What do you think of Fan Fiction?

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction' started by JC Axe, Oct 22, 2014.

  1. FrankieWuh

    FrankieWuh Active Member

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    That's an interesting take. Based on this and dictionary definitions, the use of the term 'fan fiction' could be more a qualitative perception as pastiche is very similar in definition.
     
  2. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax Contributor Contributor

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    Quoting from Wiki:

    "A Song of Ice and Fire is a series of epic fantasy novels written by American novelist and screenwriter George R. R. Martin. ...

    Martin's sources included the Wars of the Roses, and the French historical novels The Accursed Kings by Maurice Druon, set in the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries; Martin later wrote the introduction to the English translation of the series, saying: "The Accursed Kings has it all. Believe me, the Starks and the Lannisters have nothing on the Capets and Plantagenets. It is the original game of thrones"."

    Does this mean that Martin is taking an old story and revamping it? Does that make him a hypocrite?
     
  3. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Well, I guess in a way everything written is fanfiction of a kind. Is Seamus Heaney just stealing Patrick Kavanagh's bit? Or Robert Frost's? Is all writing not just fanfiction of Homer of some kind?

    I think there needs to be drawn a good line between what is fanfiction and what is inspiration.
     
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  4. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Fanfiction doesn't mean 'inspired by' for fuck's sake. This is getting silly. It's DIRECTLY using pre-existing characters without permission. If it's in pub domain it ain't fan fic. You can write about Achilles all you like and it ain't fan fic. But write about Harry Potter, and it is.

    Fanfic really just means: amateur and unsellable unauthorised use of pre-existing characters and story for fun. Ie: borderline copyright violation.
     
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  5. FrankieWuh

    FrankieWuh Active Member

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    From the Oxford Dictionary:
    Fan fiction:
    "fiction written by a fan of, and featuring characters from, a particular TV series, film, etc."

    From Merriam-Webster:

    "Main Entry: fan fiction
    Function: noun
    Date: 1944
    : stories involving popular fictional characters that are written by fans and often posted on the Internet —called also fanfic, \-ˈfik\"

    (Last one made me smile - didn't know they had the Internet in 1944.)

    Wikipedia goes into more detail, but yeah, authorisation goes a long way in the definition (and Public domain is not generally included in this term).
    So not qualitative really, more legal than anything.

    But is that a good basis to judge it's value? As the Wikipedia entries mention, a lot of good can come out of its creation. Personally fan-fiction isn't something I'd go out of my way to read, but yes I believe it has value as any work from an aspiring writer does. When someone invests that time and energy as anyone might for original work, for the purposes of others to read, then it becomes a serious endeavour in my view.
     
  6. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    It seems to me an utter waste of time... like paying to renovate a house that you're renting. What if it's fantastic? You can't do anything with it unless you heavily re-edit and change names etc. Which has been done less than a handfull of times. It's ok for the average fan, but for serious writers, have some self-respect.
     
  7. FrankieWuh

    FrankieWuh Active Member

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    Without trying to piss you off even more :) but I'm curious as to what defines "serious writing". I see it a lot around forums etc but the definition always appears subjective. I guess you can learn much about the writer by knowing what their definition is - just curious (don't mean to go off-topic either!).

    For the record, I don't have one. I think any writing is serious and has value as long as the writer of it perceives it does, even if it's not my cup of tea. I don't like paranormal romance for example (hate it really) but I consider it a legitimate and valued genre to write in.
     
  8. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I suppose I could sum up my opinion of what is 'serious writing' with the sentence: 'A work that has created art'. I realize how vague this sentence actually is, but that's the point; yet if I was to define it, that is how I would do it.
     
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  9. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Lol, I'm cool, man. Just my opinions. That don't make 'em right.

    For me serious writing is when you're making (or at least trying to make) something of your own and not just jumping on a fan bandwagon to wank off about your like of a pre-existing character and story, or worse, leaching their ideas lock, stock and barrel. It's also an easy option. For normal regular fans this is fine, and fun! But for people who want a writing career or see it as a legitimate art, it's just... weak. Oh, and the definition IS subjective. ;)
     
  10. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    At least some fanfic is startling original. I started reading fanfic by accident - was browsing the internet, came across an incredibly well-written, beautiful story, enjoyed it, tracked down the author for more, and found out it had been Supernatural fanfic. I started watching the show and found none of the depth or poignancy I'd found in the fic. The fan work was substantially richer than the original.

    There's a lot of crap out there, but there's some people doing fantastic work. And some of it is so far from the original that it barely counts - there's a kind called RPF (real person fiction), which used the public personas of celebrities as characters (like the actors from Supernatural, or, athletes, or, in the case of the story below, the members of a band). Then there's AU (alternate universe) where the characters are lifted out of their usual world. So someone could take the faces of a few actors from the same show, set them on a space ship fighting a totally original foe in a totally original plot, and it would still be called fanfic (RPF AU). I'd say that addresses the issue of fanfic automatically being unoriginal or derivative.

    As for the argument that it's not 'serious' if you can't make money off it? All the Jane Austin stuff coming out now is making money, I'm pretty sure Fifty Shades made a bit, and now there's Anna Todd, with a four-book, six-figure deal for her fanfic with Simon & Schuster.
    http://recode.net/2014/10/22/qa-with-anna-todd-the-breakout-fanfic-star-who-writes-everything-on-her-phone/

    There are a lot of people writing crap fanfic, just like there are a lot of people writing crap original fic. But some writing from both camps is really excellent.

    And there are a significant number of well-published authors who still write fanfic, and a much larger number of fanfic writers who go on to pro-fic.

    It's fun to laugh at it, and I think it's nice for writers who aren't yet finding success in their own publishing efforts to have someone they can feel 'better than'. But if you're at all open-minded about it, I think you'll find that there's some good work being done in the field, some money being made, and absolutely some fun being had.
     
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  11. AlannaHart

    AlannaHart Senior Member

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    It's got nothing to do with self-respect. Writing fanfiction (if you stop looking at it through the eyes of a consumer) is a fantastic exercise for sharpening writing skills. It gives the writer a chance to put aside all world-building and character development to focus entirely on plot and style. And the fact that you can then put it online and receive feedback on these factors alone is very valuable for an experimenting author, whether 'serious' or not.
    The 'fantastic' kind of fanfiction, you can't do anything with it? Um ... how about moving on to fantastic original stories when they've served their purpose for you?
    The people that read fanfiction are people who are enamoured of a particular ficitional world and can't get enough of it. If I ever have people writing fanfiction of my work, I'll be ecstatic.
    Saying something is worthless because you can't make money out of it is rather inconsiderate reasoning. You won't make money out of your entire journey towards getting published, if fanfiction is part of that journey, it really does make you money in the end.
     
  12. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Instead of debating my opinion how about just posting your own? (Now THAT was a cheeky subtle reference to fanfic writers.... sigh... I need to get out and do something...)
     
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  13. AlannaHart

    AlannaHart Senior Member

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    Instead of discarding people's responses to your opinions, how about engaging in the conversation you've taken part in?
     
  14. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Because I've stated my opinion and am content with that. I don't feel like debating.
     
  15. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I agree with your position in general, but just to play devil's advocate, Stephen King has published a Sherlock Holmes fanfiction. There are now books of Holmes fanfiction. And also a new Jeeves and Wooster novel has came out written by Sebastian Faulks. There is a market for some type of fanfiction, so what is the harm of that?
     
  16. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    But is Holmes protected by copyright? If yes, he would have had to get permission = not fanfic. If no = not fanfic. It's just a Sherlock Holmes book written by King.

    Edit: Also, there's no harm in fanfic. If people actually read my posts rather than get hot and heavy because I hate fanfic, I state many times it's great that it's fun, and fine for fans. I even say that just because it's my opinion doesn't make it right! But, alas, 'tis my opinion.
     
  17. AlannaHart

    AlannaHart Senior Member

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    It's not a debate, man. Responding to other people when they talk to you is not a debate unless you make it one. It's called a conversation.

    'Well, I think it's stupid.'
    'I don't think it's stupid because this.'
    'Go get you own opinion!'

    I did give my own opinion, just so happens you were a good example of the opposite of my opinion. Nice conversing with you ...
     
  18. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I'm not sure of the legalities. Holmes would certainly fall under copyright, but Jeeves and Wooster I'm not so sure about. It seems slightly arbitrary to call the difference along purely legal grounds rather than the ideas themselves doesn't it?
     
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  19. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax Contributor Contributor

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    So the definition of fanfiction is that it infringes copyright if done without permission?
     
  20. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Actually, it was more like:

    "I think it's stupid" (Opinion)
    "No, it's not stupid because of this, and this is why you are wrong." (Challenge to opinion)
    "I'm bored. Where are the peanuts." (Dismissal)

    Also, I DO recall stating that it was a rather lame attempt at a cheeky joke.... Or did I miss that part?
     
  21. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    That's roughly my definition, yes, it would infringe copyright if then used to make financial gains. Ie: you sell it. Sharing for free is fine.
     
  22. AlannaHart

    AlannaHart Senior Member

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    Read my comment. It includes my opinion, not just a challenge to yours. It's not all about you. You were just a jumping off point. Go eat your peanuts.
     
  23. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Sure. These kinds of lines are pretty arbitrary.
     
  24. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    I put this in after: Also, I DO recall stating that it was a rather lame attempt at a cheeky joke.... Or did I miss that part?

    So let's take the pot off the boil, shall we? The clams are done.
     
  25. AlannaHart

    AlannaHart Senior Member

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    I don't know about your clams. I think they're kind'a underdone. The stove wasn't even on.
     
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