1. John Carlo

    John Carlo Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Long Island, New York

    whoever vs whomever

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by John Carlo, Sep 23, 2009.

    Okay, here's my sentence:

    "He gathered himself together to make sure he had a look of great calm and poise to whoever it might be."

    I want to say "whomever", but according to the rule I was reading, it goes: he + him = whoever, and him + him = whomever. Plus, Microsoft Word kept marking it off as incorrect during grammar and spell check.

    Any clarification would be much appreciated. The rules somewhat make sense to me, but I'm hoping someone can dumb it down for me.
     
  2. witch wyzwurd

    witch wyzwurd New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Racine, Wisconsin
    So, if you know the rule, what's your question?
     
  3. John Carlo

    John Carlo Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Long Island, New York
    So are there no exceptions? I don't know why but "whoever" just doesn't sound right to me in my sentence. But if that's what it is, then that's what it is.
     
  4. witch wyzwurd

    witch wyzwurd New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Racine, Wisconsin
    I don't know of any other rule.

    For some reason, "whomever" always sounds better to me.
     
  5. arron89

    arron89 Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,442
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    Auckland
    Why would you ever use "whomever"? If there is a legitimate difference, it's certainly not widely known or enforced, so stick to whoever. The only word close to "whomever" I've ever seen used is "whomsoever", which is obviously something different, and whenever it is used is deliberately archaic.
     
  6. Punctuate THIS!

    Punctuate THIS! New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would relate "whomever" to questions of the past. "He gathered himself" is something that relates to the present.
     
  7. Mister Micawber

    Mister Micawber Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2009
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Yokohama
    That's the first time I've heard that. Is that because 'whomever' sounds stilted and old-fashioned nowadays?

    Oh, and how does 'gathered' relate to the present?
     
  8. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    19,150
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Location:
    Coquille, Oregon
    it's easy!... to test which it should be, just substitute 'him' or 'he' for the word...

    so, would you say:

    "He gathered himself together to make sure he had a look of great calm and poise to him.

    or:

    "He gathered himself together to make sure he had a look of great calm and poise to he."

    ...there can clearly be only one correct word...
     
  9. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    36,161
    Likes Received:
    2,827
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    Whoever is the subject form of the pronoun, whomever is the object form. However, most modern usage allows whoever for the object form.
     
  10. witch wyzwurd

    witch wyzwurd New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Racine, Wisconsin
    Here's an example:

    I love whomever.

    (I love her and her).
     
  11. arron89

    arron89 Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,442
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    Auckland
    ^ Whoever works just as well in that example, and doesn't make you sound like you were born in 1770.
     
  12. witch wyzwurd

    witch wyzwurd New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2008
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Racine, Wisconsin
    I'm not concerned with what century it makes me sound like I'm from. It's the rule that matters. Using "whoever" doesn't follow the rule, so it's wrong.
     
  13. arron89

    arron89 Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,442
    Likes Received:
    93
    Location:
    Auckland
    But the rule, if it did exist, has been rendered completely irrelevant by modern usage. Its not even a question. It has been made obsolete. Whoever works just as well in that example, or any other sentence, therefore whomever has fallen out of usage.
     
  14. Punctuate THIS!

    Punctuate THIS! New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    If whomever is an antiquated notion then its meaning reflects upon the past. Its just like using an older style to gain historic value, even if its only for a specific instance.
     
  15. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    19,150
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Location:
    Coquille, Oregon
    some people still do use the 'correct' form, 'whomever' when called for, but it's no longer de rigueur due to common usage having blurred the line between the two and made 'whoever' more universally acceptable...
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice