typical American or typically American

[ohmyrichard]

Originally Posted by ManhattanMss

If you want a discussion about grammar and English, buckle up for a bumpy ride.

I love this last sentence of your post as it best describes our discussion or we may call it a quarrel over this typical/typically issue. To tell you the truth, I never expected the ride would be this bumy when I started the thread, asking those questions. Perhaps there are many things in English and about English nonnative speakers can never aspire to understand thoroughly however hard he or she tries, though these things may be seemingly easy to understand.
I have been riding on a galloping horse along a bumpy road. Although, to be frank, I find it still very hard to think your way of differentiating "a typical American+noun" from "a typically American +noun", I have learned a lot from this discussion. Now I have realized that most of you have been studying this issue from an academic perspective while I have been trying to get a clear-cut answer to something to which no one, who is serious about language use, can give a simple answer.
I am sorry to have given you all so much trouble. And I will read all the posts carefully all over again and spend some time think over this issue.
Thanks for your patience with me.

[ManhattanMss]

Originally Posted by ohmyrichard

I love this last sentence of your post as it best describes our discussion or we may call it a quarrel over this typical/typically issue. To tell you the truth, I never expected the ride would be this bumy when I started the thread, asking those questions. Perhaps there are many things in English and about English nonnative speakers can never aspire to understand thoroughly however hard he or she tries, though these things may be seemingly easy to understand.
I have been riding on a galloping horse along a bumpy road. Although, to be frank, I find it still very hard to think your way of differentiating "a typical American+noun" from "a typically American +noun", I have learned a lot from this discussion. Now I have realized that most of you have been studying this issue from an academic perspective while I have been trying to get a clear-cut answer to something to which no one, who is serious about language use, can give a simple answer.
I am sorry to have given you all so much trouble. And I will read all the posts carefully all over again and spend some time think over this issue.
Thanks for your patience with me.

Given the determination you seem to have to sort out how grammar relates to meaning, I'm sure you'll get used to the bumpy ride. Don't think for a minute that it's only those learning English as a second language who find the ride challenging. We're all in that saddle. The English language is full of grammatical and structural opportunities to be extremely precise about very particular nuances (especially so in writing, where punctuation plays an important part, too). Rather than being restrictive to meaning (as folks sometimes seem to think), the precision of English grammar is largely responsible for allowing readers to understand our ideas in the way we intend. Although serious writers will "typically" () use some accepted resource to validate the choices they make, most of us still fall short of the excellence we shoot for. Most publishable writers eventually come to rely on (hopefully both) intelligent and insightful editors for help. And even they will have differences of opinion. After all, many fine authors acknowledge the contribution their editors have made--and probably with good reason.

[thewordsmith]

Richard, you are dealing with a few misconceptions and/or misunderstandings of the phrase.

First, to address the "typical American" vs. "typically American" dilemma. Both are correct, depending upon the context. "Typical American" suggests that the person in question is an American and he or she behaves just as the speaker would expect all Americans to behave, therefor, he is typical of Americans and a "typical American". This could be considered a pejorative comment in most contexts. "Typically American" on the other hand, suggests something that calls to mind things American - baseball, hot dogs, and apple pie for example. Sandlot baseball is a typical American pasttime, ergo, it could be considered typically American. In general, the French, tend to consider Americans rude and base, so any American who may chance to venture into France and behaves boorishly would be considered to be behaving in a typically American fashion. The fine French folks would also consider the yank a typical American, since they believe all Americans behave in a similar manner. (Generally, the two concepts tend to overlap because the 'typical' American would pursue things and behave in a manner which is 'typically' American.)

Now, as to the grapes in question: The phrase 'smoothly skinned', smoothly being adverbial form of smooth, turns skinned into a past tense verb. 'Smoothly' serves to described HOW the grape was skinned, that is, how the skin was removed from the grape. So, in one hand, you have a grape with a smooth skin. In the other hand, you have a grape with no skin but not a nick or flaw anywhere on the surface of the juicy, exposed inner fruit. And, if I had another hand, it would be holding the by-product of such a delightful fruit. (And, does that make my Gewertztraminer fruit juice?)

So, when you break it down to the basics, 'smoothly', when in the company of a verb, is still an adverb.xper

[Atari]

Originally Posted by dgraham

To ohmyrichard: I would suggest that you ignore Kas' suggestion that "way of thinking" "isn't a real noun". I don't see anything wrong with his advice in terms of it being a matter of personal preference, but the phrase is grammatically correct and I don't want you to think that you're making a mistake when you aren't.

I agree with Kas about reading lots, and you're a very good 2nd language speaker of English. He is also right about the difference between grammaticality and eloquence. As far as I can tell, he finds the sentence ineloquent and therefore believes it ungrammatical, although it is in fact perfectly grammatical.



How would you like your burger? I'll have it my way.

or...

That's the way!

It is indeed a noun, notice the use of the determiners the and my. (http://www.answers.com/way)

The link was for the information on using a prep phrase as an adjective phrase.



Yes!

I'm not saying it's the ideal sentence nor am I saying it is a bad sentence, but it is perfectly grammatical.



Can you say "that's a typical way of thinking"? Or, "that's an American way of thinking"? If you can, then you can also say "that's a typical, American way of thinking".

The "of thinking" part just acts as an adjective modifying the noun "way" (see earlier link). It's perfectly fine to add in new ones on top in front of the clause.

"Way of thinking" is comprised of a noun, a preposition, and a state-of-being verb.

The word you are looking for is 'paradigm'.



Edit: Also, to Richard, I must be behind the discussion. I described the difference in meanings between typical American and typically American, and you rejected my description, saying that your own example was not sufficient.
What, then, are you trying to ascertain?

[dgraham]

Yes, the preposition + nominalized "state of being" verb acts as a giant adjective, basically. I was just trying to make it simple.

Paradigm? Why do you bring that up? The word paradigm (in grammar) refers to the entire set of conjugations/inflections for a verb doesn't it?