Writing a scene?

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by Awesome, Mar 3, 2007.

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  1. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    One is reporting what she felt. The other is showing the reader what made her feel that way and letting the reader feel it.

    ETA: And you know what, @Fitzroy Zeph? I'm very glad you asked because, in answering you, I was reminded of an edit I have to make. Thank you.
     
  2. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    But he's right, Ed. Consider the sentence with a substitution: "She felt better and took a walk."

    That's not different. This is different:

    The sip of water stayed down. Now to try moving. The vertigo from bending her head down relented long enough to put her shoes on, so far so good.
    The rest of the sentence was showing, but it wasn't related to how she felt or why she felt better.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2014
  3. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    Ginger, two things. First, the focal point of the example is not that she felt better. As I have already said, that relates to a prior scene (sorry I included it here, as it detracts from the operative part of the example).* Secondly, the focus of the example is what she heard and smelled. And the revision I made after posting was what she smelled, not just that there was a foul odor in the air.

    *Lesson - within the context of a novel, the component parts are intrinsically interrelated, and when we take them out of context, we degrade the meaning.
     
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  4. Fitzroy Zeph

    Fitzroy Zeph Contributor Contributor

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    Using part of GC's example (I hope that's okay GC) I get: She felt sick, but the sip of water stayed down. Now to try moving. The vertigo from bending her head down relented long enough to put her shoes on, so far so good.

    You see, I don't find that too offensive. But again, I am really trying to figure out this filtering thing. Maybe I'm trying to be too analytical for my own good.

    Perhaps if all that is said is: She felt sick. Then that would an infraction?
     
  5. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    A person can definitely feel sick. I think, "She felt sick," is just fine and is often just what a story calls for. It was just a coincidence I used illness in my example.

    I think you may be taking the word "felt" out of context. Here are some examples that might better explain the issue:

    I felt it wasn't right.
    I felt like I should have done it differently.
    It made me feel like crying.

    Remember there are no absolutes here. Sometimes one needs to use these sentences. But they are plain, filtered and there are often better ways to say the same thing.

    "How could he! How could he steal from me, his own brother?"
    The low marks on my paper told me the teacher didn't get my humor.
    Tears welled up but I kept a straight face.
     
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  6. Jack Asher

    Jack Asher Banned Contributor

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    If I could I would eliminate "info dump" from the discourse of this entire forum*. The people who use the term don't understand what it means, how to use it, or why it might be bad or good. They just see a block of text and call it an info dump and move on. I've actually seen someone on this site call a single sentence an info dump.

    Write the details that you deem important, and which are important to your characters.

    *Everything said here also goes for the phrase "show, don't tell."
     
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  7. Fitzroy Zeph

    Fitzroy Zeph Contributor Contributor

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    Info dump does seem to get a bad rap; kinda like carbs or fat depending on the diet you're on.
     
  8. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    But Jaaack... :(

    Sometimes, "show, don't tell" and "too much exposition" (aka infodump) do enter the discussion for good reason. ;)

    Both terms get a bad rap, deservedly, because they don't always represent the actual problem, or the interpretation of the terms aren't readily known to the forum reader. You can add 'filter words' to the list.

    I'll try to be more diligent explaining the details rather than just using the common newbie-error terminology. By the way, the reason I know something about these terms is because my writing contained a generous dose of those common errors, (as my current writing still does, but less so).

    The reason you see these terms mentioned so often on this forum is because these things are classic components of newbie/klutzy writing.
     
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  9. Jack Asher

    Jack Asher Banned Contributor

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    While that might be the case, the newbie/klutzes then get a hold of the terms, and wield them like a toddler who has been given a toy hammer.
     
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  10. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Yes, they do. I'm not disagreeing with what you say about the use of the terms on the forum.

    I'm just saying that personally, those terms led to improvements in my writing. Of course, being the web surfer girl that I am, I went to dozens of sites to learn what the terms meant and apply what I learned to my writing. So for me, the terms have been very useful.
     
