4th Rejection and buckling. (thin skinned)

Discussion in 'Traditional Publishing' started by Turniphead, Jan 23, 2015.

  1. domenic.p

    domenic.p Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2011
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    63
    Minstrel,
    Ditto...you are correct as always. The only part of A Farewell to Arms that was fiction was the ending. His love did not die in his arms, she left him for a man more her age.

    BayVies, you asked: "Or maybe you're suggesting something else... your last line says the OP just has "to come up with a story that will sell" which is true, obviously, but... how do you reconcile this with your first line, saying the "book does not need a rewrite"?

    If you made the present story fiction, you might want to change the POV, and take out all the "I this, and I that."
     
  2. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    10,462
    Likes Received:
    11,689
    I don't think the key question about Farewell to Arms is how it was marketed - I think the key question is how it was written.

    Obviously we all draw on some aspects of our own lives for our writing, and some books have more 'actual facts' than others. But I think the key difference is the freedom, in a novel, to change reality as needed, to shape plots and characters, and make things more satisfying to readers. (Hence the problem with the secretly fictionalized 'memoirs' out there - the authors realized their actual lives weren't shaped in the most satisfying way and added/moulded reality to fit a narrative structure).

    If we can establish that Farewell to Arms was written as a true account of events and then sold as a novel, without changing the story, then I agree, it would be a good example. I'm not a Hemingway scholar and don't want to become one, but good 'ol Wikipedia says Farewell to Arms isn't strictly autobiographical - that is, he was in the war, he based some of the relationships in the book on relationships he had, but, for example, the book covers some battles he wasn't involved in. So it sounds like he was writing it as a novel, using the freedom a novelist has to change things around as needed. ETA: This idea is strengthened by domenic.p's observation about the ending of the book--Hemingway didn't limit himself to reality, he did what was best for the story.

    A memoirist doesn't have that freedom, so it's pretty likely that the narrative structure of a memoir won't be as tidy/artistic as it could be in fiction. Which, to me, means that a memoir needs something else to distinguish it - a famous author, beautiful writing, or a truly unique and fascinating life.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2015
  3. plothog

    plothog Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    537
    Location:
    England
    I get the vibe, even with fiction, that 'good' writing is only sufficient if you happen to get lucky and write something which happens to be an agent/publishers view of what's just become 'on trend'. (It's also sufficient if you have already established an audience.)
    Otherwise you need to be 'exceptional'.
    I think if your writing is considered good, it's encouraging. I think he means that if you keep writing and submitting stuff at that level of quality you could get lucky and strike on something a publisher was hoping for at that moment.
    Though if you want to increase your odds and not rely on luck so much, you'll need to somehow find a way to push your writing to exceptional.

    That's the view I get on the industry from reading agents blogs anyway. I've never even submitted anything myself, so my view isn't very first hand.
     
  4. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,541
    Likes Received:
    4,776
    I'd hardly call those concerns stupid. They're realistic, and unfortunately, just because your loved one passes away, life doesn't stop and the bills still need paying, the toilet still needs cleaning, and the kid still has to go to football club and you still have to help them find a present for their friend's birthday party. It's just hard to be thinking about those things too when you're dealing with something so much bigger. I've never been through what you have and sometimes I wonder how I'm gonna pay the bills if my husband was gone! He's actually created an encrypted file on my laptop with all the login details for our bank accounts and phones and addresses etc - he always said, it's just in case anything ever happens to him, he needs to know I will have access to all these things and know what to do. (the man's only 28... lol)

    So glad to hear your hubby recovered so well though!
     
  5. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2014
    Messages:
    2,780
    Likes Received:
    1,424
    Location:
    England
    That's a really sensible thing to do!
    It did open my eyes to a lot of things and these days, I tend to run the house and deal with all the finances/passwords and kids. Perhaps things might have been different had he not gone through what he did. Because he's older, I always thought he would look after me but it's ended up being the other. way around LOL.

    I do still worry from time to time that the problem might reoccur or he might - like his father - have an attack that he doesn't recover from but I think if that did happen, I would be more prepared this time.

