1. JJ_Maxx

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,321
    Likes Received:
    503

    A quick question regarding 'after all'...

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by JJ_Maxx, Nov 17, 2012.

    I need a little help on how this sentence should be written or if it should be broken up.

    Is this okay, or am I feeling weird for a reason?
     
  2. minstrel

    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    10,742
    Likes Received:
    9,991
    Location:
    Near Sedro Woolley, Washington
    I'd make two sentences of this:

    It was not the blackness of night. After all, it was almost four o'clock.
     
  3. JJ_Maxx

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,321
    Likes Received:
    503
    Yeah I think you're right. Thanks!
     
  4. Thumpalumpacus

    Thumpalumpacus Alive in the Superunknown

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2012
    Messages:
    594
    Likes Received:
    165
    Location:
    Texas
    I don't mind the "after all" -- I like conversational writing, which is what that is.

    What I don't care for in that passage is the confusion between sensation and abstraction. In one thought, you refer to the color of the sky, in the other, the time of day. How would I do it?

    ... or something like that. It aligns the senses (visual with visual, not abstract) and it also gives a sense of time ("crawling").
     
  5. JJ_Maxx

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,321
    Likes Received:
    503
    Well, my MC is sitting in front of a window that is 'blacked-out'. So even though it might be afternoon outside, you can't see anything through the window. I'm trying to convey that the window is black because it's been blacked out, rather than have the reader assume it's dark.
     
  6. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    19,150
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Location:
    Coquille, Oregon
    depending on which meaning you need there, the period can go after 'night' or after 'all'... the difference in meaning could make a difference in re the context of what came before that sentence...
     
  7. cazann34

    cazann34 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    42
    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    "It was not the blackness of night, after all, it was almost four o’clock".

    To me this sentence is very clunky. Perhaps if you said;

    It was not the blackest of nights, after all, it was only four O'clock in the afternoon/morning.
     
  8. JJ_Maxx

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,321
    Likes Received:
    503
    No, the meaning is more:

    The window wasn't black because it was nighttime. It was almost four o'clock in the afternoon.
     
  9. minstrel

    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    10,742
    Likes Received:
    9,991
    Location:
    Near Sedro Woolley, Washington
    Just to clarify: The window was black. But it wasn't black because it was nighttime. It was, in fact, four o'clock in the afternoon. The window was black because it had been blacked out.
     
  10. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    5,160
    Likes Received:
    4,244
    Location:
    Australia
    I'd rather you just say the window was blacked out and it's day outside. Saves all the confusion. After all (he he), it can be 4 o'clock in the morning...
     
  11. JJ_Maxx

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,321
    Likes Received:
    503
    I decided to show rather than tell:

    ;)

    ~ J. J.
     
  12. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    5,160
    Likes Received:
    4,244
    Location:
    Australia
    I don't like it. All she could see was blackness? I am imagining that beyond the glass. That doesn't tell me it's been deliberately blacked out. With the heat outside it gets even more confusing. Just be blunt. The window is blacked out.... she can't see through it but takes comfort from the heat of the sun...
     
  13. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,262
    Likes Received:
    13,084
    I have a couple of issues with the sentence. First, it's two sentences, and that comma is not a satisfactory way of stringing the two together. You could replace it with a semicolon:

    It was not the darkness of night; after all, it was almost four o'clock.

    But American fiction rarely uses semicolons. So it could be:

    It was not the darkness of night. After all, it was almost four o'clock.
    or
    It was not the darkness of night--after all, it was almost four o'clock.

    My next problem is with "almost". That word seems to emphasize how late it is, when you want to emphasize how early it is, so:

    It was not the darkness of night--after all, it was only four o'clock.

    But that leaves the question of which four o'clock. So:

    It was not the darkness of night--after all, it was only four o'clock, not even dinnertime.
    or
    It was not the darkness of night--it was still afternoon, not even four o'clock.
     
  14. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    19,150
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Location:
    Coquille, Oregon
    1.'struggle to see' makes no sense, unless she's blindfolded and tried to maneuver the blindfold so she could see out of it...

    2.the rest is also a problem, as selbbin notes...

    i agree it would be best to stop futzin' around and just let the readers know what the situation is, with a coherent description of the window...
     
  15. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,262
    Likes Received:
    13,084
    I think that I'd need a longer explanation here, and some following of the character as they adjust:

    Jenna stared at the window. It was dark, nighttime dark. A wild glance at the clock confirmed that, no, she hadn't lost six hours of time--it was still midafternoon. She walked to the window and touched it, her mind still searching for explanations. Had someone pasted a dark film over it? Added shutters outside? No, she could barely see the outline of the hydrangeas outside, lit by the light coming _out_ of the living room. Outside there were no light sources, no porchlight bulb, no streetlights, no stars, no moon. Except, the window was warm--it felt as if it were still being heated by the absent sun.

    I'm obviously not suggesting the above, just using it as an example of how much explanation I'd need for a phenomenon like this.
     
  16. JJ_Maxx

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,321
    Likes Received:
    503
    Good suggestion, CF! I eventually decided to use dialogue to enforce the idea of the window being 'blacked out' on purpose.

    I think this show that A: It's afternoon and the sun is out, but B: The government blacked out the window. Seems to work.
     
  17. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    5,160
    Likes Received:
    4,244
    Location:
    Australia
    You're really set on this, but it's the main bit that doesn't work. At all.

    Why not something simple like

     
  18. JJ_Maxx

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,321
    Likes Received:
    503
    Is it 'struggled' that bothers you? I could use 'strained'.
     
  19. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    5,160
    Likes Received:
    4,244
    Location:
    Australia
    It's
    that bothers me.

    If it was 'struggled' then I would have changed it in my suggestion.
     
  20. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    19,150
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Location:
    Coquille, Oregon
    neither struggled nor strained makes much [if any] sense...
     
  21. JJ_Maxx

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,321
    Likes Received:
    503
    How so? You can strain to see through fog, or snow or darkness. You are trying to see through something that is making it difficult.

    Is this the wrong usage?
     
  22. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,262
    Likes Received:
    13,084
    I find "strained" a little iffy because it sounds like the window is flat-out opaque, so straining to see through it seems a little like straining to see through a regular wall. I don't know if that's everyone else's problem with it or not.
     
  23. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    19,150
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Location:
    Coquille, Oregon
    they're both simply overkill there, imo...
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice