1. yokone
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    yokone Member

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    A sentence after "Refer to"

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by yokone, Dec 19, 2010.

    Hi everybody!

    We were preparing a presentation, and I got stuck on a problem with usage of refer to. I wanted to use the word of meaning instead of refer to because a sentence follows refer to, but from my knowledge, we can not use a sentence after refer to, but I want to learn if there is a way to use a sentence after refer to...

    Thanks alot....
     
  2. VM80
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    VM80 Contributing Member Contributor

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    I'm not quite sure I understand your question?

    Can you post the sentence?
     
  3. FrankABlissett
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    FrankABlissett Active Member

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    I's Confused!

    In what context are you using "refer to"? What sort of sentence follows?

    -Frank
     
  4. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    yup!... we can't tell what it is you want to know if you don't give us an example...
     
  5. R-e-n-n-a-t
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    R-e-n-n-a-t Contributing Member

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    I'm really not sure what you're asking.
     
  6. madhoca
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    madhoca Contributing Member Contributor

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    The words 'refer(s) to' are followed by a noun, gerund, or you must put:
    refer(s) to the fact that + sentence. 'Refer(s) to' cannot be followed directly by a sentence.

    E.G.
    'The holidaymaker' refers to the person who is going on holiday
    'Holiday time' refers to taking time off work
    'Having a stab at this' refers to the fact that I am an ESL teacher who gets asked questions like this on a daily basis.

    However, there's still a chance I may have misunderstood what the OP was referring to...
     
  7. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    we can't know, if he doesn't tell us..............
     
  8. yokone
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    yokone Member

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    Ok thanks alot I got it...

    I asked how to use a sentence after "refer to"...

    For Ex. (I am just making up, it could be absurd)

    Lost millions of dollars refer to the robbery...

    If I want to use a sentence after refer to like;

    Lost millions of dollars refer to the bank was robbed at night.

    But I got my answer.... We have to use "the fact that" after "refer to"...
    I have another question then... I asked this question before in this forum, and I got some good answers... Can we use the fact that after "as a result of" like;

    I was among the top %2 of students in my class as a result of my high grades.

    ...with a sentence like

    I was among the top %2 of the students in my class as a result of the fact that my grades were very high..


    Thank you for your concern...
     
  9. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    sorry, but what you're saying is still not making any sense... that could be the result of english not being your first language, or of poor schooling...

    in re your example:
    if, as it seems, you're quoting something, to make sense, that needs to be written like this:
    if that's not what you meant, you'll have to explain it more clearly...

    what you seem to be referring to as a 'sentence' is just added words, not a sentence, so it's hard to know what you actually mean...

    even if done correctly, as shown above, that will still not make any sense, as it would then be:
    and when it was robbed ['at night'] has no connection to the money being lost... plus, just 'at night' makes little sense being there at all...

    yes, you can, but it's much more wordy than it need be and 'less is more' is still the best axiom for writers to follow... however, you must put the % symbol after the number, not before it as you've done...

    simpler, less wordy sentence could be:
    that cuts 7 words ['as a result of the fact that] down to 1 ['because']... always strive for simplicity and clarity, if you want your work to be reader-friendly...

    hugs, maia
     
  10. FrankABlissett
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    FrankABlissett Active Member

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    Mama,

    At risk of being a contrarian little stinker...

    "...and when it was robbed ['at night'] has no connection to the money being lost..."

    Unless the OP meant something like:
    "We would have only lost a pittance if the robbery had happened during the day. As it was, the robbery happened at night - after all the cash bags had been brought in."

    Kinda doubt that's what was meant though. ;)

    -Frank
     
  11. madhoca
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    madhoca Contributing Member Contributor

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    @ maia: I also understood this to be a student whose first language is not English. I think the student is only concerned about how to join, e.g.
    'Lost millions of dollars'
    and
    'there was a robbery'
    with 'refer(s) to'

    The way that ESL students are expected to join sentences together in such a case would have to be:
    "Lost millions of dollars" refers to the fact that there was a robbery OR
    "Lost millions of dollars" refers to the robbery.

    ESL students do not usually have the option of rephrasing these sentences into more natural English--they are forced to use expressions like 'refer to' and need guidance in how to use the expressions according to grammar rules.

    The reason the student wrote:
    Lost millions of dollars refer to the robbery
    is because s/he fell into the trap of seeing 'dollars' (plural) and so assumed it had to be 'refer', not 'referS'.

    You're right (of course) that in the sentence:
    "Lost millions of dollars" refers to the fact that the bank was robbed at night.
    the 'at night' is unnecessary, but I doubt a foreign teacher of English would ever pick up on this--it's only the grammar form that they are interested in.

    These reference questions frequently come in English proficiency tests for reading, as well as writing or presentation-type work.

    The same goes for 'as a result of the fact that':
    I got a scholarship as a result of my high grades in the university entrance exam.
    or
    I got a scholarship as a result of the fact that my grades in the university exam were high.

    But of course, the second example is unnecessarily wordy--unless the whole point of writing it is to demonstrate that you can manipulate words, e.g. in a 'rewrite' test...
     
  12. yokone
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    yokone Member

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    :) Yes Sir, Your reply is completely the answer of what I meant.

    I was just concerned about how to join two sentences with "refer to". But I think I couldn't explain well. That's why you understood that I asked how I could use an independent sentence after period. Of course it doesnt make any sense.

    Anyway thanks alot to all of you...
     

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