The art of the story

Discussion in 'General Writing' started by ScaryPen, Oct 9, 2007.

  1. Sack-a-Doo!

    Sack-a-Doo! Contributor Contributor

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    A mixture of the two, style & story, is what keeps me glued to a novel. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened much—if at all—since Michael Crichton died. It's that mix that I aim for. You could say that Crichton inspires/d me to excel.
     
  2. Lifeline

    Lifeline South. Supporter Contributor

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    Characters. Vote seems to be nearly unanimous up to now :D

    Style is certainly ONE factor I use in determining if I come back to read other works of the author, but recently I've found that style doesn't matter at all. I'll even overlook blatant SPAGs and bad-writing if the characters and the story is convincing enough.
     
  3. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I'd have to go with that too, but assuming the characters are equally appealing, I think it depends on what you're looking for. I don't read Stephen King or Tom Clancy (or even Hemingway) because I'm interested in the prose. That's all about story. And I don't read Cormac McCarthy, Gabriel Garcia Marquez or Faulkner for the story. I read them because the prose rips my brain apart. It kind of depends on my mood and how much mental real estate I feel like using. There's the old rubric on how commercial fiction is story based, upmarket is character based, literary fiction is prose based, and the fans of each style are more likely to forgive a dearth of the opposing foci. Not everything fits cleanly in there, but you get the idea. Still, if the characters suck, it doesn't really matter what you do.

    I'd add a third category to this story vs. style debate. Call it "world build fiction" or something. Those are the books (often speculative) that are neither story, prose, or even character based sometimes. China Mievelle is a great example of this. He is an excellent writer, like first ballot hall of fame excellent, but his work is almost entirely based on the worlds he creates. He's admitted to as much. He starts with a world and develops that before he does anything. The characters and story are almost afterthoughts. They only serve as surrogates of his world. They do not drive the plot. The plot drives them. This is really, really difficult to pull off, which is why so many speculative books are unreadable in my opinion, but some readers are all about the gadgets, monsters, magic, etc...
     
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  4. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    And I haven't yet enjoyed China Mieville for just that reason - his stories feel like intellectual exercises to me, not living, breathing stories.
     
  5. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    No doubt. Fascinating dude. Very sharp. Very cerebral. He even started a communist party in London. I hear what you're saying. He's the only one I can tolerate in that style. Check out The City and the City by him if you are inclined. It's an old school European detective story with a mind blowing premise. More of a head-slapper than a head-scratcher, if that makes any sense.
     
  6. Rani99

    Rani99 Member

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    Characters and story, but never writing style. Sometimes I want to keep reading because I like the style, but I can't if it has a boring story/characters.
     
  7. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    Characters and story. Though I have had the pleasure of reading something that managed
    to totally ruin all three: Characters, story, and style. Must admit it was one that had me
    shaking my head wondering how something so awful could have such a large fanbase?
    Safe to say I would only recommend reading such things, as an example of who not
    to emulate.

    On the other hand have you read anything that is fun to read, but the author feels
    like they are detached from their writing? I have and it is weird.
     
  8. OJB

    OJB A Mean Old Man Contributor

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    I am going to post my personal view on style, which might be a bit different from most peoples:

    Style, in my opinion, is the sum total parts of your writing. Do you use simple sentences or complex sentences? Do you use Musical devices, figures of speech, meter, irony, foreshadowing, dreamlike-imagery, allusions, symbolism, and allegories? Do you put in layer after layer of subtext and theme into your work? What are the Tone, Voice, and Diction choice of your work? Narrative-mode? Do you write in MRUs? Or something else? Do you use Scene and Sequel? How do you manipulate the 3-Act story structure? Are your Themes, Characters, and plots deep? Or just simply entertainment? I truly believe it is all these things COMBINED that show a person's style, not just a sentence or two they write down. Of corse, I could be wrong, and often I am.

    -

    So to answer your question: Having a story that is emotionally engaging, thought provoking, and has a solid plot is a STYLE.
     
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  9. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    Story. I prefer straightforward, down to earth writing with as little gild on the lilly as possible. To be fair though, I don't read fine literature, fantasy or sci-fi, where I imagine writing style might carry a bit more weight.
     
