What do you think of Fan Fiction?

1. Why? 2. Is the feeling of being violated dependent on the quality of the fanfiction? 3. What do you think should be the extent of efforts to respect that feeling? (Should someone refrain from writing fanfiction out of respect for the original author's feelings? Does that depend on the quality of the fanfiction? Should it be a matter of policy? Or is it just a bit... [rude? unethical? inconsiderate?] to write fanfiction that hurts the original author's feelings?) 4. Between respecting content creators' interests (feelings, commercial, etc.) and expanding the body of content available to the world: when they conflict, should one be prioritized over the other?

 

Not personally. I've had people write fan fiction using characters and setting I created for a computer game. Mostly its flattering, though impossible to get immersed in, when I sit there thinking, that's wrong, nope my character wouldn't act like that etc.

 

This is the kind of question that can only be asked by someone who has never created an original character of their own. Imagine if you'd spent fourteen years raising a wonderful girl, and someone writes a story in which she becomes a drug-addicted underage prostitute. Would you be happy to read that?

Nope.

That's not the question. The question is, why don't you write your own damn stuff? Why do you have to bastardize mine? (Note that I am not trying to offend you personally, but this is a question any writer would have for any fanfic writer.)

Who are you (the general you) to judge what content should be available to the world involving my universe and my characters? Who authorized you to take control? Who said you are the final arbiter?

Once again: Why don't you write your own damn stuff?


I'm speaking in this post from not necessarily my point of view, but from an understandable point of view of a successful author. An author who wants to keep control of his own characters and his own universe. He's God in that universe. There's nothing about being published, or being successful, that costs him his Godhood. It certainly doesn't give you or anyone else the right to assume the role of God in his universe.

 

I think the issue is publishability. No author is going to mind very much if fanfic gets passed around fans. After all, they are already fans, and probably buy everything the author produces containing these characters. In a way, it's advertising he doesn't have to pay for.

The problem, as @minstrel points out, is when a fanfic author oversteps a bit, and either twists the character into unrecognisable shapes, or attempts to get published on the coattails of the original author. Then there is a problem, and rightly so.

I think Minstrel is right, for the most part. Create your own damn characters. However, there is nothing wrong with practicing, by writing stories about characters you already like. As long as they stay within groups of friends.

I saw Disney's Sleeping Beauty and Snow White animated movies as a child. I loved them both so much that I went away and made up stories about both main characters—some of which did not resemble the fairy tale stories at all. I didn't write these stories, but told them out loud to my sister, who used to come into my bedroom in the middle of the night, wake me up, and ask for more stories! She was an insatiable audience, and I fanfic-ed my way through several years with these Disney characters and setting as fodder for my imagination. I don't think this did me any harm at all. I learned about getting into storytelling mode at a very early age!

 

third verse, same as the first--a little bit louder, and a whole lot of the same damn arguments over and over again. oh, wait, sorry, maybe I'm getting this thread confused with a half-dozen previous ones. I've said my piece about as well as I know how to say it; there doesn't seem much point in going another round. cheers, folks.

 

And yet Star Trek is basically the cornerstone for fanfic, and has been encouraged from the start. What did Roddenberry think? http://www.orionpressfanzines.com/articles/roddenberryonfanfic.htm

 

Surely, anything that isn't science-fiction/fantasy is set in the exact same universe, i.e. Earth, as another author.

 

I believe he was referring to setting when he said universe i.e time, place, etc. Also how the characters effect the story and world building is included in how the universe is formed.

 

It seems both sides of this argument both agree on the letter, but not the spirit of the words 'using someone else's idea'. If someone where to pen a Slenderman piece, it could be wonderfully written and lead with meaning, but it is still Slenderman. You are taking someone else's thing, and not coming up with something original. Same can be said of Dracula, which is considered original. In the end it depends on how much work went in to make it original. Fanfiction, I do think, is slightly lazy and I'd take something good that is original over a good fanfic, but a good fanfic is still a good fanfic. Thus it is a lesser form of art to me, but that's not to say it doesn't have a place. Many of us start there and then move on. I did.

 

List of professional authors who've approved (either explicitly or implicitly) of fanfic available at: http://fanlore.org/wiki/Professional_Author_Fanfic_Policies

I won't post it here, because it's pretty long.

 

Asking you to explain your opinion is something that could only come from someone who's never created an original character? That's nonsense.

I've created dozens of original characters. I thought it was a good question.

