What's holding you back?

Discussion in 'Traditional Publishing' started by BayView, May 1, 2016.

  1. mrieder79

    mrieder79 Probably not a ground squirrel Contributor

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    I had morphine when I got bit by a viper. It made my head feel like it was going to explode. Did get rid of the pain, though.
     
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  2. BruceA

    BruceA Active Member

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    Never had morphine, but have had many other drugs (but never addicted to any, accept maybe alcohol). Never found they helped me write at all, but maybe because I used 'social' drugs - cocaine, alcohol, ecstasy, mushrooms etc. Alcohol was the worse of them all, for stopping me write (couldn't be arsed to write whilst drinking, felt too rough to drink for half the day to bother to write).

    To go back to the OP, I don't have a novel I am working on. I intend to write more short stories and try not to publish them all on here or on my blog, so I have some I can submit to magazines or save up to self publish a few in a 'novel-sized' book. I know people who write for a living (just about) and know how difficult it is even for those with an agent, and a publishing history, so I don't want to go down that road. I enjoy writing and enjoy getting feedback on my work, so am reasonably happy where I am. I do want to write (complete!) more stories that I don't publish straight away: keep them for a year or so and then revisit them (as I said to publish them as a collection, perhaps), but I do seem to have a need to have a deadline to finish stories (whether that be the short story competitions on here, or a submission deadline for a magazine). Those ideas I have for stories (or a series of stories), without an external deadline, just sit in my head, or on GoogleDrive as an incomplete tale. So I need to impose a deadline for myself, I guess. But as writing is a hobby for me (I only spend an hour or so doing it everyday) it isn't that important.
     
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  3. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    Poor technology. I cannot sit for hours on end. My eyes get tired of looking at a computer screen. And before and right after sleep (when I am not working) my mind is often tired.

    If we were able to transfer our thoughts directly from the brain to a word processor, via an advanced microchip implant, or even if we just had a transparent, e-ink, display screen visor, (this of course coupled with an electrical simulator that could keep my brain inspired and engaged, at will) I would already have about twelve completed novels.
     
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  4. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    I would have to say my writing is a lot like how I date. It seems bad in the beginning, great in the middle, and comes to a horrible conclusion. And this is all based on my own opinion. I lack the confidence in my work, and have made the claim more than once as being the worst writer here. :p I have even gone so far as to say my work flat out sucks, which is not good considering what I would like to see it achieve. I have learned a lot from many of you along the way (can't stop learning from anybody with more exp. than myself :) ). Having little to no feedback, and being generally unsure about what the hell I am doing, makes it a challenge. Couple that with the fact that I slack off on continuing to write on a sequel while the first half sits collecting dust in a document file, is not much motivation to want to get it out there. Frankly I don't think I have a shot in getting this bird off the ground. To be honest being a complete screw up, I might just find a bloody miracle in the hopelessness and despair. :)
     
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  5. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Well, you're in good company. Lots of famous writers started taking drugs to write. Some became addicts, some gave the drugs up after a few tries, and some took the drugs for other reasons, such as illness, and found the drugs affected the writing. (Not surprising, really.) Stevenson's Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde was written under the influence of several drugs, including ergot, which he took because of his illnesses.

    The results are very mixed. Some writers were able to produce brilliant writing while in a drugged state, while others who previously had produced excellent work began to deteriorate. Some were actually killed by drugs or ruined their health with them.

    Drugs are a very dangerous and dodgy way to call the muse, in my opinion. Not only because of health and financial issues, but also because the results can be very mixed and unpredictible. And once started, many writers found it difficult to stop.

    This is a list of a number of well-known authors who produced because of drugs (or in spite of drugs.) The list is probably much longer of writers or wannabe writers who never produced anything much because the drugs became the be-all and end-all of their lives and prevented progress. As one modern screenwriter said (he tried cocaine to help him meet deadlines), "You wake up in the morning, and realise everything you wrote the night before is just burbly bullshit, and now you're even MORE far behind than you were."

    Here's the list I got from the excellent book about writing habits of famous writers: Page Fright: Foibles and Fetishes of Famous Writers, by Harry Bruce.

    Some of these on the list may surprise you. Others won't.

    Coleridge, DeQuincey, Keats, Byron, Shelley, Dickens, Longfellow, Lewis Carroll, Elizabeth Barrett Browning - all took opium and/or laudanum (laudanum was considered a medicine during the 19th century, so it was acceptable for anybody to take it for medical conditions.)

