Dante' Divine Comedy' Discussion Thread

[Cacian]

These lines stood out again from Canto IIIAnd he to me, as one experienced:

"Here all suspicion needs must be abandoned,
All cowardice must needs be here extinct
In contrast with the above one

Before me there were no created things,
Only eterne, and I eternal last.
All hope abandon, ye who enter in

1) On abandons cowardice and suspicion
but then one must also
2) abondon hope??

Is HOPE here is reference to Pandora's box?

Because abonding the first two makes sense but why abondon hope too?
I am not clear on what does he mean?


then

Languages diverse, horrible dialects,
Accents of anger, words of agony,
And voices high and hoarse, with sound of hands

wasn't this poem written in Tuscany Dialect?
why is it refered to here are HORRIBLE?

[Lemex]

This is why we need footnotes kids.

Well, Adam and Eve eat from the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, and this was forbidden by god. Eve tempted Adam to eat from it, after she was tempted herself by the talking snake. Because of this Adam and Eve was banished from Eden. Their 'Evil' is their weakness and betrayal of God. Betrayal is the sin of the lowest, and most harsh circle of Hell.

Is HOPE here is reference to Pandora's box?

No. Why would you think this?

'All hope abandon, ye who enter in' signifies that Dante has crossed into Hell.

Languages diverse, horrible dialects,
Accents of anger, words of agony,
And voices high and hoarse, with sound of hands

wasn't this poem written in Tuscany Dialect?
why is it refered to here are HORRIBLE?

Dante is hearing the screams of the damned.
On a side note I've just found my new band name.

[Cacian]

This is why we need footnotes kids.

Well, Adam and Eve eat from the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, and this was forbidden by god. Eve tempted Adam to eat from it, after she was tempted herself by the talking snake. Because of this Adam and Eve was banished from Eden. Their 'Evil' is their weakness and betrayal of God. Betrayal is the sin of the lowest, and most harsh circle of Hell.



No. Why would you think this?

'All hope abandon, ye who enter in' signifies that Dante has crossed into Hell.



.

No. Why would you think this?

'All hope abandon, ye who enter in' signifies that Dante has crossed into Hell.

Hope is very significant in the Christian Faith and it is in Pandora's box.
I understood it as he saying abondon all hope as it to say to Pandora to let the Hope out.
This is how I understood.
Remember it is opened to interpretations.

Dante is hearing the screams of the damned.
On a side note I've just found my new band name

He is hearing them screaming.
He only knows one dialect and that is the Tuscany Dialect.
How would he know what other dialects are like.
He only speaks Tuscan.
I am not understanding what he means by HORRIBLE dialect.

Charon the demon, with the eyes of glede,
Beckoning to them, collects them all together,101
Beats with his oar whoever lags behind

Charon is that the same is Sharon a female's name?

[Lemex]

Hope is very significant in the Christian Faith and it is in Pandora's box.
I understood it as he saying abondon all hope as it to say to Pandora to let the Hope out.
This is how I understood.
Remember it is opened to interpretations.

Pandora's Box housed all the evils of the world. Not hope.

He is hearing them screaming.
He only knows one dialect and that is the Tuscany Dialect.
How would he know what other dialects are like.
He only speaks Tuscan.
I am not understanding what he means by HORRIBLE dialect.

I'm not terribly familiar with German but I know it when I hear it. If you hear a dialect you are unfamiliar with you know it's unfamiliar and still a dialect, even if you don't know exactly what it is or what is being said.

Charon is that the same is Sharon a female's name?

Charon is a creature from Greek Mythology, he ferried souls to the Underworld across the river Styx.

[Cacian]

Cacciaguida's Prophecy of Dante's Banishment
Banish and vanish are they the same?

About the prophecy
any reason it is the grand grand father and not his father or his grand father?

Already this is willed, and this is sought for;
And soon it shall be done by him who thinks it,
Where every day the Christ is bought and sold

.

Here the mention of Christ being bought and sold ?
Can you shed some light on this Lemex?
and Oh
what is your band's name?

[Lemex]

Banish and vanish are they the same?

No, they are very different. Google them.

any reason it is the grand grand father and not his father or his grand father?

Don't know, I don't think it will be earth shattering though, and Dante isn't around to ask.

Here the mention of Christ being bought and sold ?
Can you shed some light on this Lemex?

Look at the lines:

'And soon it shall be done by him who thinks it,
Where every day the Christ is bought and sold'

Dante is describing a time in which Christ is meaningless, a commodity, instead of a path to Paradise.

and Oh
what is your band's name?

I don't have a band, it was just a joke.
But I have played in my housemate's band and recorded with them. I'm just not officially a member.

[Cacian]

Pandora's Box housed all the evils of the world. Not hope.



I'm not terribly familiar with German but I know it when I hear it. If you hear a dialect you are unfamiliar with you know it's unfamiliar and still a dialect, even if you don't know exactly what it is or what is being said.



Charon is a creature from Greek Mythology, he ferried souls to the Underworld across the river Styx.

