as such), and if I were to label myself a "Christian Writer" I would mean it in the sense that I am a Christian who writes, not a writer who writes Christian stuff.

    People who like Christian fiction just prefer the genre. I don't think anyone's trying to be pretentious, or preachy, or anything.
     

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