    Sir Walter Scott (laudanum, in later life, when he was ill—he dictated Bride of Lammermuir under its influence, and when he stopped taking it, he didn't recognise the work as his own)

    Wilkie Collins - opium
    Robert Louis Stevenson - hash and opium (and ergot while writing Jekyll and Hyde)

    Jean-Paul Sartre - mescaline
    Phillip K Dick - amphetamines
    Graham Greene - benzedrine
    WH Auden - speed and barbituates
    William S Burroughs - all drugs
    Truman Capote - speed
    Tennessee Williams - speed
    Aldous Huxley - LSD
    Timothy Leary - LSD, mushrooms
    Allan Ginsberg - barbituates and hallucinogens
    Matt Cohen - cocaine
    Robert Creeley - LSD
    Charles Wright - peyote
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
  6. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Absolutely, this. Walking is the best way to 'think,' in my opinion, and it's one I used when coming up with ideas about my damn-near-ready novel. You've pointed out the very important thing, that it should be a place to walk where you don't have to think about where you're going, or worry about traffic, etc, because otherwise you can't let your mind roam freely. I'd also add, pick someplace where you're not going to run into people and have to speak, or say hi, or whatever.

    I use buses more these days, simply because walking from my house isn't much fun. Not only a potentially bum knee, but it's too full of traffic and people. I have discovered buses (which are free to old bats like me) work just as well.
     
  7. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I must admit the prospect of having to learn self-publishing is a bit daunting to me as well. I've read a lot about it, and to some extent am none the wiser. It's very complicated, especially when you get into sorting tax deals on both sides of The Pond, etc. One of the guys in my face-to-face writers' group is a self-published guy who actually sells well (both sides of The Pond) and he said he'd help. But I hate dumping on him, because he's busy with his own stuff. So I'm trying to get as much ready myself as I can do, before I say ...hey, I need help now.
     
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  8. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Is there a reason you don't have feedback? Have you given a completed MS to anybody to read for you? Make sure, if you do, that it's somebody who wants to read it, not somebody who has been frogmarched into the task.

    For you to read, I'd highly recommend the book I just listed in a previous post on this thread: Page Fright, by Harry Bruce. You'll be stunned at how many writer feel/felt about their work the same as you do. I think we have all occasionally reached the point where we say "What IS this crap I've been churning out?" Possibly you need an outside opinion on this issue.

    I'd volunteer to be a beta for you, but I really can't just now. I've just finished several beta projects, and realise I need to crack on with my own writing. But I imagine if you let it be known you're looking for somebody to read what you've written, somebody will come forward. Give them a clue what kind of story you're telling (and what genre it's in, if it's a genre book) and try to line up somebody who would normally choose that kind of story. Good feedback gets you energised and gives you confidence. Even if they spot problems, a good critique-giver should leave you with ideas about how to solve them.
     
  9. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    You've asked us all a very good question.
     
  10. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I wonder if you might progress with your writing if you stopped writing fantasy, and started writing something set in the real world instead? Maybe it's the need for constant world-building that makes it difficult for you to create plot.

    When you can build your story world any way you want, that in itself can become a problem. In a way, it's too much freedom, and you not only have to do what us non-fantasy writers do—create good characters and a plot that makes them work hard—but you also have to create their world from scratch as well. Adding in magic and superpowers just makes the whole thing even more complicated. How does it all work? How do supernatural elements mesh with the world you've created? You have to make it all make 'sense,' don't you. And that's before you chuck your characters into the mix.

    If you forced yourself to work within the constraints of the known world instead (either past or present) using no magic or paranormal stuff, then you might find it easier to create characters (which you are very good at) and create a story for them. You might start by going back into your WIP and removing ALL the supernatural stuff. See what you've got. Can you shift the characters and their difficulties into the real world? I think you can certainly keep your characters. It's just that what concerns them will be 'real,' and not fantasy.

    Not that there is anything wrong with fantasy or magic, but in your case, the burden of having to create all of that paranormal backstory stuff might actually be holding you back.
     
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  11. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    @jannert I have posted a beta swap in the collaborations section. I have sent a full .doc to 5-6, and got one persons perspective and advice on 75% of it. 2 basically took it and tossed it into the void. Another pair basically said nope after the first 10 pages. And the final person is in the process, cause they are kinda busy which I can understand. So it is not like no one ever has seen it. Just not making much headway. You are probably right that I should check out that book you mentioned, cause the minuscule amount of beginner material I have all seems to say: tough tits and hope you get lucky, and thanks for buying my book that is suppose to help you get started as an author. I am paraphrasing of course, but that is the skinny of it.

