Awkward question :/

[arron89]

I still disagree, though I understand where you're coming from...writing a sex scene is no different to writing any other part of your novel, so you should treat it as such. If you change your writing style in a sex scene, you're going to call even more attention to it. So if up until that point yu've been raw and realistic, that's ow you shuld treat the sex scene. If until that point you've been wry or humourous, that's how you should treat the sex scene. If its supposed to be romantic, write it that way; if its supposed to be intense write it that way. Pretending that all sex is nice and romantic is a little naive, as is writing all sex as though it is. As far as I'm concerned, the only wrong way to write a sex scene is writing it differently to how you would writ eanything else.

Edit: also, the idea that if you are graphically describing the act then you are writing porn is ridiculous. Assume a little maturity on the part of your readers and trust that they can distinguish between a realistic, honest description of sex and pornography. Obviously not all sex scenes will call for all the details, but if the scene should be written in explicit detail, then there's no reason not to include it.

[Wreybies]

Originally Posted by arron89

Edit: also, the idea that if you are graphically describing the act then you are writing porn is ridiculous. Assume a little maturity on the part of your readers and trust that they can distinguish between a realistic, honest description of sex and pornography. Obviously not all sex scenes will call for all the details, but if the scene should be written in explicit detail, then there's no reason not to include it.

I have to agree with aaron89 here. The lines between sexy, erotic, and pornographic are as varied as the people who might give you an opinion on the subject.

To the OP: This forum is a rather youngish web forum, the members are likely to have more conservative views on the subject. There are, without a doubt, many web forums devoted to the craft of writing both the tenderly entrancing, the straight up hard core, and all steamy points in between. I would have a gander at these forums for ideas on the subject if I were you. In these forums, the members are, by definition, going to have an open mind about the writing of sex.

If you happen across a member at any of these forums by the name Wreybies, say hello! I'm Wreybies everywhere I go.

[Irish87]

Admittedly, I have a very open mind... mostly 'cause I'm gay. If I hadn't an open mind, life would kind of suck. I do agree with Wreybies though, that and I find his name ADORABLE.

[Wreybies]

Originally Posted by Irish87

Admittedly, I have a very open mind... mostly 'cause I'm gay. If I hadn't an open mind, life would kind of suck. I do agree with Wreybies though, that and I find his name ADORABLE.

Had to make sure it matched the rest of me.

[Cogito]

Anyway, this is getting off track. Whether a sex scene is high-def explicit or not, if the writer is not experienced in that aspect of life, the nuances are not going to come across convincingly, particularly the emotional aspects.

Don't think you can learn enough about this area of behavior from just reading a lot, either. Normally I am in favor of learning that way, but so much of what has been written is ludicrous, and a lot of the better writing still won't mean much if you haven't been there. You'll see what is going on, but you'll miss what is important.

And don't just run off andf get experienced so you can complete the writing. It takes the perspective of looking back and seeing how it has changed you, and it takes time to see yourself clearly enough.

You might feel pressure to put in the sex scene. You might feel you aren't a writer until you can write sex scenes. Many fine novels have been written with no sex scenes, or with only discrete allusions to sexual encounters. Stick to those for now. Don;t let anyone, including yourself, pressure you into jamming a sex scene you aren't ready to write into your story. Don't let yielding to that pressure ruin a good story.

[MarchOfMephisto]

Originally Posted by Cogito

The thing is, the physical act is not what you should be writing about. It's the feelings that the characters have about it, and how it affects them, that matter. Tje private awkwardnesses, the intimacy, the little betrayals. even the humiliations that enter into it,that contribute to the story.

Thanks. Mentioning those particular feelings have helped me, I don't know what sort of thoughts run through people's heads or what they feel, but those have given me some idea.

Originally Posted by arron89

I have to disagree a little bit...while certainly the emtional side of sex is important, I don't think its worth neglecting the physical act over. The rules of showing and telling apply just as much here as they do anywhere else in your writing, and its generally the way that the physical act is described tha is most rvelatory about the scene, the characters, and the writer,not the descriptions of the things that go along with it. Compare, for instance, the sex scenes of Anais Nin, Bret Easton Ellis and Vladimir Nabokov...they all remain focussed almost solely on the physical act and yet the emotons and associations that are drawn fom their descriptions by the reader are markedly different.
So I agree insofar as that you need to be aware of the emotinal performances of your characters during sex, but the physical act and your description of it should be the main focus of the writing.

I want to make sure I have a nice balance of both, not end up with too much emotion that it drowns out what they're actually doing and not end up with so much physical it seems crude.
It seems as though everyone has different ideas of what seems too much.

Originally Posted by Phantasmal Reality

First of all, I don't believe you have to necessarily write what you know, as long as you can write it well enough that your readers won't be able to tell. How many of us have written a scene in which a character has been killed in front of another? How many of us have actually witnessed something like that? Or seen aliens? Or encountered a unicorn? Point is, we can still write about all those things and try our best to make it legit. It's a little different when it comes to something that a good portion of your readers probably have experienced, but you can still compensate.

For instance, you're doing the right thing by asking people for their own experiences. If you can get someone to tell you about sex in the level of detail that you need, good, but remember that sex is going to be different for everyone. You can also gain a little insight by watching love scenes from movies or something, but remember that these are often romanticized, and account for that if you plan to go into a lot of detail about sex between real people. As for porn, it'll only help you grasp the physics of it. Average men don't have... "parts" that big, most women don't go full Brazilian, and the element of love and respect is missing, which is critical if you're trying to write a real sex scene.

Tying into that, I think the biggest thing your story has to gain by including a fairly-graphic sex scene is the illustration of two people's love for each other. Someone was saying that it's the feelings that the characters have about sex and how it affects them that matters, and I agree with that, but I think there's an element of love that can only be captured by the physical expression of it. If you feel it's vital that you capture that essence, I say include a well-done sex scene filled with more than just bestial passion, otherwise I would say just avoid it. If you do write it, avoid cliches, avoid clinical language, avoid awkward similies and metaphors, and avoid keeping the final product if people who know what they're talking about tell you that you didn't do it justice. A bad sex scene will hurt any story way more than no sex scene.

Good luck!

Would it be considered rude if I did a survey or something? I go to a college, and many of the people there have done it, and I know some would be willing to talk about it. Even if I did a heterosexual person, at least I'd get some ideas of the feelings behind it, right?

Originally Posted by Cogito

It's no accident that the term intercourse also means a conversation. Sex scenes are like dialogue. What isn't said is often (usually?) more important than what is written.

The explicit depiction of the sex act is rarely relevant or revealing. It's naught but prurient voyeurism most of the time.

WARNING: SOME EXPLICIT LANGUAGE FOLLOWS.

I'm not saying details are unimportant. A hand cupped over a breast as they lay together afterward can convey intimacy and comfort with each other. The same can be conveyed by him falling out of her when she laughs afterward while they are talking. Pumping and humping and grunting only reveals more interest BY THE AUTHOR in tha act than in the actors.

Unless you're writing a how-to book, there is no need to give every detail of tab A goes into slot B, and what gets nailed or screwed or banged.

Focus on the characters, not the plumbing. That's my opinion, and I'll stand by it.

That's a good way of putting it.

Originally Posted by B-Gas

If you're writing anything else, it's way more important to know what they're feeling and why they're doing what they're doing.

This couple are definately the best couple I have ever created. I have actually managed to get across just how much they care about each other, even my test reader said she can see how much they love each other.

Originally Posted by Irish87

As for what I said earlier about masking it, I meant if you were not fully convinced you could accurately detail, whether emotionally or physically, sex between two men that you may want to consider describing it as something else and alluding to the act. You're masking the event with another. It's kind of a cheap way to get through it, though. Either way, good luck.

Hmmm...I'll have to have a go at that. Still not entirely sure what you mean though.

Originally Posted by Phantasmal Reality

I concur with avoiding any "tab A goes into slot B" language, as there really isn't any feeling behind that. I think the real meat of the emotion in a sex scene is more in the before and after, which is why most stories can pretty effectively skip over the graphic stuff without losing anything, but sometimes the in-between can be important too. Even then, less can definitely be more. Allusions for the win. ^_^

In this particular story, I switch viewpoints between the five main characters (these guys being two of them) but still remain in third person. Could I do the beginning and then switch, leaving the reader to imagine what happened? Or would that ruin the whole effect?