  11. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Ha ha ha! That's well said, Jack! :D

    I do think the terms have their usages. But I agree with you, that they can certainly be used as perjorative terms by people who don't really understand them.
     
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  12. Renee J

    Renee J Senior Member

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    Some characters will notice more details than others. Someone paranoid might scan the room for possible escape routes in case of an emergency, while another wouldn't even notice the window. Someone who is an expert in fashion could immediately know the name of the designer and year an item of clothing was made. Someone else would just see a blue shirt. The details shown can also tell a lot about a character.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2014
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  13. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I would say that in the real world, there are almost always physical details that do matter, and therefore, find some that matter in your scene. That doesn't mean that you need to start with the scene-setting; you can certainly start with the dialogue.

    Henry and Emily started talking to each other in my head now:

    "You're staying here? All semester?"
    "Yeah, why?"
    "Seriously?"
    "OK what's wrong with here?"
    "Well, like... that fireplace, with all those carvings. Are those horses? It looks like you'd have to dust it with a toothbrush twice a day."
    "I use a can of compressed air."
    "Seriously?"
    "No. Look, shut up about the stupid fireplace. You're stalling. What happened with the police?"
     
  14. DennisWillis12

    DennisWillis12 New Member

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    Yeah it is good to write a nice dialogue instead of describing about the characters, a specific dialogue is better choice then describing the character will take a lots of time. Describing more about a particular topic will make boring the story for them who are reading it.
     
  15. CrowOfCalamity

    CrowOfCalamity Member

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    I've written a total of three stories in my life, all of them unfinished and all lacking something. I think I know what the problem is, I just need to fix it.

    I don't have a story structure nor an outline. When starting a story all I do is write a summary, reflect upon that summary for a while and then type. I suspect that's where I'm wrong. Some of my friends advised me to create a story outline. I don't know what that is, nor do I know how to construct one that is effective. I just want some pre-writing tips to help me on the new story I'm conducting. Things like settings, character, theme, plot etc. I want something to go on so that I feel I'm doing something right. My goal is to actually stick with this story and not wander off to something else. For instance I wrote five chapters of a horror themed story called "Shrouded In Darkness" but eventually dropped it because it started to become something different, something I didn't intend. Within this small thread I'm typing 'something' frequently, I think that's a sign that my writing as become disoriented. :unsure:
     
  16. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    What you need, from where I stand, is to write more. Don't worry if they are bits and pieces of stories, start a file. Fill it up and a story will be in there waiting to be crafted out of the bits.
     
  17. A.M.P.

    A.M.P. People Buy My Books for the Bio Photo Contributor

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    I do not use story outlines, waste of time for me.
    Maybe for some it helps organize their thoughts or keep track of stuff but I just have good ol' memory.
    It doesn't matter how you write, or what your planning stages are, what matters is whether you can start at A and finish at Z.
    If a story morphs, it means your imagination went a different direction then planned, it can be a very good thing.
    There's nothing wrong that, so just keep writing, and see where it ends.
     
  18. aguywhotypes

    aguywhotypes Active Member

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    What helps me a lot is to try to figure out how it ends. If you can't figure out the ending keep writing. I give myself permission to write at least 500 words a day even if its just mishmashed freewriting that doesn't make sense. I'm amazed how I get ideas that I never thought I had. But once I get to an ending then I can really go.
     
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  19. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax Contributor Contributor

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    Naughty story, taking on a life of its own!

    Writers often talk about their stories as being their babies (and they certainly become very protective when some critic savages them!) but eventually babies become obnoxious teenagers and refuse to do what you tell them. If you love your story, you've got to let it free. If it loves you back, it will return.

    God, I feel a romance novel coming on.
     
  20. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

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    I use story outlines for novels. I usually keep them pretty simple. First I brainstorm on what could happen in the novel. For instance if I was writing Jaws I might brainstorm - shark eats skinny dippers, bodies found on beach, they blow up shark, they hunt shark, greedy mayor won't close beach. Of course that's out of order so I arrange it into a line up that has a sense of beginning, rising action to the possible end. Voila! storyline.
    You don't need them but sometimes even something as vague and simple as that keeps you on track.
     
