Gold's the worst idea

Discussion in 'Research' started by I Am Vague, Jan 31, 2015.

  1. tonguetied

    tonguetied Contributor Contributor

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    If he is only 20 and not really experienced in handling money the idea of buying something valuable would probably backfire. He wouldn't know a good deal from a bad deal, knowing if a diamond has good qualities along with any jewel takes an expert, one you can fully trust. Same for antiques, rare coins, stamps, etc. Buying property has the paper trail pitfall to the extreme.

    Laundering the money is your best bet. I have seen several used car dealerships near me that made me wonder if they were a cover for witness protection or something like that since the same cars sit on the lot continuously, some had flat tires, all had thick layers of dust, etc. In the end putting the cash into safety deposit boxes and investing some in multiple brokerages such as mutual funds then moving it around from firm to firm would allow him to appear to be a great stock analyst. After building some money up large sums being deposited would not look very suspicious, IMO.
     
  2. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributor Contributor

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    Question. Is there a plot restriction here? As stated laundering the money is what needs to be done but I get the impression that this kid doesn't quite realize that. So what is the goal here? Your original idea of buying gold led me to believe the kid was trying to think of something smart but failed. Was that what you wanted? Or had some plot idea around him getting busted/robbed?
    Personally the coolest thing I think a kid might think of is the buying collectables. Based purely on his ability to hide them behind a random persons ignorance to there value. This is in a sense a soft laundering technique if the sales are done under the table he can make excuses on how he gained them. Like claiming he bought a rare comic for a cheap rate. Like the person didn't know what they had.
    Bearer Bonds sounds really cool but I can't help wondering how that exactly helps him. I assume a cop might ask him the same question if he is caught with a million in cash or a million in bearer bonds. Though for storage bearer bonds are indeed easier.
    Me personally I challenge why he has to covert it at all. If he is a kid that doesn't know better why not have him rent a storage unit under a false name. He just hides boxes of cash in the unit.

    This would completely not work in this context. See he has to explain how he can buy it. People report their earnings. So a guy who makes way to little to buy property is can raise red flags. Granted maybe no one looks close but the moment someone does they know he is hiding something and they have proof being that his reported earnings are lower than the property. Even if the money was earned legally they would get him on not reporting the earnings.
     
  3. Jon Edwards

    Jon Edwards Member

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    What about old, perfectly restored, mechanically sound cars? Like he stumbled upon an abandoned warehouse or was given them by the people he worked for. I think I saw a news article that said someone actually stumbled across an abandoned warehouse full of cars such as this.
     
  4. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    But what I don't get is why people assume this character is gonna be checked at all? Most people don't question how you come to have the money you have - they only care that you do. If you pay in full in cash, suspicious though it might look to the real estate agent, he has no reason to refuse you.

    For example, my personal monthly earnings wouldn't pay all my bills (husband pays them). Yet some months ago, due to the crashing Czech currency, we transfered our Czech savings to my British account. Of course we still lost a chunk of money cus of that, but it's better than owning a mass of currency whose value seems to only ever be dropping. The chunk we transferred wasn't anything grand like the story in question - but it's a good amount.

    Did I get a letter from the police from either country asking me how on earth I got the money? Why on earth I'd want to transfer the cash? How I even have that much money to transfer in the first place? Security phone calls? Of course not.
     
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  5. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Hmm. One advantage of the stamp idea is that the kid could have learned about stamps, stamp values, how to buy them, etc., as a kid. Few kids grow up buying gold or emeralds. A non-trivial number of kids collect stamps. His highest-value stamp as a kid might have been five or fifty dollars, while now it might be fifty thousand, but he might still be comfortable with that financial world.

    Edited to add: On the other hand, if you want to be completely unique, there is the disadvantage that Lawrence Block has a character who is a stamp-collecting hit man. He doesn't collect them to lauder his money, but it means that Criminal Who Collects Stamps isn't a completely new idea.
     
  6. plothog

    plothog Contributor Contributor

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    I'm not sure of the exact conditions that trigger it, but I know for a fact that banks will ask for proof of the source of funds if enough money comes into a personal account. They ask this to comply with anti money laundering regulations. This is in the UK.
     
  7. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    Well mine are regular savings lol. But in the case of the OP's story, if the character were just purchasing valuables and/or property with his money, in cash, why should there be any danger of being tracked?
     
  8. kfmiller

    kfmiller Active Member

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    Even if it's cash you still have to provide proof of funds and a bank statement. The title company may raise a red flag if there are abnormally large deposits or your balance doesn't match what you've provided as your revenue stream. For instance, you say you're a teacher but your available balance is $10,000,000 with regular $50,000 deposits.
     
  9. plothog

    plothog Contributor Contributor

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    I think for most purchases there wouldn't be a problem. For property purchases there is so much legal paperwork involved, it's probably about the most traceable thing you could do with your money. And the process involves two seperate solicitors and you normally send your money via both solicitor's bank accounts before it reaches the seller.
    Property would be something you buy with money which has been successfully laundered and already sitting in a bank account rather than turning up to a solicitor with suitcases full of cash.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
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  10. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributor Contributor

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    A thing to remember is this. The MC of the OP is breaking the law. Which means people(cops) might already be looking at him. You can't really buy land under a false name. I mean the point of being it is so you can prove it is yours. But that proof becomes a noose because what can he say when the cops ask this;

    "How did you buy that 2 million dollar home? On a minimum wage 20k a year job?"

    It isn't sudden money that is the issue the only issue. I said in my post that I believe fully that it is possible that he could buy a home and possible be unnoticed. The point was if he does it becomes proof the cops need to bust him. So if the cops do look they can and mostly will find something. So in your case. First I assume your not breaking the law. so cops have less of a reason to look at you. Second even if they did yours came from a legal source being your husband. Unless he is secretly a crime boss.
    Purchasing valuables or property is slightly different. See under the table deals like paying me two million for a rare painting. That is something can work. I didn't give you a paper of the deal. If the cops find it you can even argue that it is a fake that you bought at the goodwill. Property on the other hand is official. It has paperwork. You can't just pay cash and expect to be anonymous. Heck the point of buying it is to be able to prove in a court of law that you own it. That means papers. Papers that can be hard to explain.
     
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  11. I Am Vague

    I Am Vague Active Member

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    tonguetied, He wouldn't know the difference, and could probably get screwed over if someone were to take advantage of him, but he uses a man he is very close to to exchange the cash for him. There's no reason to trust him, but in the end, let's just say he's good on his word. And seeing how he's taking a cut for himself for working with him, he'd make good on the gem-to-dollar. They're partners, so to give him the shit end would also give a fair amount of recoil on his part. And it's not like the man would be buying them from a reputable source, so no paperwork, no hassle. Briefcase for briefcase.

    GuardianWynn, actually I did have a thought about people uncovering it somewhere in all the drama. I thought it to be a major turning point, because it would link the gem trade boom to, at the very least, being in their town. Plus, if it was found in their home, there would be hell to pay, and I think that would be interesting for someone to try and weasel their way out of. It'd be like the whole story is going to waste, and he'll definitely try to stop it all from unraveling itself. The reason he would not go and invest in a business or rent a storage unit, is because he's very sketchy, only trusting himself to hide it in an easy access place only he knows of where if need be he can move it himself. You are also right about property. There's still a chance he could get in trouble even if he did everything perfectly, it only takes one prying eye to ruin everything.

    He is stupid to a degree, about as accurate as I could describe. He's still a kid, has been doing nothing with his life, and knows nothing of the real world, and would easily resort to this method. Just imagine that scummy kid you knew in school who you were positive was never going to amount to anything in his life. You're sure he'd be 40 year burger flipper, but instead, against all odds, he comes into massive amounts of money.

    However, the second MC would be more accustomed to laundering what they earned. A car dealership actually sounds like a brilliant idea. If he did choose to invest in a business, they could always invest a small amount and just happen to get an amazing "turnaround" in the business.
     
  12. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    A few fake IDs and a few bank accounts? That way he would have instant access to the money in whatever quantities he needs, nobody else could touch it, and it would be difficult to 'find' him. Or, failing that, a safety deposit box? Or two?
     
  13. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributor Contributor

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    Thought? So you're not sure exactly where you want to go? This thread has plenty of awesome ideas but the fact remains until you know what you want to do with this plot line you can't really pick. You can't have him doing something that won't get him busted if you want to have him get busted and so on and so forth. Good luck on your choice.
     
  14. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    That is completely untrue. lol

    He can pick whatever tactic he wants, whenever he wants. He may not know yet if he wants his character to get caught or not, but that doesn't mean he can't choose a form of hiding the money before he decides that. Even if he chose gems, the character can still get caught. If he chooses property, the character can still get caught. Every option is equally risky, and the potential to get caught is there no matter what.

    Besides, there are plenty of people in the world who write novels with no idea how they want it to end. Are you saying they are all doing it wrong because they don't know where they want their story to go right away?
     
  15. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributor Contributor

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    No no no. I mean there are risky and really risky and not so risky ways to go about using the money he gained illegally. If the writer wants it to lead to a plot line that gets him in trouble like the cash or gems being stolen then he can't exactly pick buying a business to launder the money. If he doesn't want him to get caught then he might not want to pick buying property which is the highest risk in my opinion.

    I do think he has a lot of options and range. I was suggesting he pick a direction he wants it to go before picking an action. Yeah as a writer I think the advice of;
    "Have an idea where you want to go before you pick exact plot points" is decent advice. Do you disagree?
     
  16. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    Hahaha the idea made me giggle :rofl:
     
  17. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributor Contributor

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    I aim to please ;)
     
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  18. Lea`Brooks

    Lea`Brooks Contributor Contributor

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    No, I don't disagree. But that style of writing only works for some people, not all.

    Me, I'm a heavy planner. I have to know everything before I move on. Every character, every chapter, every twist and turn. But many other people don't plan a lick. They just sit down and write, then come back and edit later when they've decided on a direction.

    I just suggest you steer clear of the word "can't" when it comes to giving advice. It suggests that there is only one way go about things, when that's often not the case.

    Thank you for clarifying.
     
  19. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributor Contributor

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    I always am willing to clarify. I must admit I usually don't get replies on my choice of words in other forums. I mean your main reason for replying was the use of the word "you can't really" instead of "I wouldn't advise"?
    I guess I shouldn't be surprised on a writing forum so fair enough. Few things are so set in black and white. I didn't mean to imply he wasn't allowed to fly by the seat of his pants.
     
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  20. Dunning Kruger

    Dunning Kruger Active Member

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    You want your MC to launder it. The easiest way is to start a business where you create fictitious transactions. Restaurants are great for this. How do you know a party of 5 didnt order 3 steaks, dessert and a nice bottle of wine? There's a reason the Mob loved(s) bars and restaurants. Or any business that involves the trading of goods like wholesaling that ideally are hard to track. Aftermarket car parts is another idea. And the bar/restaurant idea is not outside the realm of possibility of a 20 year old.

    The problem with buying property like gold or real estate is that the IRS can nail you. The IRS wont get you first but the FBI, lacking other evidence, will use the IRS for their own purposes. And if you are making minimum wage, the likelihood of having cash to buy $100,000 in gold is unlikely so it would be a red flag. Real estate is even worse. Forms and legal documents up the wazoo.

    Jewelry is always an idea because its transportable but it is still difficult to sell. People buying and selling to you will know you have legal issues and will exact a premium or discount in exchange.
     
  21. TheClassified

    TheClassified New Member

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    Hey, well diamonds is the worst idea you can have. The value is artificially created. Gold, on the other hand, is great, because it holds it's value. Aside from processed gold, where you pay the polishing and handwork, solid gold bars are good. 1kg gold bars are worth 35'000€ and they are not that big. So you can store gold pretty good.

    But if you want money laundry, it's best to get involved in a small business. Other things that keep their value are properties, cars, art. You need to know that you will lose a lot of money during the laundry if you want to stay undetected. So becoming a collector of watches is nice, but they lose value. But still, your character has laundered his money and can then turn it into real money, which is better than having a shitload of money under his pillow.

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Boger

    Boger Senior Member

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    If there is a god; gold is it's fingerprint. It can't be replicated.
     
  23. Dunning Kruger

    Dunning Kruger Active Member

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    During the Nazi holocaust, jewels were a jewish person's best friend. What was a German soldier or civilian that might aid your hiding or escape going to do with a bar of gold? If someone found them with it they would assume it was obtained by illicit means. Jewels, jewelry, gems etc were useful. They're small and beautiful, can be given as gifts to the opposite sex and are far less likely to attract unwanted attention.

    As to the goldbugs here, all value is relative. Yes gold has properties that make it distinctly useful as a medium of exchange relative to other goods. But, at the end of the day, if nobody has a use for it, it will have no value.
     
  24. tonguetied

    tonguetied Contributor Contributor

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    Gold does have many uses besides usage as currency. Electrical contacts are often plated with gold since it doesn't corrode quickly and has good conductive qualities. Gold leaf can be hammered out to a few molecules thick, very few other elements can be treated that way. I think there are medical uses for gold as well, not sure if they are really valid or more of a placebo effect.
     
  25. Jack Asher

    Jack Asher Banned Contributor

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    No. Gold does not "hold its value."
    http://goldprice.org/
     

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