1. writerdude11
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    writerdude11 Member

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    a question about posting a short story for critique on here

    Discussion in 'The Art of Critique' started by writerdude11, Apr 19, 2013.

    Hey guys, I was wondering if it would be acceptable to post both my first draft and final draft in one post in the writing workshop as a side by side comparision to see if Ive improved on certain areas on writing that I need to work on. I know i still have to make 20 posts and give 2 critques before i do that, and I will:D. If anyone could respond on this Id greatly appreciate it. Thanks.
     
  2. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Recommend you only post the latest draft, but it isn't a rule. If you recive suggestions that lead you back toward some of your original draft, that may be instructive, but why pre-bias the critiquers?

    The less information you provide along with your excerpt, the cleaner the critique you will receive.
     
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  3. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    also, it's not recommended to post entire stories that you hope to have published, anywhere on the internet... if they're available to be read for free, who'd want to pay you for them?... it can also compromise your ability to sell 'first publishing rights'...

    that's why it's best to post only brief excerpts for review/critique/help...
     
  4. LordKyleOfEarth
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    LordKyleOfEarth Contributing Member Contributor

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    I only post full stories up for critique when I intend to not shop them around for publishing. I write those stories with the sole intention of improving my writing skills or experimenting with a new technique/idea/voice. I put previous versions inside spoiler tags so that interested parties can see the progression, but only the most recent version is readily visible (in post #1).
    Spoiler tags work like this
     
  5. blackstar21595
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    blackstar21595 Contributing Member

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    That's a good idea actually, but I thought the site's rules didn't allow us to use spoiler tags like that.
     
  6. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    kyle...
    welcome back, amigo!... where the heck y'been, since last september???

    love and missed-ya hugs, maie
     
  7. LordKyleOfEarth
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    LordKyleOfEarth Contributing Member Contributor

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    I've done it quite often, and I've seen it done by others... I'm not saying it isn't against the rules, but if it is, it's not heavily enforced. I like doing it because it preserves the changes so that the author and reviewers can see how things progressed. I find it to be a useful tool for young writers who are not sure how the revision process works.

    EDIT
    http://www.writingforums.org/showthread.php?t=26927

    This is an example of what I am talking about. Aeschylus ended up revising the story several times, but some of the revisions were, I thought, not as effective as the early work. However, because they were removed, others could not provide feedback regarding which version worked better. He still got to where he wanted to go with it, so replacing the original version does work, but IMO having visible running changes is a useful tool.
     
  8. Caramello Koala
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    Caramello Koala Member

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    Personally I don't think one should ever replace the original story with an improved one because it defeats the purpose of the workshop and inhibits other people's ability to see how the piece has been edited. If you post a story and receive enough feedback for you to change it then it might be a good idea to include the updated draft in spoiler tags as LordKyleOfEaerth has suggested, or to just post it in the same thread (after all of the critiques). Most people that critique a story will not read the other responses before writing theirs anyway as it leads to bias, so they won't see the revised edition at the bottom. But this might upset some reviewers if they spent a great deal of time editing and giving their impressions on your work only to find out that their critique was slightly wasted as you posted a new draft and wanted that critiqued instead. If you are going to add a follow up draft in the thread I would urge you to please edit the original post to include a bolded disclaimer at the start that you have redrafted and would prefer any new critiques to be on that draft. I think the best way to handle redrafting is to PM the members who contributed in your thread and ask them if they'd privately critique your new draft. This not only cleans the thread up but it also allows you a chance to publish the story if the redraft is significantly different to the original. It is likely that after all of the critiques you have received, and the private critiques of others, your story will be polished enough to be viable for publishing and it would be a shame to be denied the possibility if the final draft is posted on the thread. After all, the 'workshop' is for stories that need to be 'workshopped', not finished pieces. Sure it's nice to see the progression, but it's not essential and can even be limiting for the writer in cases such as that. Something to consider.
     
  9. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    In fact, that is also a recommendation in How to Use the Writing Workshop.
     
  10. jannert
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    jannert Contributing Member Supporter Contributor

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    I definitely second ...well, THIRD...that recommendation. It's a shame when people spend a lot of time critiquing a piece that has already been revised, later in the thread.
     
  11. Caramello Koala
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    Caramello Koala Member

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    Strange, I can't see it anywhere in the guidelines.
     
  12. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Hmm. I could have sworn that was in there. I certainly said it enough times.
     
  13. jannert
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    jannert Contributing Member Supporter Contributor

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    Hi Cogito - The idea that a person should edit a warning into their original post, to tell people that they've put a revised version into the thread, and to ask them to critique the newer version—this doesn't appear in the Writers' Workshop rules, which I've quoted above. However, I certainly have seen the suggestion written on the site somewhere before. Can't remember where. Maybe it should be added to the Rules section? It's a good idea.
     
  14. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I'll have to ask a moderator to edit it. I can't do it myself because it's a closed thread. I'd change the second bu;;et point to begin with:
    (New text in RED)
     
  15. Catrin Lewis
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    Catrin Lewis Contributing Member Contributor

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    I'm glad I tripped over this thread. I'm off to the Workshop to post "Revised" disclaimers on my earlier submissions. I just hope it'll let me edit them after all this time.
     
  16. Hubardo
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    Hubardo Contributing Member Contributor

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    I had been browsing a few writing forums online and found this one to be, by far, the most helpful. I posted a chapter of a novel I started writing in 2013 and got great feedback, then part of a short story. Such great feedback. But then I realized I did want to try to get some short stories published so since then I've been more judicious about posting here. Even short story excerpts... I wonder if a publisher might copy and paste part of your material into google and find that you published any of it online and find that a turnoff.

    That said, I'm interested in and in need of critiques for what I'm writing but feel hesitant about publishing in forum posts. Am wondering if there's anyone out there who would be interested in creating an online crit circle for short stories (or something else short - I cannot read novel manuscripts right now). I would imagine this would just be exchanges via email to keep it private. Are there folks in these forums who do this already who might want to let someone else in? I'm very willing to critique in exchange for critiques, as that goes...
     
  17. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    Not to let the cat out of the bag before we've brushed its fur, but this is something we are looking to add to our forum: Closed, private writing groups. We know that future publication is always a concern for aspiring writers and we also know that there are writers of genres that perhaps would prefer a more intimate setting in which to discuss them, for the sake of being fully open and frank about the material. We're still looking into implementation because we would truly love to offer the very thing you mention within the scope of our community, all in one place, so to speak. :)
     
  18. Hubardo
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    Hubardo Contributing Member Contributor

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    Lemme know when it begins!
     
  19. Boger
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    Boger Contributing Member

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    I wrote first draft in the submission
     

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