Languages diverse, horrible dialects,
Accents of anger, words of agony,
And voices high and hoarse, with sound of hands

about this languages diverse ?
Words of agony ?? how does he know what the words are?
It is language then it is a dialect. You can only have or the other.
I do not follow......
I am also confused about how does one know that Hell is not ONE and ONLY which means there is one langauge spoken because it is no longer earth/life.
The whole pointo the afterlife is that EVERYONE is THE SAME.
I am not sure I can of want to believe that there is multietinictiy in Hell too.
Religions in from fo God we are ALL EQUAL and that is beginning with the language we speak.
I do not get it.

[Cacian]

No, they are very different. Google them.



Don't know, I don't think it will be earth shattering though, and Dante isn't around to ask.



Look at the lines:
'And soon it shall be done by him who thinks it,
Where every day the Christ is bought and sold'

Dante is describing a time in which Christ is meaningless, a commodity, instead of a path to Paradise.

Bying and selling is Slavery right?
In the time of the Romane is he saying that Christ is a slave?

[Lemex]

about this languages diverse ?
Words of agony ?? how does he know what the words are?
It is language then it is a dialect. You can only have or the other.

If you heard the screams of numberless people from different backgrounds you'd just know it.
And it's both, different dialects and different languages. He's suggesting a mass of people screaming.

I do not follow......

I am also confused about how does one know that Hell is not ONE and ONLY which means there is one langauge spoken because it is no longer earth/life.
The whole pointo the afterlife is that EVERYONE is THE SAME.

If you read on you'll see that in Hell souls still keep their personalities and language.

I am not sure I can of want to believe that there is multietinictiy in Hell too.
Religions in from fo God we are ALL EQUAL and that is beginning with the language we speak.
I do not get it.

I don't understand why this would be a problem. It always seemed pretty simple to me.

[Lemex]

Bying and selling is Slavery right?
In the time of the Romane is he saying that Christ is a slave?

Buying and selling is Slavery only when people are being bought and sold.
And no.

[Cacian]

Buying and selling is Slavery only when people are being bought and sold.
And no.

Hey thank you ...

How about this line here

The light in which was smiling my own treasure
Which there I had discovered, flashed at first
As in the sunshine doth a golden mirror;

About the mirror for some reason it reminded of the fairy tale of Sleeping Beauty and the mirror.

[Cacian]

Here the subtitles are
FIRE (INFERNO)
DEATH/EARTH( HELL)
AIR (PARADISO)

[iabanon]

oh god, i'm getting a headache. this isn't a discussion, it's an education. losing the will to live.

[Cacian]

oh god, i'm getting a headache. this isn't a discussion, it's an education. losing the will to live.

Hehe...the poem is rather heflty how do you suggest one goes about it?

[Lemex]

oh god, i'm getting a headache. this isn't a discussion, it's an education. losing the will to live.

You are on a writing forum ... if you do not wish to learn, why do you wish to teach.

[HorusEye]

Indeed I do understanf about Adam in Genesis.
I am questioning the word Evil?
In what context is it Evil?

It is Evil because Christianity, especially medieval Catholicism hinges entirely on everybody feeling guilty about everything. What better way is there than saying everyone is evil to begin with. <- Notice the lack of a question mark.

I saw in previous posts a discussion on translations. Personally I went with one that does not rhyme but maintains the most accurate translation from Italian. After a few stanza I forgot all about rhyming and appreciated the clarity of the prose instead. I can't really recommend the one I have on my shelf since it's a danish translation, but getting one which is translated in a similar fashion, yeah. Don't buy the book for some translator's ability to conjure rhymes.

[Cacian]

It is Evil because Christianity, especially medieval Catholicism hinges entirely on everybody feeling guilty about everything. What better way is there than saying everyone is evil to begin with. <- Notice the lack of a question mark.

I saw in previous posts a discussion on translations. Personally I went with one that does not rhyme but maintains the most accurate translation from Italian. After a few stanza I forgot all about rhyming and appreciated the clarity of the prose instead. I can't really recommend the one I have on my shelf since it's a danish translation, but getting one which is translated in a similar fashion, yeah. Don't buy the book for some translator's ability to conjure rhymes.

what do you mean by one that does not rhyme?
and how is that anything to do with EVIL?

[HorusEye]

what do you mean by one that does not rhyme?

Isn't that self-explanatory? Oh well, I guess not. A text that rhymes contains rhyming sentences, one that does not shows absence thereof.

and how is that anything with the EVIL?

The blank space in my post denotes a separation of paragraphs which in turn suggests a change in subject. Thus I implied no direct correlation between the Christian concept of evil and the mechanics of rhyming.

[Cacian]

Isn't that self-explanatory? Oh well, I guess not. A text that rhymes contains rhyming sentences, one that does not shows absence thereof.



The blank space in my post denotes a separation of paragraphs which in turn suggests a change in subject. Thus I implied no direct correlation between the Christian concept of evil and the mechanics of rhyming.

It is Evil because Christianity, especially medieval Catholicism hinges entirely on everybody feeling guilty about everything. What better way is there than saying everyone is evil to begin with. <- Notice the lack of a question mark.

why is it BETTER?

[Lemex]

why is it BETTER?

If you can think of a better way to keep people than making them think they are sick, and you can cure them aside from excessive violence.