Writing a scene?

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by Awesome, Mar 3, 2007.

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  1. minstrel

    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Supporter Contributor

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    I'm not sure what the problem is. Why can't you just write this as a scene? Give the cowboys names, set up the dialogue the way it's conventionally done in fiction, and have at it. Put in a touch of description, put some gestures in the dialogue tags, pause to mention a tumbleweed rolling by, etc. and just have at it. Introduce a third character if you want, maybe a bartender listening to them, and through his thoughts you could express that final bit about having the same conversation for years and never saying anything at all. Maybe the bartender himself feels a tinge of regret that he's been there just as long, listening to their same conversation, and never really moving along in his own life, either.

    This could be a pretty nice flash fiction, I think.
     
  2. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Or it could just be a short scene as part of a much large group of a mix of short scenes. It would be like a serious version of "Saturday Night Live."
     
  3. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    write it however it comes out [which you seem to have done] and then set it aside for a while... when you come back to it, you may find that's how you like it, or may want to fiddle with it a bit, or even redo it several ways till one 'clicks'...
     
  4. Garball

    Garball Banned Contributor

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    I was actually going to make this from the perspective of a butler holding water glasses for them. For some reason, these cowboys have become retired and rich (possibly from oil) hence the thousand dollar boots. They have adopted the new rich way of life, but still hold on to the past.
     
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  5. JayG

    JayG Banned Contributor

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    Don't throw things away. You never know when things will come oin handy. I once had a vision of a man, walking with a hangover, who spots a sprite under the stairs of a tenement apartment, beautiful, tiny, and nude. It was triggered by an oldies song on the radio, Windy, by the Association. It made such an interesting mental picture that I had to write the scene from the POV of a man whose hangover has just passed the brown whimpers stage, and who sees her, boggles, and then she's gone, leaving him wondering if he's crazy or suffering a hallucination . So I wrote it. But then I had nothing to do with it so I put it aside. Several years later, as I was writing a fantasy, and needed a male lead, there is was, the perfect opening scene for the story.

    So write it, polish it, and put it aside. Everything that happens to a writer eventually shows up in the writing, even fantasies. And you can't use what you don't write.
     
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  6. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Yeah, I probably should've asked this when I first joined the forum, but how do you pace a scene? My problem is that I want to get right into the dialogue rather than take the time to describe where my characters are. Why? Because I feel it'd be too much info dumping and padding. Does it really matter if the fireplace is carved out of mahogany with little horse carvings? Or that one of the bookshelves is a bit slanted with stacks of books shoved underneath to provide balance? Or if outside, that there's a billboard with Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck in knight armor promoting a movie? I've always stuck to the method of 'if it's not important to the plot, don't include it', but then my world becomes bland and boring.

    While I do think they would add nice touches, I'm always afraid I'd pad out the scene for too long so I simply have them go right to the talking. As a consequence, I have little to no context to where they are, or what they're doing.

    So I'm basically struggling with the following:

    + Describing a scene (with the touches like Bugs and Daffy in their metal suits of armor) without padding it out.

    + Judging when to add details to a scene that would amplify the scene but without detracting from the plot. Even if the plot doesn't revolve around the movie scenario, would it still be a good idea to include that this billboard exists anyway? Or would readers think, 'That has nothing to do with the plot at hand, why did he mention it??' Or take the examples of the little horse carvings or the stacks of book propping up the slanted bookshelf. They could be useful to tell the readers a bit about the character who owns the place, but if they have no purpose to the main plot, should they still be in there?

    Thoughts?
     
  7. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Hmm. I wonder if you might be thinking that 'dialogue is good, description is bad?'

    In actual fact, what you want to do is tell your story in a way that the readers can see, hear, feel, taste and smell it. Just giving us dialogue won't do, because without a setting to put your speakers in and the circumstances that surround them as they speak, they are just talking heads. The dialogue might be interesting, but it would take some skill to make that into a whole story.

    I found the trick is to give the 'description' from the characters' point of view. Don't tell us there is a Bugs Bunny billboard outside the house. Let the characters tell us what they think of it. The POV character can tell the reader what it looks like, and what it reminds him of, and whether he finds it funny, irritating, a blight on the landscape or whether it makes him want to see the movie ...and preferably WHY it makes him want to see the movie. That way you not only give us the fact the sign is there and a little bit of what it looks like, but you get to do some character development too. Maybe somebody comes to the house to visit your POV character, and THEY say something about the sign. So that can give you an opportunity to present a clash of opinion ...or the opposite.

