Gay Or Not Gay?

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by AmyWriter, Dec 22, 2015.

  1. Acanthophis

    Acanthophis ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Contributor

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    You did. By stating homosexuality should be left out unless it's relevant to the plot but not holding heterosexuality to the same standard.
     
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  2. Justin Rocket 2

    Justin Rocket 2 Contributor Contributor

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    I've said repeatedly that I hold heterosexuality to the same standard.
     
  3. Acanthophis

    Acanthophis ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Contributor

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    Not really. You take a superficial approach to the "abnormal" character traits but not to the "normal" ones. A gay character has to be justified, a straight character does not.

    "Oh my god, you're gay? Tell me every way this has impacted your life so you can stand out as much as possible to the reader!" - is what I read from you.

    If words don't actually mean what they mean, than I guess I agree with you.

    ---

    As a writer, I believe a character's sexuality can be as trivial as hair or eye colour.
     
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  4. Justin Rocket 2

    Justin Rocket 2 Contributor Contributor

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    That is not what I said.

    I said that traits should not be added unless they are meaningful to the story. Heterosexuality is a trait (so are eye color and hair color).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2016
  5. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    And that strategy will likely lead to either colorless, featureless, boring characters, or cluttered, wildly over-intricate plots.
     
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  6. A.M.P.

    A.M.P. People Buy My Books for the Bio Photo Contributor

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    You realize what you're saying right?
    Meaningful to the story would be like Harry Potter's birthmark as it's linked to the antagonist directly.
    Was it meaningful that Frodo Baggins was a Hobbit? Not really, it never really mattered what he was (though his race did play on prejudices and stuff but had nothing really to do with the main plot)

    So, from what you're saying, a gay character has somehow to have his sexuality directly tied to the main plot.
    Ergo, all gay characters belong in coming of age stories and LGTB romance novels.
    And heterosexuals, "the norm" can default out and be in any genre because there is either a romantic subplot or there is no need for sexuality to enter in.

    Might as well make them white, muscular, and super-manly since that's the "default" and we don't want to add "meaningless traits" that don't have to do with the story.
     
  7. Samuel Lighton

    Samuel Lighton Senior Member

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    To the both of you, I personally am not attacking you. I just feel that Justin's comments are not, in any way, helping the OP. Although I understand y our sentiment Justin, completely, I feel that given that you are openly homosexual you would be the authority on helping the OP with their issue. I myself advised that if they wish to inform the reader that their character is L/G/B/T then they should do so in a way that is constructive to the reader, perhaps personal strife, coming out to friends or parents, the result of which could be positive or negative and comes with it's own consequences. Consequence, is a great story telling tool and is sufficient enough to cause the reader's heart to skip a beat. Your comments, as I have read them, have not held content that is directly relevant to the OP's question, and instead are coloured with your own personal preference, as you would not simply introduce a character as 'gay for the sake of being gay'. This leads me to believe you could advise how to make that far more meaningful, don't you think so?


    NiallRoach, your response has literally been asked and responded to previously in this very same thread haha X)
     
  8. Justin Rocket 2

    Justin Rocket 2 Contributor Contributor

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    When the decision is between 1.) merely changing the character's orientation from hetero- to homo- while keeping the content of the character the same vs. 2.) changing the character's orientation in a meaningful way (exploring how it changes the content of the character), #2 will add more color, features, exciting characters, and well-developed plots every time.
     
  9. A.M.P.

    A.M.P. People Buy My Books for the Bio Photo Contributor

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    If there is no reason for the character to be gay or straight (like the murder mystery genre, unless there's romantic subplots/seduction) it adds nothing.
    No reason to be like "bee-tee-dubs, guyz, I'm a dude-lover" and then just not have that do anything character/narration wise.
    It doesn't have to part of the main story though or even important to the plot. It can be its own thing thats dealt or experienced throughout the narration.
     
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  10. Samuel Lighton

    Samuel Lighton Senior Member

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    Although I don't expect people to run through, what is now, 10 pages of forum posts, that has already been said and done with.

