I've got very strong feelings on this topic, but you'll note that I've let a whole page go by without making a single comment ...oops ...slipped up...
In some cases they achieve one of their 20 posts for posting in the workshop. Some newbies scour the forums desperately, looking for things they've already developed an opinion on to get there post count up. I certainly did. Here's a nice easy subject in a nice prominent sticky. Then this thread shows up in recent posts and attracts more established members who are looking for active discussions.
The reason the thread should die is that it can be demonstrated, empirically, that both the use of italics for internal monologue, and the lack of them, are acceptable in professional, published fiction. We therefore know who is correct and beating one's head against reality isn't going to change it.
To be fair, it's a pretty common question. I had the same question when I first joined the forum. Not everyone knows going in that using italics for thoughts might not be the best strategy. Hell, I've read books written by people who should've known better use italics for thoughts.
You REALLY want the thread to start all over again, don't you? I state, on the record, that I only partially agree with your evidence ("...acceptable...") and even if I do, I do not agree with your decree that the evidence is enough to eliminate the debate. Plenty of things that are accepted by a fair percentage of publishers are still regarded as problematic. And I state, on the record, that my declining to respond to any similar future decrees will not mean that I agree with those decrees. And I hope that those statements will stop me from participating in this thread again--unless we unexpectedly get a genuinely new nuance on the issue.
You had it right up to this point. I don't think a person new to the question has to say something new to post in the thread. Sometimes they are just asking the question out loud instead of silently reading the thread, or they might be adding their opinion to the mix even if it is not new. If only people in the thread would stop right here: But instead, the naysayers feel obligated to continue to bash the convention. Then people like me feel obligated to point out their opinions are not universal. One side says both conventions are OK, one side says only their POV is [fill in the blank]. That's why the thread won't die (in my opinion of course).
Yeah. You have reasonable people (hey, either of these ways will work), and unreasonable ones (mein Gott! Only my way is right!). Until the good and noble and reasonable folks, who see the value in various approaches to the art, triumph over the dastardly "whoever uses italics should be boiled with his own pudding" crowd, the thread goes on.
@outsider I noticed that, but I was still compelled to mention my thoughts. Nevermind that. Well, even if you don't want an answer, I think the question is a good question. It happens for one simple reason, one of the inherent flaws of all message boards: No one in their right mind will read through 32 pages between page 1 and page 34 (I'm guilty of that myself, quite often). So stuff in some threads gets said and repeated and discussion keeps happening as if it just started. And it'll last forever... or at least until someone complains and the rest of the people go like "oh! 394 pages! Yea there's no point anymore." That said I'm outta here. I came late and I'm just fattening the thread.
32 pages does sound a bit intimidating, but I did read through all of the 16 pages that this thread had when I first found it. (I wasted way too much time doing that, I realised afterwards... )
I'm not sure if I should ask in this thread, but it seemed inappropriate to start up a new thread for a question that's related. What would you guys and girls use in terms of posters and advertisements? In the current book I'm reading (Mr Mercedes by Stephen King) he uses BIG CAPITAL LETTERS when writing what signs, posters, and so on say. I get the feeling this has been added by the publisher, but unsure. Thoughts?
Hmmm. I've never come across this in my own writing, except to say 'the door with the white plastic number nine' Hmmm. Should I have written, 'the door with the white plastic number 9' That's an interesting question.
*smh* I read some of the replies, and the first one that simply says "don't use italics..." Seriously. If you can't back your response, don't make a response. Italics for thoughts is not only more than acceptable, it can be a very effective method. I use it, in fact. Many top-selling novelists roll with this method, in fact. What it does for you is allows you not to have to slap on the "he thought, she thought" tag as much, thus tightening the writing. However, do be careful not to confuse DIRECT thought with RHETORICAL thought. For example: Sarah faced her greatest challenge yet. Would he feel as she does? Would she even have the courage to face him? (A crappy writing example, I realize, but it's a quick, shoot-from-the-hip, for-conversation's-sake bit) In the case above, the character is thinking it, but not directly. Instead, the narrator is explaining to the reader that the character is thinking this. On the other hand: Sarah faced her greatest challenge yet. Will he love me as I love him? Can I even get myself to do this? The italics in this case indicates that the character is thinking this in real-time--they are DIRECT thoughts, which is what italics is most suitable for. So yes, you italics if it's your preferred method. It can be a great way to bring clarity to a piece while showcasing your character's introspection and reflection in a scene.
And yet, here you are . Please. We're people and, more than that, we are WRITERS, which means we won't hesitate to dump our opinions into a thread at a moment's whim . Nah, the only thing that had me chiming in was a few responses that said it was bad to use italics in this way. Personally, I don't think they know what they're talking about. *shrugs*
I personally like the idea of using italics for thought, but I also agree that having italics in every other sentence can be quite horrid. I find this is caused more by the fact that we use italics for more than just thought. It might be a concept that will be more prevalent in modern literature, so the question is: do we start using that method, or should be stick to our own preferences?
Aye, good point. Overuse of near anything is something to be mindful of--it can take away from the impact in a big way. It's one of the reasons why I'm personally not a huge fan of italicizing dream sequences (not that I use dream sequences all that often--they tend to be overdone). Done with some skill and an eye for timing and balance (like most things), italics can be a powerful tool.
This example would work just as fine without the italics. And there is no need to use thought tags either. Sarah faced her greatest challenge yet. Will he love me as I love him? Can I even get myself to do this?
I guess it really all comes down to the readers ability to understand that it's a thought. Maybe authors should have more faith in their readers intellect, but it could also be argued that a younger readership might struggle to determine certain aspects.
ooooo...I wanna say something, I wanna I wanna ...no no no no no ...go away, go play in traffic, shut up shut up ...g'night....
I like italics for flashbacks. It works for me. I don't have many flashbacks, maybe three in a 500 page book but they are not short. Perhaps two to five pages. I needed the reader to know all the way through it, that it was a flashback, a memory, something important that they didn't need to know at the time, but need to know now.
