Questions about plagiarism and copyright

Discussion in 'General Writing' started by blubttrfl, Jul 2, 2007.

  1. CedricMiddorick

    CedricMiddorick New Member

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    If the movie's out of copyright (or if the movie is based on a book out of copyright), then by all means pay homage. Elsewise, the only homage you should do is write "Johnny was watching [insert movie title here]".
     
  2. Bryan Romer

    Bryan Romer Contributor Contributor

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    If the film is famous enough, then your readers should recognise the "homage" without specific mention or use of copyrighted material. At most, one of your characters only needs to say something like, "Why does this all seem so familiar?" and then dismiss it. Anything more obvious would be getting into the territory of fan fiction.
     
  3. daemon

    daemon Contributor Contributor

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    Plagiarism has nothing to do with whether or not you borrow material; it has everything to do with whether or not you acknowledge where that material comes from, in a context where you are expected to, e.g. an academic context with standards of citation.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2015
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  4. Tesoro

    Tesoro Contributor Contributor

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    I read about someone - right now I can't remember who it was - who said that he used an entire scene from a movie he liked, in his book (I guess what he meant was the lines of dialogue), but spread out throughout the story, not all at once. One reader recognized one line from it and wrote to the author telling him so, and he informed her that the entire scene was in the book. I thought that was pretty hilarious, and maybe that is easier to get away with. I really like that idea myself :)
     
  5. JosephMarch

    JosephMarch Active Member

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    Is that okay as far as copyright goes? I might change the lines around a bit. There is actually a lot of poetry in my novel, so I want to use some in the title, not just because it is currently the 'in' thing, haha.
     
  6. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Not usually, no. You can usually use the titles of poems, but not the lines of poetry themselves.

    You could look into older poetry, though, stuff that's no longer under copyright.
     
  7. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    Yeah look into copyright regulations. And yes, it hurts when you can't do it. I know because I wanted to have a bunch of pop-culture references in my story...but I have a feeling the Taylor Swift lyric quotes are going to have to go (especially given her penchant for trademark protection over her work.) That said you can mention poems or poets (I use this trick a lot) and beat around the bush so to speak.

    That said - depending on the poets you want to use - anything from the 1800s or earlier is going to have passed into the public domain (and pieces of the early 20th Century depending on what country you're in and where the writer lived). So those you can definitely use.
     
  8. Burlbird

    Burlbird Contributor Contributor

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    Well, everybody who died before 1945 are free to be exploited - everybody who survived WW2 or had the luck to be born afterwards are, unfortunately, off limits... Except if you plan to publish in Moldova, for example. In that case you really are one lucky s.o.b. :D

    You can still, however, use titles of pop songs - lyrics are a no-no, titles are a why-not. Same goes for those poetry-things, and films, and other books of fiction, and geography text-books, and articles from Jstor. Except if you plan to misuse them - you can have a character see a "Ghostbusters" movie, but you can't have a story about four ghost hunters in 80s NYC who fight a giant marshmellow and call themselves the Ghostbusters.... (I always thought that no body is that stupid, by the way, but history taught me otherwise. :p )

    Yeah, and of course, if you really neeeeeeed that three verses from an untitled 1972 Philip Levine poem (your whole narrative is going to crumble to pieces without them!) you can always send a letter to Random House and ask for permission etc. If they ever get back to you, you may be asked to pay 50-500$ for it... Or you can find a Moldovan poet who would be glad to give you permission to use his verses for free! :D
     
  9. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    The other thing to think about is what's important to you and what you may be willing to pay for the rights to later. Not advocating this but I've done a bit of lyric quoting in my own stuff and while I limit it and realize it may get cut, I leave some of it ithere draft because it helps and because I may one day want to ask a publisher how much we would have to pay Taylor Swift and/or Kesha to leave them in.
     
  10. Some_Bloke

    Some_Bloke Active Member

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    I know what you're going to say "You shouldn't even worry about this sort of thing when you haven't even started writing your story" it's the same thing I'm telling myself. I write stories for fun after all but just in case I ever get the confidence to publish I don't want to have to edit my work too much.

    I could always use google for my questions but it always gives me multiple sources, each one saying different things for any question I ask so I'll ask here instead.

