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  1. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    A sexting statistic

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Steerpike, Apr 6, 2016.

    I heard this morning that somewhere around 7% of child pornography production charges are brought against teens who took nude pictures of themselves. Anyone else think that's just insane?

    I don't think there should be any charges for that. If someone receives the picture in confidence and then distributes it to others (like classmates), then yes there should be some kind of charge for that behavior (not necessarily child pornography).
     
  2. thirdwind
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    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    I agree with you. I think the intention was to prevent teens from sharing such photos, but this is just ridiculous. It reminds me of a dad who was charged with distributing child porn for posting a picture of his baby taking his first bath.
     
  3. A.M.P.
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    A.M.P. People Buy My Books for the Bio Photo Supporter Contributor

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    =.=

    With that logic, most of our parents sexually abused us by having photo albums full of us waddling around naked and taking baths.
     
  4. Acanthophis
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    Acanthophis ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Contributor

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    Oh god. Families would be turning into organized child pornography syndicates if that was applied everywhere.
     
  5. js58
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    js58 Member

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    Do you know the outcome of those arrests?

    Once the police are notified about potentially indecent images they might be obligated by law or under pressure from the community to press charges. The police might feel that it's better to press charges and let the courts decide what to do next rather than take any risks. It's just a thought.

    Is there anyone from law enforcement on this forum?
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2016
  6. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    Do you remember where you heard that statistic? It seems really unlikely to me, so I'd like to read more about it...
     
  7. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    The number came from a research study by the University of New Hampshire's Crimes Against Children research center.
     
  8. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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  9. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    I can only guess that the reasoning behind that is to nip the problem as close to the stem as possible. I am one of the few translators where I live willing to take projects consisting of extraction reports for texted chats where crimes against minors are transpiring. Sent photos are regularly part of such packages. It's sickening how easily such things occur, and how the information propagates within closed groups of like-minded individuals. It's equally astounding to me that anyone would think it were safe to do this kind of thing given the trail it leaves behind.
     
  10. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    @Wreybies

    That could be part of the reason. I don't agree with the approach, however. You're really going after the victims here. People seem to have a particular desire to attack the victim when it is a girl. I can't tell you how many times I've heard some variation of "if these little sluts don't want their nude photos circulated, they shouldn't take them." The victim had poor judgment at worst (not unusual in teens) and trusted the wrong person.

    I'd approach it differently. From the standpoint of the person taking a photo of themselves, male or female, I think it makes sense to educate them about what can happen when you do such a thing and share the photo - you lose control over the photo, absolutely. If the photo is disseminated beyond the person who it was intended for, then I'd go after that person with some kind of criminal prosecution (I don't know about child porn, though). So you educate teens that taking these photos is a bad idea, and then if you're going to hold a threat of criminal prosecution you do it one step further down the chain, and make it clear that if a person shares an intimate photo with you and you disseminate it to other people, you're going to be in trouble.

    Expression of sexuality is normal for teenagers. Technology has changed, but you can't tell me if this technology was around in the 1920s, the teens of that era wouldn't be doing the same things. I don't think shaming the victims or going after them criminally serves any purpose.

    When it comes to actual child pornographers, who disseminate collections of these photos for that purpose, then throw the book at them under existing child pornography laws.
     
  11. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    I agree with you, of course. I was only surmising as to why this route would be taken. Of course kids from the 1920's would trade dick pics if they had had the technology. We're the same people we've always been. The cases that I handle are not attacking the victim. The minor is definitely the victim in these cases and is being treated as such.

    I agree the approach is bad, but I can also see how a system frustrated with its inability to keep up with the pace of technology and the things that technology allows - things that weren't possible just a decade or two ago, so the law doesn't have mechanisms for it yet - would reach for a blanket treatment of anything that could possibly lead to the kinds of crimes that I see in my work.
     
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  12. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    @Wreybies yeah, I knew you were just putting forth a rationale, not your position. I think you're probably right. The people trying to address this are humans, and a lot of them are parents who find this troubling. I don't think most of them have bad intentions, but the solution is messed up. Part of the problem is we're asking law enforcement and lawmakers to address the problem, and their go-to tool for dealing with things are the criminal statutes. And as it happens, this activity can fall within the plan meaning of a child pornography statute. A quote I've repeated before is "when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail." I think that's a lot of what is going on here.
     
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  13. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    Yep. Exactly this.
     
  14. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    I think the child that takes the picture of theirself should get some kind of punishment, though not something that would be permanent on their record. Some kind of counceling or something. It's hard to have some horny young kid, who gets a naked picture of some girl sent to him on his cell phone, to all of a sudden go to an adult and turn them in or delete it off their phone. The people that are making these laws were once teenagers themselves, do they not remember what it was like? Of course when they were teenagers like me, this kind of technology didn't exist.
     
  15. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    I'd leave that part to the parents. And if the person who receives the pic never shares it with anyone and never tells any adults, then I'm not sure where else it needs to go. My parents did not know everything I did with my girlfriend in high school. Some of this you have to simply recognize as normal human sexuality. The problem really comes into play when the images are disseminated, and that's where I think educating teens can be useful.
     
  16. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    I don't know what was said on the radio, so maybe it was expressed differently there, but the stat from the article is expressed as "7 percent of people arrested on suspicion of child pornography production in 2009 were teenagers who shared images with peers consensually." It doesn't say that the person arrested was the person in the photo.

    (I'm not trying to cast doubt on your story, @Steerpike, just trying to wrap my brain around it).

    So if teen A consensually sent a naked selfie to teen B, and teen B shared it, without or without A's consent, I'm okay with B at least being charged, if not convicted. (I work with teens, and at least where I am the vast majority of charged teens are diverted away from the court system into treatment, community service, targeted education, etc.) If teen A consensually sent a naked selfie to teen B but it wasn't as consensual as you might think because A was being pressured to send the photo or end the relationship, I'm okay with B being charged. Honestly, the whole point of ages of consent is that kids under a certain age can't consent to certain acts, so I can see how this might be a situation in which there's no such thing as consensual sexting.

    Long story short - if the police are involved, this exchange of photos somehow made it outside of the A-B relationship. Maybe they broke up and A wanted the photo back and B said no so A called the cops, maybe A's parents found out and called the cops... whatever. It's hard for me to think of situations where I'd think A should be charged, but not at all hard for me to think of situations where it might be a good idea for B to be taught a serious lesson.

    I don't know that my speculations are the accurate interpretation of the data. But the numbers certainly make more sense to me in this context than in others.
     
  17. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    @BayView the word I'm keying in is "production," as opposed to distributions. Seems to me that would cover the person who took the photo and maybe anyone who enticed them to do it. Guess we would have to look at the statutory definition.
     
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