    Make the details work within the story. Make the details be something the characters themselves are aware of. Don't just step back and start describing a 'scene' as if you're preparing a movie set. Throw the characters straight into the scene, and let them filter the details for you. Focus on what they are focused on. If they are running away from a demon chasing them down a dark alley, they won't be concerned about what kinds of flowers are planted in the window boxes above their heads. They'll be running for their lives, maybe looking for a sideways exit from the alley, or an open doorway, or watching their feet so they don't trip over the cobbles ...etc.

    Just make an effort to see the scenes through the characters' eyes, fit what they see into what they're actually doing, and you should be fine.
     
  8. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    You want to put the reader in the shoes of your POV character. That means the reader has to be able to see what the character sees, hear what (s)he hears, feel what (s)he feels. So, you want to make sure the reader is oriented in the time and place of the scene. If you're writing of a different time - be it the historical past or deep in the sci fi future - you need to provide the reader with reference points. That doesn't mean describing everything about the scene, just enough.

    I'm currently reading a novel written by a good friend, set in the late 1800s. I just finished a scene yesterday that immersed me completely in the details of a frontier kitchen - not by describing the setting, but by what the POV character was doing in that setting. Not a single sentence of it was "telling" - I experienced it all through this young woman's morning routine; when she wiped her brow, I wiped mine.

    To get to your question about the Bugs/Daffy billboard: you can use details like that to set a mood, if not time and place. Maybe the mc is terribly anxious as she heads into a meeting that will determine her future; on her way in, she pauses to stare at the billboard; describe in one sentence or less; suddenly, the sight of Bugs in knights armor brings a smile to her face, and she relaxes just a little; maybe this isn't so life-or-death after all, and she proceeds to the meeting with greater confidence.

    Beta-readers of my novel, which at the First Draft was heavily weighted toward dialogue, urged me to rely more on narrative for scene setting, which was lacking. I found that I was able to set scenes much the same as my friend did, by what characters were doing, seeing, smelling, hearing...and feeling. One caution: when you do this, be very careful to avoid "filtering" - "he saw", "she heard", "he realized", "she felt".

    Good luck.
     
  9. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Thanks for the tips. :) So basically look at the scene as the MC would. Does he/she notice certain things around them and what do they think of them? If he/she sees the slanted bookshelf, does he/she think the person is innovative or sloppy? Make the scene come alive through the main character's four senses. Also keep in mind what the characters are doing at the time. If he/she is running for his/her life, they won't notice the same billboard that, in other situations, they would actually look at and ponder.

    I struggle with the filtering as well, especially with first person. There's a lot of 'I saw that...', 'I noticed...', 'I observed...' with a dash of 'I felt...', 'I smelled...'
     
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  10. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    Filtering can be a really difficult habit to break, especially with a 1st person narrator. But it's also easy to fix - "I saw him rushing at me waving a machete" can be replaced with "He rushed at me waving a machete". And it saves on word count.
     
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  11. SwampDog

    SwampDog Senior Member

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    One tip I've just been reading is to relate your story as if to yourself. To start, that cuts out a lot of extraneous material and keeps to the meat. No padding.

    Then weave in some setting as you would naturally tell a friend.

    For example: Freddy came legging it towards me. He stopped and looked at me. Clearly he thought I was pissed off about something. I was. Rain from the Mickey Mouse billboard was dribbling down my neck.

    That type of thing. Participants, action, location, weather, effects etc., A simple weave all in five short sentences, and which doesn't involve blocks of dialogue or blocks of scene description.

    Just a thought.
     
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  12. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Think of the setting as a character or a part of the story. Why does the reader need to see the room? Make the room meaningful.

    Is it a castle, intimidating to one of the characters, familiar, unfamiliar, painful to see the picture on the desk, is it bleak, is there a letter burning in that fireplace ...

    The idea is to make the imagery part of the story.
     
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  13. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Here's an example from my WIP (it still needs editing):
    The scene is two other people arguing and this character is embarrassed to be there but she can't leave. The fire turning on adds to previous description of the automation in the house.
     
  14. Hwaigon

    Hwaigon Senior Member

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    @jannert

    "I found the trick is to give the 'description' from the characters' point of view. Don't tell us there is a Bugs Bunny billboard outside the house. Let the characters tell us what they think of it."

    Yop, I agree.