    Thanks for your kind words x
     
    Trickty and Mckk like this.
  6. Jack Asher

    Jack Asher Banned Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,545
    Likes Received:
    2,083
    Location:
    Denver
    And if you're trying to make it sell it wouldn't hurt to add a sparkly vampire.
     
    Mckk likes this.
  7. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,541
    Likes Received:
    4,776
    hahaha :rofl:

    Now imagine, sparkling vampire and bondage... oh and don't forget he's a billionnare.

    That's probably a cheap novel that's gonna make a million bucks waiting to be written...
     
    cutecat22 and Jack Asher like this.
  8. domenic.p

    domenic.p Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2011
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    63
    I have heard agents say, "The last thing I want to see is another vampire story."
     
  9. Jack Asher

    Jack Asher Banned Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,545
    Likes Received:
    2,083
    Location:
    Denver
    so...
    ...werewolves?
     
  10. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2014
    Messages:
    2,780
    Likes Received:
    1,424
    Location:
    England
    Sparkly werewolves who only hunt demons, have amazing sex and own half the city.


    And are good looking.

    And love their parents.

    And have one strange back story ...
     
  11. Jack Asher

    Jack Asher Banned Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,545
    Likes Received:
    2,083
    Location:
    Denver
    Woah, are you trying to tank his manuscript? The only case in which a main character should still love his/her parents is when they are dead.
     
    daemon and cutecat22 like this.
  12. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2014
    Messages:
    2,780
    Likes Received:
    1,424
    Location:
    England
    Just pulling bits from all over lol
     
  13. Turniphead

    Turniphead Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2014
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    20
    Thanks for all thoughts on this. I'm giving the first three chapters another edit, ready for another attack; even the last agent suggest I keep sending the memoir. I'm also perfecting the first three chapters of my novel - any thoughts on sending out 2 MS at the same time? Obv to different agents.

    For all the guys that say keep going - power to you, and I hope you do the same with great success.
     
  14. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    8,102
    Likes Received:
    4,605
    Wow, I didn't know agents were know so nice!! That's awesome.
     
  15. Turniphead

    Turniphead Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2014
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    20
    Hi

    I don't think the memoir would be a more powerful story if it was fiction; that's just weird. Wouldn't an interesting story be more compelling if it were true? It's down to labels, and publishers like them. I've done a little more editing and I'm going to chuck it at 20 or so agents. After 3 years work, I feel it deserves it.

    I'm also sending out my novel. I think I just need some synchronicity for someone to pick it up. Thing is, I have to come up with 30 different agents to send my novel to, which is a bit daunting, since it was hard enough to find the 20 for the memoir.

    I really find rejection difficult; I believe in my work and think we all should stand by what we produce. If I was unsure of the work, or thought it weak, the rebuttals would hurt less. Writing is a tough business, we all know that; but I didn't think sending the damn things out would prove so difficult.

    Every writer suffers this: an editorial agency that liked the memoir sent it to 2 agents that rejected it. He told me he once sent a book to an agent that involved bullying - the agent told him that bulling was 'very last year.' Then he sent out someone's novel: the response, 'We loved the plot and characters - only problem with it, is that it's set in Wales. We'd take it if it were set in London.'

    As authors we are prey not only to the whim of an individual that will hopefully like our book, but also to trends; 15 years ago, memoirs were as hot as coals, and I think mine would have been eaten out of my hand at that time. We have to write what's in vogue, or commercial trash, otherwise it's tough. Let's face it, vampires were the 'in' thing a few years ago, then I think it was zombies; so if you've written a book on vampires, best change them to zombies; actually I don't even know if zombies are still fashionable - as a previous poster said, it's probably werewolves now.

    Anyhoo - thanks again for the encouragement on this thread - there have been some very supportive comments regarding the initial rejection email I received.

    All in all, I think we all courageous to write at all, let alone sending our progeny out into the pool of sharks.