    Wanted it to be like some of my favorite books, but cutting all the dullness back so it doesn't fall into a valley of extra padding in the middle. Reread and fix things all the time, and the confusing part is after cutting 1000-1200 word chunks it managed to get longer. In the end it has been a fun and pain in the ass experience all rolled into one. Probably should just plod along on the other half of it, and tell myself that it isn't complete crap cause it needs to be read before it can be called crap.:p Possibly just chose the wrong genre to write in, IDK. :)
     
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  12. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Have you given yourself some time perspective on it? Maybe put it away and don't look at it for, say, another year. Then go back to it? I find a big long break can be very very helpful. You really do read your story differently after you've taken one.

    Was there any consistency to what the betas told you? Or a consistency in their response? If a fair number of them had trouble getting through the first 10 pages, perhaps your starting bits need some kind of revamp. Again, if you can't see what that revamp ought to be, you probably need distance.

    Keep in mind that even published stories—even classic or bestselling published stories—won't be universally loved. So don't expect all your betas to finish or to 'get' what you're doing.

    What makes you think you might be writing in the wrong genre, by the way? That's an interesting thing to say.
     
  13. Feo Takahari

    Feo Takahari Senior Member

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    My writing remixes and reimagines elements from things I've seen and read, and I've seen and read things from a lot of different places. Even when I can box it into a single genre, it often doesn't fit neatly into the subcategories niche publishers want, so I have to submit it to the publishers who have broad publication guidelines and will take anything within the genre. That means I'm competing with everyone else whose work could potentially go to those publishers, and I guess my work doesn't stand out among the heaps of manuscripts on publishers' desks. I'm not sure if I need to find a niche, or simply get better so I can draw more attention.
     
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  14. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Sounds like you're in that "out of my control" stage @LostThePlot was talking about. Frustrating, for sure.

    But it's interesting to see the different way you're thinking about it. It's not completely out of your control, because you can change what you're submitting and keep working toward figuring out what the publishers want. Still feels like banging your head against the wall, probably, but at least it's not a brick wall! If you harden your head and get the right angle, maybe you can break through!
     
  15. A man called Valance

    A man called Valance Senior Member

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    Apart from lack of determination, questionable ability and a reluctance to bang my own drum, nothing.
     
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  16. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributor Contributor

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    This:
    [​IMG]

    He's a real dickhead to me.:supergrin:
     
  17. LostThePlot

    LostThePlot Naysmith Contributor

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    I second this notion. Not to say that there is anything wrong with fantasy, just that it's substantially easier to 'pants' your story when it works by the exact same logic as the real world. Whenever you run into an issue you just have to look up 'how long is a flight from Dallas to Miami' and keep going; you don't have to go look at and think about any other elements. Just having your imagination grounded in a world that is extremely familiar you tend not to over-reach or over-imagine; you can just write your story as it comes to you and be confident that it'll make sense in it's own terms.
     
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  18. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    I've thought about writing romance instead - chick lits, you know :p I can be pretty funny I think but I often take myself far too seriously.

    I thought maybe what was holding me back re my WIP was also the fact that I built the world first, and then I had to write a story within that, and it just got harder and harder. I couldn't have X happen because I've determined that the world works like Y. But if X didn't happen then I don't know what else can because nothing else makes much sense. Or maybe WXY all happens and fits just fine into the world, then I come to Z and realise shit it doesn't work within the world. But Z is the only logical thing that can happen after WXY - so, what, now I gotta change/delete WXY too! That, or change the entire structure of the world and throw the entire alphabet to pot.

    Much of the story only makes sense if you understood the world, which itself is a weakness - I found time and again that none of the action can happen yet because I first need to introduce this that and the other about the world in order for the action to makes sense and hold tension. But a story that requires half a book of world-building before you can let the action happen is flawed - I couldn't find a way of doing that without boring the reader because, seriously, no one wants to read half a book of fictional concepts before being allowed to see the characters actually do something.

    Also, I'd like my story to touch my readers, to sink into them and stay with them. That means that at its heart it needs to be realistic - I mean the character's struggles, as well as the solutions to them. They have to be tangible and realistic. Like LOTR - the struggle to do good, the loss of simplicity and home, the value of true friendship. The solution was tangible - throw the ring into the fires of Mount Doom. But in my own WIP, what I have is a whole bunch of fantastical concepts, all of which you must understand and agree with, and then the solution is another huge fantastical concept that you have to make sense of within what you know of the rest of these magical concepts. I'm not saying it can't work, but somehow I feel that isn't quite right. It isn't simple enough - it isn't tangible enough. If I told you a loromir died in the Black Forest because the fayerell disappeared - you'd be like... o_O But if I told you a baby girl died in the night in her crib because her face pressed into a stuffed toy by accident - you feel a pang, because you understand it. It is simple, poignant. It needs no explanation.

