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  1. MLM
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    MLM Banned for trolling

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    A satanic monument on the Oklahoma Statehouse lawn?

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by MLM, May 9, 2014.

    http://www.vice.com/read/heres-the-first-look-at-the-new-satanic-monument-being-built-for-oklahomas-statehouse

    So, should a statue of Baphomet be put on the statehouse lawn? I'm an atheist, but I think it's a good idea because I approve of Satan in general and feel Satanic values are worth promulgating, regardless of my non-belief. What do you think of the moral and legal arguments behind one, the other, or both being put up/not put up?

    I figure there are 3 likely outcomes to this controversy:

    A: Both the xtian monument and the Satanic monument are put up.
    B: Both the xtian monument and the Satanic monument are not put up.
    C: The xtian monument stays and the Satanic monument does not go up.

    Of the three, I think C is the most likely.
     
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  2. Garball
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    Garball Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand. Supporter Contributor

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    Anton LaVey is spinning in his grave right now.
     
  3. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    My prediction, if the monument goes up it'll need a 24 hour guard to keep some Christians from tearing it down. They almost certainly will not tolerate it.
     
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  4. Garball
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    Garball Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand. Supporter Contributor

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    Is the Satanic Temple associated with the Church of Satan? If so, these actions don't really jive with the code of conduct in the Satanic Bible written by the man in my previous post.
     
  5. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Harvard is going to have a Satanic Mass I heard. Goes to show that book smarts don't always equal out to common sense.
     
  6. Lea`Brooks
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    Lea`Brooks Contributing Member Contributor

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    I honestly believe if one stays, the other should stay as well. It's freedom of religion. If Christians are allowed to put the ten commandments up, a statue of Baphomet should also be allowed. And really, it's quite a beautiful piece. I'd love to have something like that around here.

    Personally, I think Satanism is met with such an unnecessarily negative stigma. If people were to really research it more, they'd realize it's not the horribly religion everyone thinks it is. Just because the name "Satan" is involved, people automatically assume it's evil.

    I think, whether the statue stays or goes, it's a great step in the right direction. Freedom of religion goes both ways, and I have a feeling this is going to be a real eye-opener.
     
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  7. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    You are going to have to explain this a little better. I believe totally the opposite of how you feel. I think if you research it more you'll find it is a lot more evil than you think it is.
     
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  8. MLM
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    MLM Banned for trolling

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    There's a lot of different versions of satanism running around, but the kind I approve of is that which involves using necromancy to conjure extra-planar beings of total evil to destroy the universe.
     
  9. Lea`Brooks
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    Lea`Brooks Contributing Member Contributor

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    In the original article posted, there's a link at the bottom where you can visit their website, or to make it easier for you, here http://www.thesatanictemple.com/. Towards the bottom of the homepage, it has a list of their "commandments," or tenets. They aren't evil at all.

    There are a few different branches of Satanism, from what I've gathered(http://www.religionfacts.com/satanism/index.htm). There are those that consider themselves atheists, as listed here http://www.churchofsatan.com/faq-fundamental-beliefs.php. There are those who are theists, or worship Baphomet or some other Horned God taken from pagan traditions. And then there are stupid people, who worship the devil to get attention. They are the one's who claim to sacrifice animals and perform hexes and curses on people (although hexes and curses are often associated with witchcraft and Wicca and some branches of paganism).

    Satamism is not about sacrificing animals (http://altreligion.about.com/od/beliefsandcreeds/f/satanism_animals.htm) or killing or hurting people (http://altreligion.about.com/od/satanism/f/SRA.htm). It is all about self-empowerment and taking control over yourself and your life (http://altreligion.about.com/od/satanismlaveyan/tp/nine_satanic_statements.htm). Once you get past the idiots that give Satanism a bad name, it's really quite a beautiful religion. It cuts all the bullshit out of life (http://altreligion.about.com/od/beliefsandcreeds/tp/9_satanic_sins.htm) and encourages people to be themselves and defend themselves as necessary (http://altreligion.about.com/od/satanismlaveyan/a/11satanic_rules.htm).

    A lot of info there, which I don't expect you to read. But I hope you'll at least glance at each one and read the bold text. Satanism is a misunderstood religion that I try to shed some light on as often as I can.


    PS: Not a Satanist, just really enjoy learning about different religions. :)
     
  10. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    That's the problem, it isn't necessarily about self empowerment, but rather self gratification that takes the forefront over doing what is best for the world.
     