  10. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    I've noticed that as long as there's one thing that hooks me, I don't care much what it is: plot, character, setting, theme, wordsmithery...

    HP Lovecraft's linguistic skills were inconsistent, his characters were flat, and I despised his message of closing off one's horizons instead of trying to expand, but I loved his setting, and I loved many of the plots that he set in it.

    George RR Martin's sentences in A Game of Thrones were even worse than HP Lovecraft's, the fundamental "seasons last for years" foundation of his worldbuilding was awkward for me to get used to, and the themes of his most graphic scenes felt more "exploitation" than "horror," but not only was the plot fantastic, but the characters were also a lot more vivid and compelling.

    I haven't touched Tim LaHaye's and Jerry B. Jenkins' Left Behind: The Kids spin-off series since I was a kid myself, so I don't remember how well the sentences were written. I do remember that the plots were embarrassing and the "conservative Christian fundamentalism is more important than truth and morality" theme horrified me as a Christian, but the characters were compelling enough (except for the "God" the authors came up with) to make me finish, and the changes the authors made to Biblical prophecies and teachings made for an interesting setting at least.

    ... When I started this list, I'd thought that by now I'd have a work to talk about where the writing and the theme were better than the plot, character, and setting.

    Maybe those two are the least important to me.
     
  11. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Worst writer ever. Great storyteller. Really, really great storyteller. But. Worst. Writer. Ever.
     
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  12. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    So much.

    I was expecting the opposite – a bad story written very very well – but ended with me knowing that the second story would be at least as amazing, but that I didn't think I could force myself to read it.

    I still haven't.
     
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  13. exweedfarmer

    exweedfarmer Banned Contributor

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    I put fiction into two categories, boring and not boring. The individual (I stand corrected below) reader's reaction is not predictable. Maybe they can relate to the character and maybe they can't. Maybe they can relate to the plot and maybe they can't. Many, many people can't relate to my rather tongue-in-cheek style for example. Others object to my subject matter. A reviewer on this board commented that certain situations in my info dump "pushed his buttons," because it assumed a future event that his idea of possible reality could not accept. Who'd a thunk it? I think we should do the best we can in all areas. This coming from someone who can't get anyone to read his stuff.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2017
  14. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    So it sounds to me like the reader's reaction is predictable - you can predict that a significant number of readers aren't going to want to read your work as written.

    I'm not suggesting you change your style or subject matter, but I do think you're being a bit fatalistic with the "no one can predict" idea. Lots of people can predict what will please readers, at least to some extent. Whether they're able to produce it is another factor, and whether they're willing to produce it is quite another. But it's not some random crap shoot.
     
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  15. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    It can be both or either. It depends.

    Samuel R. Delany. Master Wordsmith. (genuflect now) He has both. You almost have to learn a new language to really get into his work, but once you grok it, his stories are, at their core, character driven.

    As some have already mentioned, Miéville's work is certainly stylized and it's damned clear he has a thing he wants to say with most of his work. The City and the City, is a holotype for him. He takes a completely improbable premiss and uses it to talk about the very real way in which culture trains us to let our eyes go unfocused as we pass over things we're not meant to see or that we don't want to see. In this case, seeing is both literal and figurative. Embassytown: A syntactic revolution and language as a drug. The supreme goal for the Ariekei is to learn to lie (which, btw, is the holy grail in primatology as regards proving human-like Theory of Mind). That story left me dizzy in a good way for months. I read Miéville for surface story and deep story and I love that he's a master wordsmith.

    Jeff Vandemeer also gave me surface and very, very deep story with his Southern Reach trilogy and those stories are supremely character driven.

    Octavia Butler has a much more pragmatic approach to wordsmithing. She speaks plainly and doesn't go in for airs. Her work delivers through the characters, and she most definitely delivers.

    So, my answer to your question is: characters, story, style; smoke it, snort it, or bang it, they can all get you high. I care less about how I get high, and more about the buzz that results at the end.
     