    @Link the Writer

    Brandon leaned against the carved, mahogany fireplace the way he always had.
    Julia watched him trace the carved horses on it with his finger.
    "I loved it here," he said and looked around the living room; his look seemed to
    be reaching far behind the confines of the house. Their childhood was far reaching behind the confines
    of the house; the billboard of Bucks Bunny and Duffy they saw on their way here recalled it even more.
     
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  15. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

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    I like description and details. I like when they're concise and meaningful and I like when they're a bit flowery. But most important I like the fact that they let me know where I am.
    Too often writers want to jump into a scene ( I'm guilty of this ) and what's perfect in their head isn't conveyed because the character is in a blank space. The readers have no idea where they are. The character might be running and shouting but the reader hasn't a clue as to whether they're outside, in a giant rat maze or in a Hunger Games clone. Time, space etc are lost and so is the reader.

    I keep knowledge and interest within the character's grasp - if he doesn't or wouldn't care about a Bugs Bunny billboard than I don't need to mention it. This is where details can come to a fine point and actually become more interesting. But for the start of a book I like to make sure the readers know where the character is, what he's doing and what sort of book this is going to be.

    I really like what everyone has suggested so far. Seems like Pace is really wrapped up in character - interesting.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2014
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  16. Hwaigon

    Hwaigon Senior Member

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    @peachalulu

    "I keep knowledge and interest within the character's grasp - if he doesn't or wouldn't care about a Bugs Bunny billboard than I don't need to mention it."

    I love that.
     
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  17. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Wow, very helpful responses here. I had no idea that setting was that important, I had figured it was just a blank box for the characters to run around in, but in some sense, the setting is another character to look into. It gives us deeper insights on the motivations of not just the main character, but of other characters surrounding him/her. If one character looks at the Bugs Bunny billboard and recoils in horror and the other wonders what that was about, that little detail could go a long way to making the story more life-like.

    Very interesting, insightful responses. :)
     
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  18. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    It's really not that hard. For example, Tom and Julie are late for a party in NYC. Tom won't stop complaining about the traffic lights, or the traffic, or the tourists running in front of the cars, or how overrated Xmas in NY is. Then a horse and buggy get in the way and he flips a **** and Julie says she wants a divorce. It's an action scene dependent on the setting, even down to the smallest details. Setting is meant to be dynamic, not just padding. FYI, I think setting is even more than that too, but that's a larger conversation.
     
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  19. Fitzroy Zeph

    Fitzroy Zeph Contributor Contributor

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    Question regarding filtering as given by @EdFromNY One caution: when you do this, be very careful to avoid "filtering" - "he saw", "she heard", "he realized", "she felt".

    How do you let the reader know they are in a particular head if you don't occasionally use such a filter?
     
  20. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    He saw: He couldn't keep his eyes off the top button of her blouse. It was threatening to come undone.

    She heard: The screech of skidding tires rang in her ears. Mary slammed on the brakes.

    He realized: That was it! The key to the mystery had been right under his nose the whole time.

    She felt: The words hurt. She fought off the tears.


    I'll often write the scene, then go back and take all the filter words out. My brain still tells the story in filter words and I have to compensate.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2014
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  21. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    I do it by making sure the POV is established quickly in the scene, usually by some action performed by the POV character. For example:

    Marica was feeling better, and took a walk through the central square and down along the waterfront. A ship had tied up that morning, larger than most of the other ships in port. The deck was jammed with at least fifty black men chained together and shirtless, and a foul stench hung in the air.
     
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  22. Swiveltaffy

    Swiveltaffy Contributor Contributor

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    Essentially stated, but use details that, through inference, demonstrate setting, themes, character personality, what-have-you. Sure, maybe houses have fireplaces, but maybe this fireplace could be special because the character has nostalgia for them. Just a mediocre example, but try to incorporate the multifunctional.
     
  23. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

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    This is the perfect kind of beginning. We have a character whose state provokes a question ( what is she feeling better about? ) which provokes reader curiosity. It gives us place, action, details and time all in three smooth sentences. Good example Ed!
     
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  24. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    Thanks very much. High praise, indeed, coming from you, @peachalulu! However, in the spirit of full disclosure, I took this out of context and simplified it a little to show how one can set a scene, indicate POV and give a description of the setting without filtering. It's the beginning of a scene, but the character's state of mind is known to the reader from a previous scene.
     
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  25. Fitzroy Zeph

    Fitzroy Zeph Contributor Contributor

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    I read this and it seems very natural to me, however, I see no difference between what you wrote and she felt. I am not criticizing, just trying to gain insight into the nuances of this technique.
     

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