And I wasn't too impressed by your answer. Our books are not children. Characters in our books are not children. You think the other poster must not have ever created an original character because of his question? I wonder whether you've ever had a book published, based on your answer. Once we're done writing, our 'child' is edited, re-edited, marketed, published, bought and sold, reviewed (sometimes savagely), and, then, far too often, forgotten. If we've produced a really good 'child', one that touched the imaginations of others, our 'child' may live on, and have other adventures with other people.

The post above this includes a list of successful authors who have no problem whatsoever with people 'bastardizing' their characters. Rather than trying (and apparently failing) to guess what successful authors would say about fanfiction, you could read some of their words. (Don't worry, there's also a list of authors who DON'T approve of fanfic. Quite a few of them are either dead or notorious cranks, but... there's some good names on that list, too).

For clarity, can we classify some of the arguments about fanfic?

1. It's not as creative/artistic as original fic. - refuted by Shakespeare, Stephen King, and pretty much every high fantasy novel written since Tolkien. - counter-argument is...?

2. It's illegal and not commercially viable. - refuted by 50 Shades and a number of other published and non-challenged fanfics - counter-argument is... some fanfic is illegal and not commercially viable? Is there something else?

3. It's an insult to the original author - refuted by long list of successful authors who appreciate fanfic, as posted above, as well as by several writers on this thread who've said they'd be flattered - countered by list of authors who don't appreciate fanfic, and by several writers on this thread who've said they'd be outraged. More?

4. It's fine, but an immature form of expression for immature writers, and should be moved on from - I'd say this is kind of a more-politely expressed version of arguments 1 and 2, really. So the same counter-arguments would apply?

Are there more arguments floating around, one way or another?

For me, number 4 is the one that is most compelling - a lot of currently successful authors started in fanfic and no longer write it, although some do. I started in fanfic, and it was a GREAT training ground. I switched to original fic because of argument 2 - I wanted to start selling stuff and generally it's not legal to sell fanfic. But there are people who don't care about selling their work who are still writing gorgeous fanfics, and I don't think their writing is any worse than mine. (Some of it's probably better. Sigh).

 

I'll read the crap out of fanfic if people write it about my work someday! Couldn't think of a better compliment!

The great training ground thing? Exactly.

 

The point relating to Shakespeare is silly. It suggests Shakespeare was worried about his name as an artist when he likely wasn't. Shakespeare's Venus and Adonis is not Ovid fanfiction, you can use other people's ideas - look at Dracula. The difference is the purpose and if it fits into the same 'world'. Seamus Heaney's poem Ugolino isn't Dante fanfiction, it's doing something else, and is part of a different tradition.

T.S Eliot said mature poets steal and make it new.

 

Fanfic writers aren't writing for the general public. They are writing for themselves and for others within their fandom. If it gives people pleasure or makes them feel better about themselves to put these writers down, well, maybe the problem is not with the fanfic writer.

 

Hm. I don't know that I'd ever be annoyed if someone was writing fanfics about my work in places such as fanfiction.net. I think it'd be entertaining and perhaps introduce more people to my book, which is good for me in the end, right? I would, however, be annoyed if someone wrote something as horrendous as 50 Shades and profited off of it, more horrendous than the book that inspired its original fanfic version. Of course, bad books profiting while good writers go unnoticed annoys me anyway, so...

I just don't think fanfiction should be glorified to the point where people honestly believe it's as much of an art as original work...

 

Bad art becoming well-known and praised when good art falls by the wayside bugs me too. But then, as much as I hate things like fiddy shades, you gotta think, it only got popular because lots of people do like it.

I've read fanfic that pisses on published books. Some authors who write original work can't form a plot to save their lives and have tedious, one dimensional characters, whilst some fanfic uses unoriginal plots and characters and takes them in a completely different, artistically inspired direction. It's not glorifying it, just acknowledging the better sides of it. Swings and roundabouts ...

 

Me neither, I couldn't give a flying fuck till Sunday what someone writes - fanfiction or not. When people try to tell me My Immortal is just as worth reading as Mason and Dixon, then I'll have something unkind to say.

 

I apologize for my careless comment. I didn’t mean to insult you. To be honest, I don’t think I realized how high emotions ran on the opposite side of this issue until I became involved in this discussion.

 

Watch out, they run higher than that.

 

Lemex, so I've noticed!

 

You don't have to apologize. You're more than welcome to call something stupid. Nobody's trying to force anyone to accept fanfiction. I think it's a great tool and I like to share my opinion, but don't be scared to voice yours.

 

Accepted

Actually, the apology was needed. I have no problem with people disliking something and saying so. However, when in doing so they denigrate the people involved, or resort to invectives rather than reasons, it becomes an insult, not just an opinion. It was good that KD realized that and graciously offered the apology.