    I just wish I wasn't so afraid of the bites.
     
    jannert likes this.
  16. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    7,851
    Likes Received:
    3,339
    Location:
    Boston
    Four rejections? Is that it? I've had my heart broken more times than that. :p

    Good luck with the editing!
     
    cutecat22 likes this.
  17. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    10,462
    Likes Received:
    11,689
    A possible caution - it may be a good idea to only send to five or so of your choice agents at once... if there's a problem with the query, you don't want to burn through all the desirable agents before you figure that out.
     
    jannert likes this.
  18. Turniphead

    Turniphead Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2014
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    20
    Third - lol
    Bay - yea I've thought of that and will prob go that way - thx
     
  19. wellthatsnice

    wellthatsnice Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2015
    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    99
    I completely disagree on your point in number 3. The agent wants a book that is marketable and that stands out from the crowd. In memoirs there are different things that can make this happen.

    1.) Being a figure of interest that people want to know more about 2.) Having the memoir cover an issue that is a current hot topic in the media (memoirs of an ex ISIS member would sell insanely well right now, even if its terribly written)
    3.) Brilliant writing and style that puts you in a class all your own.

    The question that authors need to ask more often is "why would anyone want to read my work?" you need to make sure you check off one of those boxes.

    From the agents reply I can tell that the OP doesn't fall into the first 2 categories at this time (not to say they can't), but they can maybe get it to fit the 3rd category. Or they can hold onto the memoir and maybe find a time when it's topic is more relevant. If I tried to sell you a dvd of Charlie Brown Christmas in May you would reject me, if I tried to sell it to you in December I could charge double.
     
  20. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    17,674
    Likes Received:
    19,889
    Location:
    Scotland
    Just to add in here. Think about what would make YOU pick up somebody's autobiography to read. If they just called it something like "My Life" and you didn't know who they were at all, you probably would pass it by in favour of something more focused. Maybe if you were stuck in an elevator for 6 days with a copy of the book, you might start reading it and find it very interesting indeed. But would you pick it up in the first place?

    You haven't really mentioned what your angle is (unless I've missed it) but in order to sell it to an agent, you'll need to be able to sell it to the reading public as well. So I'd come up with an angle that will get people interested in reading the book, and sharpen it. What is it about your life that will make people, who have lives of their own, want to read it?
     
  21. Turniphead

    Turniphead Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2014
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    20
    Hi and thanks for all the responses to this. Thread has been very helpful for me.

    Jann-

    My memoir involves some controversial issues.
    Expose on the corrupt London art-world.
    Even more corrupt Therapy industry.
    And a nationally famous (but dead) UK advice columnist who abused their own kids.
    + a set a sting on me by News Of The World.
    And tons of other stuff.

    :-()
     
    GingerCoffee likes this.
  22. Ryan M Pelton

    Ryan M Pelton New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2015
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    USA
    Do not lose confidence with rejection mate. In our writing field we learn from rejection. It means what we write and what the market demand needs to match perfectly. The rejection does not mean we are not good enough in our writing.
     
    cutecat22 and GingerCoffee like this.
  23. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2014
    Messages:
    2,780
    Likes Received:
    1,424
    Location:
    England
    Very well put!
     
  24. Nightstar99

    Nightstar99 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2013
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    137
    I would be inclined to try and get a name for yourself writing something else and then you have the memoir in reserve. Realistically, as the agent said, it is very difficult to find a market for an autobiography of someone the public haven't heard of.

    Its a shame that ghost written fake autobiographies of D list celebrities fly off the shelves, where other people who have had genuinely interesting lives, cant tell their story. But thats always been the case.

    The comments about your writing sounded very promising, I wouldn't be deterred at all. I wish I had finished something so that I could get a rejection!
     
  25. Tim3232

    Tim3232 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Messages:
    219
    Likes Received:
    99
    Location:
    UK
    My current novel has had 10 rejections so far. Four of them are assumed – with no reply after 6 weeks. Five are just standard rejection responses and the one rejection that was personal and came with a compliment and a reason for rejection is the one that keeps me going. (No response it all is the worst.)

    Actually, I was stalling and thinking I wouldn’t bother with any more submissions but I find myself reading your rejection letter and thinking you should take the positives from it.

    ...so perhaps I’ll let mine breathe a little longer, give it another edit pass and try again. And you should do the same. Mine’s now with someone who reads but isn’t a writer, let’s see what he thinks.

    Good luck, don’t give in.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice