The Point of View questions thread

Discussion in 'Point of View, and Voice' started by SB108, Jul 8, 2007.

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  1. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax Contributor Contributor

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    I've written both first and third: so has Shadowfax.

    It depends on what you're trying to do, and how closely you want to put the reader inside the MC's head.

    I'd say that first person is harder over the course a full-length novel, where you may want to shift POV to show the reader something crucial to the plot, but which the MC isn't party to - yet!
     
  2. Tim3232

    Tim3232 Active Member

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    I had only written in 3rd until my last. The only pitfall I found was that I was so much in the MC's head and in the MC's voice that I had to be careful to retain that voice. From time to time I had to rewrite several pages because I could see I had wandered away from sounding like the MC.
     
  3. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    I write in both (Romance in close third, YA in first).

    I have a bit of trouble with first b/c I want to use the 'right' words and more complex concepts than my characters would likely grasp, and I'm constrained from doing so. But it's not a huge deal.
     
  4. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    I've written in both. I tend to prefer first person when I have a particular need for an unreliable narrator - that is, when I want to withhold some important detail from the reader until a critical point in the story that an objective 3rd person narrator would have no excuse for withholding. Otherwise, I tend to prefer 3rd person limited because I find shifting POVs is much easier. This is not to say that one cannot shift POVs in 1st person. You can, but the breaks must be more obvious (you pretty much have to do it by chapter change, not just a scene change) and the narrative voice has to be distinctly different for each POV.

    It is also possible to have both 1st and 3rd person narratives in the same novel. Hemingway did so in To Have and Have Not.
     
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  5. outsider

    outsider Contributor Contributor

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    Both in my current WIP.
     
  6. wellthatsnice

    wellthatsnice Active Member

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    I traditionally write in 3rd person, however when i have writers block one of my tricks to help break out of it is to write the scene im stuck on in first person stream of consciousness. Its amazing how a change in perspective can open everything up. Once i have that outline i then go back and do a re-write so that its in the same 3rd person style as the preceding text.

    Then to echo what Ed said, i write in first person when i have an MC who i specifically want to be manipulating the reader through withholding information or outright lying.
     
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  7. JTW

    JTW New Member

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    What would be considered easier? Or is that just down to the individual? I have only written in first, although I would like to learn more about third.
     
  8. ChaosReigns

    ChaosReigns Ov The Left Hand Path Contributor

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    at first i used to write in first person, but each time i did, it got to a few thousand words then stopped, i reverted to third and found to be writing a lot easier, its not to say i wouldnt go back to first, in fact i intend to for one of my next projects
     
  9. TWErvin2

    TWErvin2 Contributor Contributor

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    I've written in both third and first person. Many of my short stories/novelettes have been in third person POV. All of my novels in first person POV.

    One of the difficult aspects of first person POV to be aware of is that in telling the story via first person POV, you only have access to what the POV character knows, thinks, observes (sees, hears, feels reads, etc.), learns or suspects. While this may seem obvious, it requires quite a bit more planning than using third person, especially with multiple POVs.
     
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  10. JTW

    JTW New Member

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    Those are my thoughts. I've written a few short stories in first person, albeit I get the notion that the longer the story progresses the more beneficial it would be written in third? So far I'm merely just trying to attain as much knowledge and experimenting as I can to hopefully put to use further down the road.
     
  11. ScottM84

    ScottM84 Member

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    I can see that there would be places in which the knowledge of the narrator might be limited in the first person, but there could also be places where his knowledge has filled in over time because he's recounting the story years after it happened. The MC is a hockey player who defected from Czechoslovakia in the mid-80's.

    I will have to adjust to observing the limits of the narrator, but I still think it's more effective first person because of the personal nature of the story. I'm also more than willing to tackle the challenge even if first person might be more difficult. What fun is writing if there's not a challenge or something to piece together?
     
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  12. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I've written in both. First is more restrictive, and most of what you can domin first can be just as effective in third.

    However, first, in enforcing the single point of view, reinforces that viewpoint to the experienced reader.

    Also, the unreliable narrator approach practically demands first person.

    The greatest pitfall of first is the "I" bludgeon, mostly resulting from excessively focusing inward instead of outward.
     
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  13. Lancie

    Lancie Senior Member

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    I write both. It definitely changes the POV which will effect the plot.

    I've also gotten a fair way into something and thought it would be better in a different tense, which is a bugger to sort out.
     
  14. Boger

    Boger Senior Member

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    Third person can be considered more easy then first person, since it can make a very descriptive tale of unfolding events, even step wise something like a recipe or summary. First person opens the door easily to more intricacy which is challenging, and needs more work, and if it works it can look much more prettier then the same story written in third person entirely. The mingled combination of both first and third can be messy, but certainly has it charm.
     
  15. Shbooblie

    Shbooblie Senior Member

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    I'm currently writing my first piece and its all in first person. I like the idea that the character is telling me what has happened not a middle man or narrator describing it. I find it a really good way to get into the characters head.
    I also like how when the character is giving you their perceptions of events it is a biased opinion based on their experiences and likes/dislikes and the reader has to bear that in mind that the character could be lying or have a distorted view of the truth.

    As for reading, I think stories written in the first person feel a lot more personal and real. I like an element of realism in a story and sometimes when stories are in third person it kind of pulls me out of the world a little bit.
     
  16. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

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    I've used both in novels and short stories. One novel I even wrote in third, wasn't satisfied and wrote the third draft?- I think? - In first.
    I didn't like it and switched back.
    Here's some cons of first -
    the viewpoint is limiting - if your mc hasn't heard about something it's irrelevant whether or not it happened. You're mc has to take notice but he can never be sure unless he's told. For instance in Lolita when Humbert leaves the hotel room the reader can't 'see' her hooking up with Quilty all we can do is take in the evidence Humbert notices - her smudged lipstick, gravely slippers, pleased look and assume like he does.

    the tone needs careful watching - Because everything rests on the I pov the character - whoever he is will effect the tone of the book. If the mc is a naïve dimwit you have to watch that she/he doesn't pull the entire book down to her level ( I'm thinking 50 shades and Flowers in the Attic ). If he's cynical ( Holden Caufield ) the book's tone can become cynical.

    Everything rest on your character - Unlike third which can adapt any viewpoint an I pov rests on how good/interesting your mc is.

    The I's and filter words can get out of control. - It takes practice to get good at not referring to the character constantly. One trick I've learned is to back off from trying to get the reader to 'see' the scene instead to more experience the scene through the character.

    Some pros of first -
    If you want an unreliable narrator it's practically a must.

    If you have a character with a unique pov I pov can really enhance it.

    If you want to have complete control over the viewpoint and action ( albeit filtered ) it's a good pov to use. Romance and horror good genres to use I pov as it can keep the reader in the intensity of feelings.

    I've used I pov for a robot story from the robot's pov, from a teacher's pov who is having a nervous breakdown and becomes increasingly unreliable, from a business owner's pov who is suspicious of everyone and for a few other shorts.

    I'd practice for a scene to decide whether or not it's the right pov for you. I did a whole draft of a novel before realizing it was terrible. I'm not sure if it was the restricted viewpoint or the fact that I was trying to imitate Nabokov and it backfired.
     
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  17. Hubardo

    Hubardo Contributor Contributor

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    I have a short story written in 1st person (letter by MC), 3rd person (general narration), and 1st person again (another letter).
     
  18. Blighters

    Blighters Member

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    I've written the odd short story in 1st - Just to see what it was like. Enjoyed it and found it more of a challenge but not sure I could handle a longer peice with it. Found it great with erotica though as so much of the experience was 'internal' (thoughts, reactions, emotions etc). Found it much easier to express these when writing in 1st.

    I should probably have more of a swing at it just to gain experiance.
     
  19. obsidian_cicatrix

    obsidian_cicatrix I ink, therefore I am. Contributor

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    I started off writing my novel in Third, but due to my narrator being overly pass remarkable, I decided to give First a go. The weird thing for me, was that it took me to write in First to understand why my Third Person narrative was so intrusive. I'm not sure that information would have clicked otherwise.

    You should give it a go, maybe write up a couple of shorts or passages first to help you get a feel for it. I asked for recommendations of books in different styles and genres to see what was possible. I wouldn't say it is a preference, but I'm glad to have had the opportunity to experiment, as I feel I understand both better.
     
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  20. Hubardo

    Hubardo Contributor Contributor

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    That's so cool.
     
  21. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Has anyone written in second?

    I wrote a short story in it and LOVED it, but I've never done anything longer, b/c nobody seems to like reading it.

    Except me. I like reading it, I like writing it. There, I said it. I'm a fan of second person!
     
  22. ScottM84

    ScottM84 Member

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    I'll play around with first person a bit and see how I can do with it. The more replies to this thread that I read, the more convinced I become that first person would be ideal for the story I have in mind.

    The local library here never had the largest collection of books, but one series they had quite a few of that I loved as a kid were the "Choose Your Own Adventure" series. Those were all set in second person, and I liked that perspective. Maybe we're rare, but you're not the only one.
     
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  23. Hubardo

    Hubardo Contributor Contributor

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    I've tried but haven't able to really follow through. It feels unnatural. I'd have to really think about a way for it to make sense, like a sci-fi setting where you're being told by a computer about your experiences in virtual reality or something. Or a hypnotist or shaman walking you through a vision. But even then I would probably want it as a portion of a story written in primarily 1st or 3rd.
     
  24. Krispee

    Krispee Contributor Contributor

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    I`ve written in both third and first and do prefer first. It seems more immediate and personal and being able to put your yourself in the shoes of the protagonist is a great help in imagining the scene you`re writing about.
     
  25. NiallRoach

    NiallRoach Contributor Contributor

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    I know that this is a much maligned POV, but damnit, I love writing it.
    For the uninitiated, objective POV is where the 'narrator' stays firmly out of the heads of the characters, only relaying information which would be obvious to a present audience (like in a play or movie, hence its other names of dramatic and cinematic).

    Basically everything I write falls into the POV, and while I'm not too worried about the fact that it seems to be so wildly unpopular, I am a little confused by it. There's so much potential for subtlety, and I've never been too convinced by the notion that readers need to be inside the head of characters to care about them.
    The other pitfall I've heard of is that the reader simply won't understand the characters' emotions, something which was dispelled for me when my girlfriend (not the most unbiased source, I know, but she's honest) commented that she understood a particular character's actions and feelings perfectly, when the scene in question was little more than her standing on a riverbank, trying to get a hold of another character via phone. The overall context of the previous few scenes helped with that, of course, but they were all presented the same way.

    Do people hate reading this? Writing it? Has anyone else given it a go?
     

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