1. Senko
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    Senko Member

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    A rather philosophical question. (A better World??)

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Senko, Jun 2, 2013.

    I have many times heard or read that people wants a better World.

    For whatever reason they may have.

    "A better World"

    That phrase alone could raise a lot of controversy.

    I guess we all want that. But, on the other hand, we might have in mind
    very different ideas of what it means.


    If anyone wants to share ...

    What comes to your mind when somebody reads or says that phrase?

    And, do you consider yourself optimistic about it? (I mean about that being possible)

    I really don´t intend to make a debate out of this.
    Just to listen to what people say. To different points of view.
     
  2. Speedy
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    Speedy Contributing Member Contributor

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    A "better" world for me, would be a world where every person has the chance/option of being the best they can. A world where we're not placed into fine little boxes and told what our role has to be. I most certainly complain about many things I find disturbing, or wrong, but all that matters for myself is that I look after meat all times. If I'm healthy and positive, than the world becomes a little brighter. When I hear it from other people, I always think how it is better for them.
     
  3. EdFromNY
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    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    To me, a better world is one in which each person is free, as John F. Kennedy once said, to pursue his own course, so long as that course does not interfere with the freedom of others. It would be a world governed by reason rather than emotion, by rule of law rather than by force.
     
  4. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    A better world is one where people evolve into critical thinkers.

    Right now we are so incredibly primitive as a species. I know this is going to offend some, I'm sorry, but I see god beliefs as primitive as beliefs in Zeus or Pelé or Coyote that stole fire from heaven. I don't get it how modern educated people still believe in god myths.

    If we didn't spend billions on worthless remedies, there'd be enough resources to provide scientific evidence based medicine for everyone on the planet. And the medical community is not immune, we have a lot to learn about the flaws in our own interpretation of the scientific evidence.

    When my son was in elementary school, I couldn't interest any of his teachers in adding media literacy to the curriculum. Kids are exposed to millions of hours of advertisements by the time they are adults, and the schools don't think it is valuable to teach them how to assess marketing tactics.

    The US prides itself on it's democracy. We've lasted this long. But a democracy is dependent upon an informed population. We may just squeak by given we have the Internet as a source of information. But the mainstream news media in most of the modern world has become nothing more than a commodity. It's not a source of information, it's a source of the cheapest product that will sell advertising space. Newspapers are failing, not because people no longer read the paper, but because they've been bought up by corporations that have gutted their investigative news budgets. Why hire Woodward and Goldstein when you can get more bang for your buck from some talking heads that simply interview the next election candidates, regardless of how far off the next election is, never fact checking and only superficially challenging the canned answers contained in the political speeches that substitute for interviews.

    Kind of only scratches the surface but I think I'll stop there.
     
  5. jannert
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    jannert Contributing Member Supporter Contributor

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    Wow. I second both those posts!

    Or, as my old dad used to say : Your right to swing your arm ends where the other guy's nose begins!

    Unfortunately, the internet is also a HUGE source of misinformation. As you say, GingerCoffee, training in critical thinking is definitely required. However, I fear that "we" humans are now making important political and personal decisions based on internet-generated notions and the opinionated fulminations of internet users, without knowing who or what they represent. Scary.

    I also find myself oversaturated with online information/counter-information at times. I just want to crawl back into bed, shut my eyes, and make it all go away. Instead of doing that, I take extended breaks from news, don't watch TV much, (do read a daily paper), do NOT have a smartphone, tablet or any other portable device, and don't mind leaving my computer behind when I go away on holiday, or to stay with friends for a few days.

    However, I'm an old hag (64 this month) and was raised before all this internet stuff happened. (I didn't even have a TV when I was growing up! - VERY UnAmerican, eh?) I do wonder at how younger folks, who are used to being 'connected' all the time, cope with this torrent of 'must do, must know' stuff coming at them from all sides. How do they filter what's important from what's not?

    I love the internet. But I don't want IT to control ME.
     
  6. Juju Bagdasarian
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    Juju Bagdasarian Member

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    I really believe that the world can change, hell then what are we fighting for. its impossible to think that your happiness wont get the way of someone elses though, my friend and i, we are working on a formula for a better organized society and there are a lot of option that can be used but the promblem are the heads at the top (multinational companies), absolute freedom it sounds nice but its not something that can be done at least if you have a shread of consiousness and dont want to be a hippie.


    they dont control anything all they do is absorb usless information from facebook not because the internet is bad but because as you said they cant filter, i used to fight with my friends about going to internet coffee center and spent money to play online games, absolutely not healthy, i can imagine how 11 year old kids hold a smart phone in their hands and uses wifi to connect to his facebook page and check his message and status every 5 minutes
     
  7. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    The only better world I can think of is one where people don't feel the need to be such jerks. I don't want utopia, just give me that!
     