    In summation for the benefit of future posts:
    - If a character is announed as gay and nothing done with it, that is fair enough as it is like saying a character is blonde, or black, or has freckles. It's neutral in it's own right.
    -It can however be used as a tool in the plot, this can be offensive. Of course, this could be the point. It is as good of a tool as any in the writers arsenal.

    Conclusion:
    It doesn't matter how it's used. It's their story. We can help and guide, but to respond with what you have said comes as....belittling to the OP. Which is not fair when they have asked the community for a response. While it's not our duty or oath to help each other, I would like to think that if I were to ask a question I would get helpful content in response, or I would become quick to ignore these forums all together.

    EDIT: I understand I have responded like this in response to that one post, so I am in no way assuming that is the content of your character. Just in this case.
     
  11. A.M.P.

    A.M.P. People Buy My Books for the Bio Photo Contributor

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    @Samuel Lighton
    I said something offensive? o_O
     
  12. Justin Rocket 2

    Justin Rocket 2 Contributor Contributor

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    Yes, since the theme of that story had to do with how a simple, humble person could overcome through dogged persistence.

    One more time (perhaps I should put this in neon, blinking text?), a straight character, also, should have his orientation be meaningful to the story if his straight orientation is to be mentioned.

    And read that again, "meaningful to the story". Subplots contribute to the story (if they don't, then you've got two stories and a lack of focus, which is a flaw), so if a character's orientation is meaningful to a subplot, then it is meaningful to the story.
     
  13. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    Interesting that you're still talking about hetero as the default, despite denying repeatedly that you think that way.
     
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  14. A.M.P.

    A.M.P. People Buy My Books for the Bio Photo Contributor

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    Only Hobbits can be humble and simple?
     
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  15. Samuel Lighton

    Samuel Lighton Senior Member

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    Heh, take a look at the last 3 pages of posts, your argument in that post has gone around multiple times. I have said so far, that in looking at the direct and useful content in that post, you have said "don't use it for the sake of them being gay" but the OP hasn't asked whether they should make them gay, they're asking whether or not to tell the reader or not directly.
     
  16. A.M.P.

    A.M.P. People Buy My Books for the Bio Photo Contributor

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    Yeah, but I already answered her on page 1 :p
    Conversation is now veering elsewhere.
     
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  17. Justin Rocket 2

    Justin Rocket 2 Contributor Contributor

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    Tolkien stresses throughout his novels the humble, simple spirit of halflings and contrasts it quite sharply with the ethereal elves, ambitious humans, and belligerant dwarves
     
  18. Samuel Lighton

    Samuel Lighton Senior Member

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    Yeah but it's not so much veering as chewing on it's own tail at the minute :p To be honest, I understand it's different people coming into the conversation, but it just seems to be coming around again :|
     
  19. Justin Rocket 2

    Justin Rocket 2 Contributor Contributor

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    I already told you that I'm gay. I'm not hetero-centric. If you want to play some bullshit game where I have to apologize not for what I said or what I believe, but for some imagined slight (where you try to mind read me), I'm not going to play that game.
     
  20. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    This seems like a policy change on your part. Previously, I saw no hint that you would tolerate any trait that did not directly impact the main plot --and my impression was that you demanded that the trait not support substitution. (That is, if you mention blond hair, the plot must not support substituting red hair.)

    Please continue to clarify.
     
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  21. A.M.P.

    A.M.P. People Buy My Books for the Bio Photo Contributor

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    So, all other races are incapable of it as individuals?
     
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  22. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    1. I'm responding to the words in your posts. I'm not imagining them.

    2. Gay people are by no means immune from heteronormative attitudes, just like women aren't immune from internalised misogyny.
     
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  23. Justin Rocket 2

    Justin Rocket 2 Contributor Contributor

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    I have never said anything about substitution. I don't believe I ever said anything about directly affecting the main plot, either.
     
  24. Justin Rocket 2

    Justin Rocket 2 Contributor Contributor

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    If you were actually responding to the words in my posts, then you would be responding to the actual fact that I have repeatedly stated that I hold heterosexuality to the same standard
     
  25. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    ????
     
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