  11. Lea`Brooks
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    Lea`Brooks Contributing Member Contributor

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    And what's wrong with self gratification if they aren't stealing or hurting anyone else to get it? So it may be a little selfish, but not everyone's purpose in life is to do what's best for the world. It's more to just be happy. They're just going about it a little differently.
     
  12. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    I'm trying to resist but I can't help myself.

    "self gratification that takes the forefront over doing what is best for the world."​

    Sounds a lot like the Jerry Falwell-Pat Robertson-right wing Evangelical version of Christianity: God made them rich, they must deserve it, and one can't possibly destroy the environment, God's creation is too great for we puny humans to harm, therefore pollute away and don't worry about global warming.
     
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  13. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    The problem is, they are selling it as self empowerment, and growing personally, when that is just a sales pitch to get people to worship Satan. Greed, Envy, Gluttony, almost all the things that are specific sins of almost any religion. If you want a religion that is about self empowerment, and not just some BS, talk to Jack Asher about his religion.
     
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  14. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    No not at all, and please don't lop me into a group of guys that are false prophets who will preach to your face and then do dirty things behind closed doors.
     
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  15. Lea`Brooks
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    Lea`Brooks Contributing Member Contributor

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    No one is selling anything so no sales pitch is needed. Satanists, Wiccans, and Pagans are not attempting to recruit anyone to their side. They are simply trying to practice their own religion, freely and equally. And again, many of them do not worship Satan. They are atheists that have chosen to better their own lives instead of bettering someone else's. Many people from other religions live the exact same way, but because they don't carry the title "Satanist," it isn't looked down on.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2014
  16. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    I don't recall your name anywhere on my post and I made a conscious effort to say "some" Christians because it's obviously not all Christians.

    As for false profits, what proportion of Christians are you discounting among the true Christians and how are we to know which are which?


    In the meantime:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. MLM
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    MLM Banned for trolling

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    Lewdog has a good point. A lot of satanism has a strong objectivist bent. Anti-clericalism is good and all but not at the expense of turning into a libertarian.
     
  18. Garball
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    Garball Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand. Supporter Contributor

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    The founder of the church of satan is not a hero
     
  19. Andrae Smith
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    Andrae Smith Gone exploring... in the inner realm... Contributor

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    I can see the opinions being loaded already. :cool:
    While @Lewdog raises an interesting point of discussion, I think it is largely a subjective take on it. Thanks @Lea`Brooks for the clarification and links as well. If anything I am not a Satanist for many reasons, but I agree there are a lot of misconceptions derived solely from the name and association with occult practices. I honestly think religious literacy needs to be mandatory in high school. Maybe drop gov./econ. since hardly anyone pays attention to it anyway, or health and geography since they prove less than useful to most students.

    As for the OP. I do think there will be enough protests to prevent the statue from going up on gov't property. To be truly honest, I am okay with the 10 commandments being there and mildly, mildly wary of this, simply because of my background in Christianity. I'm sorry; I do know there is nothing to be wary about. That's just my unfiltered, feeling-based reaction, if I'm being completely honest.

    However, I support it going up because it would only be fair. The gov't is a non religious institution, so to sport one religion's monument, even one so culturally ingrained, and not another's makes it hard to maintain an air of non affiliation. What's more, it is a good thing to represent different cultures or beliefs.There is nothing wrong with a beautiful piece of artwork from another culture or belief system, although I don't like that it's done out of reaction against another. I just hate counter religions; their sole purpose for existing is to breed dissent, and that's not okay in my book.

    If anything, I'm more concerned about what this may stir up.
     
  20. Garball
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    Garball Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand. Supporter Contributor

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    To say it's fair isn't necessarily true. The church of satan as developed by levey was a counter action to Christianity. Without Christianity and it's doctrines, said opposing "church" would not exist. It is the same as saying an anarchist manuscript should be placed next to the US Constitution
     
  21. MLM
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    MLM Banned for trolling

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    I wouldn't rate the one or the other better or worse.
     
  22. Garball
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    Garball Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand. Supporter Contributor

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    One is the thesis and the other the antithesis
     
  23. MLM
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    MLM Banned for trolling

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    So I guess you guys are against protestantism? After all protestantism is just a reaction to catholicism.
     
  24. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Lol, Satanism.
     
  25. HelloThere
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    HelloThere Contributing Member

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    I remember reading the satanic commandments, it was stuff like "Don't hurt little children." and "Respect people in their own homes." whereas god's commandments are "worship me and only me" or "don't do anything on Sunday."
     
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