  8. GoldenGhost
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    GoldenGhost Contributing Member

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    Well, I think there's a great difference in believing the mythos literally, and taking what you can from the story and applying it to your life--the latter you already more than likely do, even on a subconscious level, every time you read a good piece of fiction. Critical thinking is most definitely important, and though I do agree with your statement to a degree, I think there's a huge lack of spiritual, not religious, but spiritual curiosity. And a lot of those myths you're referring contain, so richly, principles embedded deep in their stories, amplified through vivid metaphors and images, thus showing us ways to connect and get to know ourselves intimately, so we can therefore get to know our fellows just as intimately. I also think that we focus too much on being different and on being individuals that we get so wrapped up in thinking about what separates us from the herd, so much we forget we all breathe the same air, essentially getting in the way of ourselves. When the differences are all that are cared about or thought about, it only becomes that much harder to unite and work together, because everyone acts as if they are unique. That's not to say we aren't individuals, or that I'm minimizing individuality and freedom of expression, for no one sees the world quite like you do, but how else can we expect to progress and move forward as a whole, when we're constantly telling each other things similar to, "Don't you know who I am?"; "You have no idea what it's like to be me!"; "If you only knew!" "You must get to know who I am first, before we can understand each other."; For us to grow, we have to do so together, and to do so together, we must humble ourselves enough to put aside our differences and focus on what matters--what brings us together, what will allow us to hold hands and walk towards our goals.
     
  9. erebh
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    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

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    a world without the illuniniti, not much to ask for is it?
     
  10. Alesia
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    Alesia Pen names: AJ Connor, Carey Connolly Contributor

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    A world without politics! Everywhere I go, Republican this, Democrat that, congress and Obama, and healthcare, international affairs, the list goes on and I could just scream if I hear anymore about it. If there was just some fantasy world with no government (that wasn't in anarchy) I'd go there in a heartbeat.
     
  11. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    a non-violent one...

    not in the least, sad to say... as i'm a practicing philosopher, having studied humankind's history and behaviors for most of my over 7 decades of living, i see no possible way a non-violent world can ever exist on this planet, given the number of violent species here, with humans being the most violent of all...
     
  12. Alesia
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    Alesia Pen names: AJ Connor, Carey Connolly Contributor

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    Makes me think about the beginning of Fallout "War, war never changes..." Doesn't matter if 99% of humanity has been wiped out by a nuclear war, the world will still be violent and people will still kill each other.
     
  13. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    If only we were closer genetically to Bonobos than to Chimpanzees. ;)



    Why do you need to couch human needs in terms of fictional beings?

    I have no issue with looking at the elements of myth and religion, there is a lot to be learned there about human nature, about culture, about ourselves and our societies. But why label what you are referring to as "spirituality"? It adds an unnecessary layer to what we are. We are humans, biological beings, all the things you call "spiritual" can be found right there in our nature and nurture, no Nonoverlapping Magisteria required. :)
     
  14. blackstar21595
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    blackstar21595 Contributing Member

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    A world where you can go to any neighborhood, and not expect to get shot,robbed, or jumped.
     
  15. Allan Paas
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    Allan Paas Contributing Member

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    (A little messy, I think. Got too little sleep, went to work in the morning, been up all day, and then as the final act of the day, aside the obvious ones... was this.)

    Simple to ask, and not really so hard to answer.
    Ask yourself this, what is needed for humanity's progress without anything excessive, anything that stands in the way or acts as a hindering factor?
    A medium of exchange. A world without capitalism, or any monetary system. Neither a dictatorship or anything similar.

    How could one possibly work without money? Well, how does it work presently? People work, they produce goods, and people also use those goods. They produce more than they themselves can ever hope to consume, meaning there is room for those who can deal with mentally strenuous jobs, and occupations related to those, that produce nothing of actual sustenance - knowledge - which is needed to further humanity. Where in that, and why should money be involved? All it does is slow us down.
    Why not instead people produce, then use them, without any kind of exchange? Products are meant to be used in the first place, its why they are made. Exchange is completely unnecessary.

    Whether there is money or not does not matter. People absolutely have to keep working, if they didn't, everything we have would not be. If they suddenly stopped it would stop humanity from growing, and above that they themselves would stop being able to acquire the things they so much like, and downright die. Presently it is as if it keeps humanity advancing while in reality it is the people who work that keeps everything going.

    And why is it still this way... if it is so blatantly obvious that capitalism is not beneficial to anyone? Prices rise, then wages rise. Some people become "successful" while others lose everything, and all others in between; those poor look at the successful, thinking they could as well be like that, and when they don't look they have to worry how to get by this month and the next and the one after that. Then, guess what, prices rise... and outgoings have to be cut - bad times. Then, eventually, wages rise - oh, how wonderful, happy times. And so on and on. It's as if it is all an illusion to keep people from thinking how to make things better. It's as if someone is controlling our civilization, whether knowledgeably or not.
    Life is not a game.

    People struggle to get by, to work, to get money to buy goods they need. Some can barely afford decent meals, yet there is a superabundance of all goods, there is literally enough for everyone. It doesn't matter at all whether someone needs just food or even water, the mentality is that "if you don't have the money you won't get this product". All products are made to be used, it is their purpose. Now why should one first get a "permission" called money to begin using it? People must have resources, which in turn requires them to work to make them, and these together enable humanity's progress. It is that simple, any other factor will only hinder us.