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  21. lustrousonion

    lustrousonion Senior Member

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    Before starting a novel, I make flashcards with writing points. Could be character names, events, setting descriptions, sentences I don't want to forget, etc. Then I can play around and try to find something like an order. I think this is nicer than a straight outline because I'm not only focusing on events. I'm also very forgetful, so this works for me.
     
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  22. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    What's in your summary? I''m having difficulty figuring out the difference between a summary and a story outline...?

    There are authors who swear by the snowflake method (you can google it) - I don't have the patience, personally, but those who like it like it. If you've already got a summary, you can probably do a modified snowflake where you start breaking your summary down into its component parts and then adding details...
     
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  23. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    If you're having trouble finishing, outlining (and there are many variations of outlines, btw) may or may not help you. Even with outlines, stories can move in directions the author didn't intend. Sometimes you have to rein it in, sometimes you have to follow the story. I would suggest you just finish a story, no matter what. You need to break the habit of giving up. Try outlining, sure. It takes experiementing to find a method that works for you. But no matter the method, finish what you start. Get into that habit, first and foremost.
     
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  24. Dunning Kruger

    Dunning Kruger Active Member

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    I've generally had more success when I adopted a less intense version of the snowflake method. Basically, I write out 1 page with the theme, plot, and one or two sentence descriptions of major characters. Then, for each chapter or scene, I have a one page template (its one page but it might be only a quarter or a half filled with writing) where I identify the theme/objective of the chapter, the conflict, the characters, and the consequence of the scene. I do most of this in bullet points. Having it on paper helps keep me focused and make sure everything serves a purpose within the larger story. Also, by keeping it succinct, I fill or change as I write without spending too much effort.
     
  25. Furbs

    Furbs New Member

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    Hello,

    I have been writing my first YA novel since March last year and my first draft is finally complete. Hurrah! I'm now going through the tricky process of editing down my extremely long 120,000 word novel (split into 50+ chapters) to get rid of all the rubbish.

    So now I'm back at chapter 1, and have already managed to cut it down by one third because of all the unnecessary word dumps I've left in there. Whilst I plan to have my chapters consistent in length (around 2000 / 25000 words each), I've realised the first two or three chapters start out as one long scene, and then as the book goes on and there's more action, the chapters begin to split into smaller scenes (some with four or five scenes in them). The final chapter is one long scene again.

    After doing quite a lot of research into it, I know that scenes can be whatever length they need to be. But my main issue is that because I have quite a lot of characters, I have selected the main few and have written each scene from a different one of their perspectives. I wanted to give it a soap style feel. It almost feels like aside from the first couple of chapters, and the last chapter, the rest are split up into mini chapters, switching from character to character per scene.

    The protagonist has the majority of the scenes (usually at least one in each chapter) with the antagonist having the second highest number. And then there are five other characters the scenes focus on. The number of scenes varying depending on their importance.

    Because I've gone for a 3rd person style, I'm not introducing scenes with character names. Instead I've made sure the beginning of each scene makes it obvious. For example:

    It was 07:00 on the dot. The Tower would be filling up very soon. The rest of his team were due to arrive any minute. Dom looked around the room to check the office still looked immaculate.

    I've read so much advice on this subject and I know that ultimately it depends on the novel itself. But I'm worried that as a very novice writer, this style of head hopping, combined with the inconsistency of scene length, might cause confusion to the reader. I'm not sure if I should stick to one scene per chapter so that readers feel more connected with the characters? Or do I leave it as it is, to get as much action in as possible? Or should I be splitting up the first couple of chapters as well as the rest, to make it more consistent? Even though advice I've read says you shouldn't head hop unless it's crucial to the story. Or maybe I'm just totally out of my depth with the style I've chosen!

    Any advice on this subject would be hugely appreciated!

    Thanks :)
     

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