    What I should have done is simply go back to earth (haha) and think of the plot first. Forget the world for the moment. Plan out the series of events that need to happen, and then design the world around that. Because designing the world around it is easier, I think, especially when the events are logical and would already make sense.

    My middles were often saggy because I had no concept of what a subplot is. I had no subplots, in fact. Now I know a subplot is like a mini story that feeds into the main plot - the development of the subplot should further the main plot in some way. They have different but related goals.

    So, with that knowledge, I think this time if I planned and wrote, maybe it'll work. Only I don't know... I can't be bothered anymore... The planning is hard, and boring :bigfrown: but I'm sick and tired of deleting tens of thousands of words, lobbing off entire chapters after several months of work, realising it was all wasted. Yes of course my writing skill improves thanks to this, but it's still wasted in as much as my novel is still nowhere near being finished.
     
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  19. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I remember that you have an incredible talent for creating rather prickly characters whom the reader not only can identify with, but also really really like. And coupled with that is your ability to describe real beauty of surroundings using words that are instantly evocative and create very graphic pictures in the mind as we read. These two talents can easily be transposed to the real world. You don't have to write chick lit. You can write a serious story. I suspect a serious story is what you want to write. Don't sell yourself short by just writing fluff.

    I think that creating plot first is probably not going to help, really. You create a plot using fantasy elements, then you have to make them make sense. And maybe they won't. You'll end up with plot holes the size of the Grand Canyon. I really think you might sharpen your construction skills by choosing to set your story in the real world ...again, either past or present ...and leave out magic. Pick a period of history that interests you, in a country that also interests you, and try that. Writing a story set in the past is almost like fantasy, oddly enough.

    I mean, you're a Chinese person living in the Czech republic. Maybe you could write a story about Chinese people living, say, 300 years ago. Maybe even living in the Czech republic 300 years ago. It would be easy to research the period, but it would almost be like writing fantasy. The past is a world you've never seen or lived in. But there are rules that can't be broken. People only live a certain lifespan. Planes haven't been invented, so people can't fly and be instantly in another place. Travel from China to the Czech republic's terrain would take years. There are no photographs, so people might well forget what people look like, if many years go by since they were last together. Etc. However, you won't need to worry about how the underworld meshes with the upper world, or why somebody with infinite magical abilities can't control the kinds of things that would make it easy for them to accomplish their goals, etc.

    You're good at creating characters who get stuck with the burden of caring for others, or even 'saving' others. You can still do that in the real world.
     
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  20. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    I've considered fantasy stories without magic - so made-up world but otherwise with realistic elements, like Game of Thrones. I've also considered a real-world setting with one or two magical elements, say for example when I read a chick lit that was set in the real world, and everything was realistic except that the MC could see and talk to the ghost of her great-grandmother, who "haunts" her in the form of her 20-year-old self :p

    I do have 3 stories in this kinda vein:

    1. Rune and Sky, the story set in a made-up world but is otherwise basically a royal intrigue story. (Rune and Sky are the names of the brothers) At its heart it's about the estrangement and reconciliation of two brothers who once loved each other very deeply.

    2. A spin-off of Soren, set in a different dytsopian world, but everything works as in the real world - this is a thriller about the kidnapping of his sister Megan and a political revolution.

    3. A quaint romance, about a teenage girl struggling to come to terms with her mother's latest boyfriend (who turns out to be a wonderful guy this time) and in the midst of this, falls in love with a boy from the water - a merman, basically :) In this case it's one fantastical element set in an otherwise realistic world.

    I just need to be told what to write. That's why the collab went so well - Sonya came up with most of the plot and events and I just agreed and wrote it. It was awesome fun :D but as you've said, it was lacking the depth and weight I like in my own solo work.

    Chinese girl in the Czech Republic huh. It could be a romance. Not chick lit necessarily. A traveller looking for home :) this might become a little too much like a memoir though if I went down this route :D
     
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  21. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    Don't let people here know there are actually some writers that have trouble coming up with ideas.We're going to see a lot of puffed up chests...
     
  22. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    I can live with that.
     
  23. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    You have the same problem?

    Yeah, writing isn't hard. It's knowing what to write!! :confuzled:
     
  24. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    My only problem is low technology...

    I was referring to all the people who come on WF and brag about their one million dollar ideas
     
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  25. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    It's all right. If they can't write, they're as stuck as I am :supergrin:Am I evil? :supercheeky:
     
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