  16. Fernando.C

    Fernando.C Contributor Contributor

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    For me it's a combination of all the elements, the characters, the story, the style and sometimes - especially in fantasy and SciFi - even the setting and the whole world building aspect.

    It's the successful implementation of all the above elements that makes for a great story. well-written and layered characters won't hold my interest for long if there's not an equally strong and well written story and plot to back them up. On the other hand, a well-written and well-crafted story experienced through the eyes of one-dimensional, uninteresting characters won't keep me engaged for long either.

    Style, is somewhat different. For me style isn't as important an element as the rest. A straightforward and simple prose works perfectly fine for me so long as there are strong, deep and interesting characters and story/plot(s) to support it. That said a beautifully-written story, with unique - and sometimes - sentence structures and word choices and all the other stuff that inform the style, if done well can do a lot to enhance the story and the engagement of the reader with it. But that only works - at least for me - if the character and story is there too.

    One can liken a well-crafted prose to a beautiful painting. Pleasing to look at, but if it doesn't have much depth to it, it won't hold your attention or interest for long.
     
  17. Masked Mole

    Masked Mole Senior Member

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    I think it's more writing style than story. If it's a professional writer, I assume the story's going to be somewhat absorbing. But if they describe the wrong things, pace it poorly, or write lame dialogue I'm out.
     
  18. xanadu

    xanadu Contributor Contributor

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    I'd say I care more about story and characters than style. I can tolerate less-than-great style as long as the characters and story are good (to a decent extent), but I don't think I can say the same in reverse. Although, if either falls below my tolerance, I'm out.
     
  19. Senko

    Senko Member

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    Thank you all for all your comments. It's always interesting to know what other readers think about what make them keep reading.
    And, I must say I'm kind of surprised about the results. But I can sense how important is the role of characters in a story.

    I hadn't looked to it that way, maybe because I am not used to separate the role of characters from the story itself. Maybe I tend to consider that rich and likeable characters, with all that makes them what they are, is also part of the story.

    But you are right. And it's not difficult to agree with that. In many cases, characters are what makes many people keep reading.
     
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  20. newjerseyrunner

    newjerseyrunner Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    Depends on the book. Stephen King is a great story teller, but his writing style is pretty generic, so I read the story in basically my own inner voice. Carl Sagan had a very unique writing style, and when I read anything by him, the narration in my head is in his voice using his inflections.

    It also depends on whether or not I've read it before. If I've read the book a thousand times, I probably don't even see most of the words and therefore the writing style would be lost on me. This obviously doesn't apply to stories that have a very different style than what I'm used to (Huck Finn comes to mind.)
     
  21. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Dear Lord, that's the truth. Now I'm hearing his voice everywhere!
     
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  22. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

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    I can read a plain style but it really needs a good plot for me to remember the story. V.C. Andrews has a decent mediocre writing style but her pulpy plots were the real stars - for me that's why her stories were memorable and why the ghost writer who took over couldn't compare. He just didn't have her pulpy flare. If the style is brilliant but the story takes too long to get off the ground than for me style doesn't matter one iota. I can finish a junk romance easier than a stylish novel because stylish writers never seem to lower themselves to put in enough suspense to lure the reader to keep reading. But when they do - they are awesome. So style is major important for me but never to the sacrifice of pace or story. And the big difference between style versus adequate writing is that I'll remember the stylish novel a helluva lot easier than a mediocre-written story. They need a dynamite plot or I'll just forget them and the writer. I've read tons of romances & horrors and only remembered a handful of them. The ones whose style or plot stood out. But the ones that are stylish and well plotted not only do I remember them but I remember the author - Kathe Koja, Vladimir Nabokov, Lygia Fagundes Telles etc.
     
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  23. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    For me, 'good' style is like good driving. You don't notice it. You get too caught up in the scenery or the story.
     
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  24. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    What if you enjoy driving ;)
     
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  25. Arcadeus

    Arcadeus Senior Member

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    Writing Style if I think about it.
    The reason I can't read certain books and fall in love with others is not because the character isn't interesting, or is super awesome. It's usually the pacing/foreshadowing/pressure building techniques that keep me reading.
     

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