    One of my characters, Gregory is a lover of pre-world war three culture. I mean movies, literature, even TV show and videogames. Music is bound to be included in that mix, too.

    To the best of my knowledge, you're not allowed to write down song lyrics straight from the song (even if you state the title and who the original artist is) so I don't intend to do so. Are you however, allowed to post song titles themselves? Say for example:

    "Gregory pushed the button gently, causing Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen to blast from the speakers. He was quiet at first but once the chorus started, Gregory sang as if he knew the lyrics off by heart. His singing voice was awful, completely out of tune but it didn't seem to bother him."
     
  11. wellthatsnice

    wellthatsnice Active Member

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    Song titles are not protected under copyright law the same way that lyrics are so feel free to use them for setting period context. Lyrics are protected, so be very careful if and when you use them.
     
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  12. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Yeah, titles are fine, artists are fine. It's just the lyrics that are out.
     
  13. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Pop culture references are fine. If you can make a fair use or de minimis use argument, then you might be able to make use of some of the lyrics, but it can be tricky with short works like songs and there is no bright-line rule you can use as to what is OK.

    Also, uses for satire or parody are protected.
     
  14. Some_Bloke

    Some_Bloke Active Member

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    While we're on the topic of "what's in, what's out" in terms of copyright, what about quotes from works of literature, films, tv shows (ect)?
     
  15. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Again, there is no bright-line rule (speaking of U.S. law here btw; I see you're in N. Ireland). The larger the work, the easier it is to argue that a single quote is fair use, since the amount of the work you've used, in comparison to the whole, is one of the tests for determining fair use.

    UK has "fair dealing" provisions, but from what I know of them they're a bit more limited than fair use in the U.S.
     
  16. wellthatsnice

    wellthatsnice Active Member

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    It's risky. A couple words or a having a guy quote a catchphrase that has become popular in pop culture and you are safe. If you start pulling blocks of text and include it...then you are wading into territory where you should probably secure permission.
     
  17. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    It depends on the age of the work of literature, of course. Lots of the classics are out of copyright you can do what you want with them.
     
  18. stevesh

    stevesh Banned Contributor

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    I would go with the advice offered by @Steerpike and @BayView, but I have to say I've never understood the urge to include current song lyrics in fiction works.
     
  19. Some_Bloke

    Some_Bloke Active Member

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    So quoting Robocop's "I'd by that for a dollar" is fine but taking Littlefinger's entire "Chaos is a ladder" speech is off?
     
  20. Some_Bloke

    Some_Bloke Active Member

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    So what would the case be with Edgar Allen Poe's work?
     
  21. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    I think Poe is public domain but I'm not a lawyer and copyright laws may vary based on your location.
     
  22. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Poe is in the public domain in the U.S., and probably everywhere. Anything published with the author's permission prior to 1923 will be in the public domain in the U.S.
     
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  23. Some_Bloke

    Some_Bloke Active Member

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    I just checked on the laws. Anything published prior to either 1923 or 1900 (not sure on which it is as the sources said different things) is public domain in the UK. That makes all of Poe's work public domain, and therefore quotable in a book.
     
  24. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    As an aside, keep in mind that in some instances, for short phrases or titles, you might also have to consider trademark law. Those things aren't usually protected by copyright. A mention in the text of your work isn't going to run afoul of trademark law generally, but using it as a title may if what you're using is protected.
     
  25. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    I think there's also the context. Usually, if you are quoting a manufacturer/named thing, like, a BMW or a MacDonald's big mac, as long as you are not slagging the company or product, then you are ok.

    As other's have mentioned, there are things which, once they are a certain age, they are public domain anyway.

    I am dealing with this at the moment as I am applying for copyright to reproduce lyrics from a song. I have first had to find out who owns the rights and the song I want to use is actually owned by a number of different people who own different percentages. The company I'm dealing with owns 85% so they are my main contact. As part of the application for permission, I've had to include the section of the book - complete with lyrics - as I want to use them. If I get permission and the book then differs, I will get sued.

    If I do get permission, I have to pay for it AND, it's only given for a limited time which is a certain amount of sold books or a time limit, this is something that you work out during the application process.

    So, all in all, it depends just how badly you want it in your story.

    And I want it badly! If you're interested, I'll let you all know how I get on!
     

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