Alcholism

Discussion in 'Research' started by Chelsea, Jul 1, 2015.

  1. No-Name Slob

    No-Name Slob Member Supporter Contributor

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    I feel like just about everybody has some kind of vice and could benefit greatly from therapy. The only thing is that not everybody's vice will kill them, someone else, or put them behind bars the way alcohol and drugs will. Not saying that drug or alcohol addictions are worse vices than those experienced by most people; they're just more obvious to society and will kill you faster.
     
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  2. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    Oh no. I never felt like a failure - at least once I got away from AA and therapy. I accepted my humanity, and was able to understand that, like anything else in life, nobody gets it right the first time - or even the fifth time. I had to practice sobriety, and then I was able to determine how much non-sobriety I could handle.

    Perhaps instead of saying "I think it's time you got some help", one could say "What do you think - are you doing okay or do you want a booster?". Then the decision comes from their evaluation - not somebody else's. Sometimes the answer won't please family or friends - but until the decision comes from the addict, it won't matter anyway.
     
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  3. No-Name Slob

    No-Name Slob Member Supporter Contributor

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    Very true.
     
  4. Ben414

    Ben414 Contributor Contributor

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    It's interesting that you say everybody has some kind of vice. It reminds me of how I used to think about alcoholism and other addictions when I was younger and less knowledgeable about the world. The belief that addicts can't help when they relapse or that family members need to always forgive addicts' behavior because they have an addiction can seem like double standards. Any person who does any crime always has some sort of mental factor that caused them to act that way. There are certainly degrees of this of course, and I'm not an expert in neuroscience to talk in depth about this, but it can superficially seem that some people want to give them a free pass.

    The addiction can explain the behavior, but how does one place blame on the behavior? Poor choices caused by addiction is not something that the person literally has no control over; it is possible to stop making poor choices. Yet, the recidivism rate is so high that it can't be legitimately compared to just any other bad behavior. For example, how an alcoholic verbally abusing his wife when he relapses compare to a person with anger issues who also occasionally verbally abuses his wife?

    The thing is that I think most people can acknowledge both that something like alcoholism can make it exceptionally difficult to avoid certain bad actions AND still hold the person with alcoholism responsible for his actions. How much responsibility is an open question. If someone has been negatively affected by someone with alcoholism, I would never hold any moral high ground on whether or not they should forgive the person's because of the addiction.

    I'm rambling now with my written thinking out loud, but it's interesting to think about in a larger sense: How much blame do we place on people when we expect certain behavior? Maybe it's the usage of blame that is to blame (pun intended), used to instill a quest for perfection a la Christianity's sin. But if we take out blame, what would take its place in judging people's decisions? I suppose one could take a nihilist point of view and say we should never judge other people's behavior. Yet, it seems that nobody in the entire history of the world has ever practiced this in actuality, which once again brings us back to the point of how should we judge people's actions. If most of the world's population is greedy, for example, can we really blame someone for being greedy? Is that not denying our true selves, or is it an acknowledgement that we as a species should be striving for something and that blame can help push us in that direction?

    I'm still rambling, so I should probably clarify so that I'm not thought an asshole. The vast majority of people don't use a double standard (including the people here I think). I don't think addicts should be considered bad people, and I don't think random people should judge users if the user isn't affecting anyone else. I think it's good that programs designed to help alcoholics acknowledge that relapse can happen and that a relapse doesn't make them a bad person. I think it's good that some people are willing to forgive the actions of someone suffering through addiction; I also think there is no moral imperative that someone has to forgive the actions of someone suffering through addiction. My real question is more about the notion of blame in general. Since all actions by people are merely the product of external stimuli (nurture) and conditions present when the person is born (nature), can we ever blame anyone for anything? Ideally, I would say no. As a human being who strives for ideals only through the context of fulfilling the species' ideal and not some abstract ideal, I would say yes, and I have no idea where to draw the line.
     
  5. No-Name Slob

    No-Name Slob Member Supporter Contributor

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    So, I'm not going to say that you weren't rambling because you were. Lol. Or maybe I've had one too many mimosas to follow you (ironic, much?) but what I think you're saying is that it's a double standard not to hold addicts responsible for their actions, as opposed to people who just make shitty decisions, since in reality, it's the addicts decision to use and in turn make even worse decisions, yes?

    This is something I struggled with for a really long time. My dad was a raging alcoholic and I didn't even meet him until I was 13. I was really angry, and I felt like he used his addiction as a crutch to explain away all of his crappy behavior. I held a lot of resentment toward him for many, many years.

    It wasn't until my brother was going through his heroin addiction that I lightened up a little. He was a ghost of himself at the time. He should have been dead, and by all accounts, he was dead -- aside from the fact that his heart was technically still beating. He simply was not the person he once was. I let him live with me for a while and he stole from me, my husband, and even my 5 year old son's birthday money. That's not something he'd ever do, had he not been addicted to heroin. He's legitimately a good person.

    So I suppose the question you're really asking is -- is it possible for someone to be a bad person? Or are they just a string of poor decisions?

    There are some people who are downright rotten. Addictions don't make them that way, they simply are. Should addicts be responsible for the shitty decisions they made while they were addicted? Absolutely. In the same way that murderers should be responsible for their crimes. My brother went to prison for two years. He paid for his crimes and he deserved it whole heartedly. But he's not a bad person.

    Should people be judged based on their decisions? It depends. Everyone has some reason for acting out. I suppose it's a matter of whether or not their satisfied with making shitty decisions, or if they strive to become better.

    It's a weird philosophical question and I'm inclined to say that no one should be judged for their past, but people who are actively being awful? Sure. They absolutely should. But then I think about child molesters and such and think, fuck yeah they should be judged for their past. Is that a human reaction? Probably. But I'm human. I'm just as imperfect as my brother. My brother made a very brave decision that I've never had to make, though. So good on him.

    Anyway ... now I'm rambling ...
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
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  6. A J Phillips

    A J Phillips Active Member

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    Alcoholism is a true monster. I have struggled personally for about five years, and it is a very back and forth, rollercoaster of a process. Most hardcore alchies go in and out of rehab many times to no avail. Many times it can take a great personal tragedy for someone to be essentially 'scared straight'. Something near death, or a relationship coming so close to falling apart that the addict is forced to either get clean or potentially die or be alone and reclusive. This 'rock bottom' concept is what it truly takes for some addicts to get and stay clean. But relapse is a very common part of the recovery process, so giving the family a very fed-up outlook toward this character is what will i believe give it the believability for real addicts (who, believe it or not, can read!) to relate and share sympathy for her. hope this helps.
     
  7. spottydotty

    spottydotty New Member

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    check out erowid.com experience reports in the ethyl alcohol section under the heading "addiction and habitual use". there you will find plenty of stories of addiction first hand as well as use and addiction to every other illicit substance known to man in their database.
     

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