Originally Posted by arron89

Pretending that all sex is nice and romantic is a little naive, as is writing all sex as though it is. As far as I'm concerned, the only wrong way to write a sex scene is writing it differently to how you would writ eanything else.

Edit: also, the idea that if you are graphically describing the act then you are writing porn is ridiculous. Assume a little maturity on the part of your readers and trust that they can distinguish between a realistic, honest description of sex and pornography. Obviously not all sex scenes will call for all the details, but if the scene should be written in explicit detail, then there's no reason not to include it.

That's another reason I'm asking for advice. I know that sex isn't all "flowers and romance" and I don't want to influence my readers into thinking that it is. I do want a little romance, but I think that might come across through their feelings and thoughts.

Originally Posted by Wreybies

I have to agree with aaron89 here. The lines between sexy, erotic, and pornographic are as varied as the people who might give you an opinion on the subject.

To the OP: This forum is a rather youngish web forum, the members are likely to have more conservative views on the subject. There are, without a doubt, many web forums devoted to the craft of writing both the tenderly entrancing, the straight up hard core, and all steamy points in between. I would have a gander at these forums for ideas on the subject if I were you. In these forums, the members are, by definition, going to have an open mind about the writing of sex.

If you happen across a member at any of these forums by the name Wreybies, say hello! I'm Wreybies everywhere I go.

Do you have any recommendations? I'll have to have a look around

Originally Posted by Irish87

Admittedly, I have a very open mind... mostly 'cause I'm gay. If I hadn't an open mind, life would kind of suck. I do agree with Wreybies though, that and I find his name ADORABLE.

If my mind was any open, my brain would fall out. Someone actually said that to me once LOL.
And the bit I highlighted made me laugh ^^

Originally Posted by Cogito

Anyway, this is getting off track. Whether a sex scene is high-def explicit or not, if the writer is not experienced in that aspect of life, the nuances are not going to come across convincingly, particularly the emotional aspects.

Don't think you can learn enough about this area of behavior from just reading a lot, either. Normally I am in favor of learning that way, but so much of what has been written is ludicrous, and a lot of the better writing still won't mean much if you haven't been there. You'll see what is going on, but you'll miss what is important.

And don't just run off andf get experienced so you can complete the writing. It takes the perspective of looking back and seeing how it has changed you, and it takes time to see yourself clearly enough.

You might feel pressure to put in the sex scene. You might feel you aren't a writer until you can write sex scenes. Many fine novels have been written with no sex scenes, or with only discrete allusions to sexual encounters. Stick to those for now. Don;t let anyone, including yourself, pressure you into jamming a sex scene you aren't ready to write into your story. Don't let yielding to that pressure ruin a good story.

Thanks for the advice
Also, I have read some books which include sex scenes, but I didn't particularly like them ones. They were very descriptive and it just didn't match the rest of the book and it seemed kind of out of place. I didn't want to do that and make my reader feel awkward.

[Kirvee]

Personally, I don't mind sex scenes.

Virtually all of my favorite author's (Dennis L. McKiernnan) fantasy books have at least several sex scenes throughout the story. However, I like the way he writes the scenes. He never gets too descriptive. He always uses very vague terms where you can just barely imagine what's happening but not be too focused on it. And as I recall, he also incorporates the feelings into them.

Typically, since his stories tend to include more than one, the first sex scene is usually the one that gets the vague detail. Any others that occur in the story he sums up very quickly with the words "and then they made sweet love." (or something along those lines) and then its done. I like that way of writing sex scenes, so maybe you could use that as a model...although, all the books I've read by him have involved straight couples.

Additionally, the second book of the Guardian of Honor series called Sorceress of Fate includes a sex scene but I read that book such a long time ago that I don't remember how graphic or not it was, but I remember it was there. It also involved a straight couple (although the book mentioned same-sex couples at least once).

I can't offer you much advice since I'm still young, a virgin, and only have what I've learned since I was 11 to use, but all the stuff I know pertains to the anime/manga fandom. And I read somewhere that most yaoi couples aren't accurate depictions of real gay couples (although I have lots of reasons to believe that the main couple in Nabari no Ou come pretty damn close to realistic).

The most I can tell you is just to find a gay person who has done it at least once and ask them to tell you about it. It might be the most awkward conversation you could ever have with a person, but anything for the sake of research, right?