    Everything has a price and since you have to meet that price to get it, like the things that keep people alive - food - people are forced to work. There's the illusion that things will get better but they never will. Money itself is like a price put on humanity itself, and as long as it's attached things are a mess. The true reality is that nothing has a price; if something is needed it must be made available.

    What is the most important thing to us? Survival. There are many threats, the most dangerous ones are out in space. Sure, an extinctive event might be of utmost rarity but they are there still. The most prominent ones are the Sun, and cosmic rocks. Them rendering earth itself a mere rock is very much a possibility. But we have an intelligent and creative mind. With enough time we could get away from Earth, colonize other planets, increasing our chances of survival. Staying just here on Earth and not leaving would be just as good as blowing up the planet this very moment.
    Now, when you think about life in general, and view plants and animals, and other organisms, what have they been doing since the moment life sprung? Surviving, isn't it? Life in general has an internal sort of like "will" to keep existing. If it stayed just on Earth it would one day end with absolute certainty. But our creative and intelligent minds can prevent that from happening, assuming we worked toward it.

    Working for money, or because of money sounds pretty much like an absolute idiocy. And that's exactly what it is, and then to think that people work just for that one reason... sad, very sad.
    Considering what capitalism truly is - slavery - then whether you like it or not it creates the feeling like someone, some people, is intentionally keeping it this way. Until someone else stops and corrects things.

    There's the education that presently is off by far, as the education supposed to be received from schools, when viewed objectively, creates a biased mind. Would be nice to fix that. Also, in most countries, not just students, but all people are regarded as average - a huge mistake as people differ, there's not one like the other, even though they may be outstandingly similar.

    There's also the religious factor... But luckily that is fading. Hopefully it will die soon enough. I mean seriously... they take one fantasy as reality and regard others as unreal? It's either all or none; if one or some but none others then that's being delusional or insane.
    If anyone is offended by this then that's none of my concern, I will not lie. Neither will I keep myself back because someone might get hurt while I am telling the truth. I accept that there are people with differing opinions, so should you. (Just in case...)
     
  16. ithestargazer
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    ithestargazer Active Member

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    I think about the idea of a political system where leaders do not have money-centric or religious agendas. I'm not saying this is realistic, but it would be interesting. I also second EdFromNY's post.
     
  17. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    A world where racism, sexism, ageism, and all the other -isms that exist never did exist. When I think of the geniuses, the peacemakers, the philosophers, the scientists, the writers, the artists, the people who would love, and those who would be loved who never became any of those things because of the color their skin, their gender, their age, their culture, their sexual orientation... It feels like the worst sin any religion could ever conjure.
     
  18. GoldenGhost
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    GoldenGhost Contributing Member

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    Spirituality is, in its most basic form, a journey of the spirit.. a journey of the self, in order to find understanding and truth about the nature of who/what we are as biological beings.. so the unnecessary label you are attaching to it, whatever it may be, sounds more like a personal problem, than anything practical, sorry to say... and it also sounds, unless i'm mistaken, like you're more focused on the fiction, than the principles being 'shown' in the fiction.. which are principles that nourish the spirit, or help one become more 'human' or whatever the hell you want to call it.. It has absolutely nothing to do with religion, or anything religious, what-so-ever, but everything to do with the understanding of one's Being..
     
  19. maskedhero
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    maskedhero Active Member

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    The world is constantly getting better. 99% of humanity lived through horrible lives that none of us could even contemplate (and I speak with assurance, since if you're reading a website, you're pretty well off, at least in comparison to many of our sad ancestors), and we are their living descendants. They would be happy that we have the lives we have now. Each day, we step closer towards a better world, but even if it doesn't get much better, we've enjoyed so much progress in such a short amount of time, that we may already have a better world.

    As to what comes to mind when that phrase is used...I see slick and evil behind it. I watch too many apocalyptic films.
     
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  20. jazzabel
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    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

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    Free education, housing and healthcare for all; eradication of pathological greed (or at least severe sanctioning and diligent prevention); people of Earth united in one society, no borders but healthy sensitivity towards multiculturalism; the entire world is as ecologically aware and caring towards their country as Norway; eradication of misogynist patriarchy from all areas of life (including religion); true equality under the law for all; space and Earth-friendly (including human-friendly) research to be the main spending; 6 hours 4 days a week working week maximum, with adequate pay for needs and wants, get robots and machines to do as much as possible (be creative, they can do a lot more than they do now), giving humans time to spend with their friends and families, keeping healthy, enjoying life; eradication of war. Although this last bit is probably utopia. But the rest could easly be done, if only there was will.

    ps. @Allan Paas:
    Well said :)
     
  21. Makeshift
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    Makeshift Active Member

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    On a similar note, I would argue that the fact that I will die one day means I should just shoot myself right now.
     

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