1. stormcat
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    stormcat Active Member

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    A symbol for Justice and the shape of Evil

    Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by stormcat, Jul 1, 2015.

    In my story, the Bad guys want everything to be white, so they use white banners. The good guys know not everything can be white and they use blue banners to mark the time the bad guys tried to change to color of the oceans and failed. But I feel that's not enough for my story. I want to use a drawable, abstract symbol to further identify each faction. Something you could put on a flag and identify it. After all, the plain white flag is one of surrender, and my Bad guys don't want that.

    I was thinking for the bad guys some form of a weapon cross. It could be two different weapons crossed (Like the communist hammer and sickle), or the same weapons crossed (like maybe two blades). but If this symbol is going to appear absolutely everywhere alongside the white banners, it has to be relatively simple to duplicate.

    The Duplication problem also exists for the good guys. This symbol of Peace and unity must be easy for anyone to draw it out. For these guys, I have no clue what I'm going to use. Can someone help me decide?
     
  2. izzybot
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    izzybot Human Disaster Contributor

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    If I were you I'd look into heraldry to get some idea for fairly simplistic designs like that. See what's been used before, what you could come up with based off of it.

    Think about what symbols the people in your world use. Like, we tend to think of doves and olive branches as symbols of peace, so when designing peaceful stuff we might employ them. Your baddies might pick something that represents their ideals (though if they're a primarily militaristic group, crossed weapons would still make sense) within the cultural logic, while the good guys might pick something that directly opposes them. Say the bad guys pick cats, so the good guys pick dogs, or whatever. The good guys might also draw off some past event, like you've got them doing with the blue flag - align themselves with an older righteous faction and use their symbol, or something like that.

    Also, I just have to - a symbol for justice?

    [​IMG]
     
  3. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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  4. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    For the good guys it will depend on your story. The blue, for example, sounds like it fits well For me it might be something like the science symbol for the atom but that might not fit your story at all.

    [​IMG]


    I think the best ideas will come from your story for both the good and evil sides.
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  5. stormcat
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    stormcat Active Member

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    I think I have an Idea for the good guy's flag, but I want to know what you all think.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    Ow. Color vibration insanity. You'll notice how each point of the star looks a little blue? Bring the blue way back.
     
  7. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Have you tried looking at the flags of the countries to try to get an idea?

    http://www.photius.com/flags/alphabetic_list.html
     
  8. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    Okay, the bad guys want everything to be white.

    Is this symbolic? Or like they have collected all the cans of white paint!

    I have seen a show where a character literally painted his clothes white. So I got to ask. lol

    Personally I think of they want symbolic white. Then the flag should be symbolic white. What is white mean to them? If not symbolic then I got no clue. Hard for me to wrap my head around it if they really do just want to paint everything white. lol Plus they probably would want a pure white flag. Be funny because they probably wouldn't even realize the implication of surrender.
     
  9. stormcat
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    stormcat Active Member

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    They want everything to be "pure". They believe that white things are pure, and do resort to painting everything they can white. Problem is, they are well aware of the white banner meaning surrender. That's why they need a symbol.
     
  10. stormcat
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    stormcat Active Member

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    I have, but this flag isn't a flag of any real nation.
     
  11. izzybot
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    izzybot Human Disaster Contributor

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    Is this a fantasy world (not in the high fantasy or medieval fantasy sense, just 'fantastical' as in not taking place on our version of Earth)? If so, white flags don't need to signify surrender in their world. Just a thought.
     
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  12. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    Now white = pure. I get that.
    But they think painting something white makes it pure? Eh, that just ..... sorry I can't wrap my mind around that. Are they crazy?
    If actually painting things white to purify them is a thing. I think the only way to go here IS the pure white flag, because it seems like what they would do. I would then use it as a joke. Having them try to argue the merit of purity when someone asks if they are giving up.

    Personally if the white painting as extreme as my post implies. Then I would go in one of two directions.
    1. A symbol of purity
    2. Two colors, like black and white. White being them, and black being there mission. Like a white circles surrounded by black. The symbol being that they are striving for a white flag but as long as impurity exist they cannot have it. So the black symbols what they want to destroy.
     
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  13. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Maybe just paint a white "X" on the flags? It's easy and fast to do.
     
  14. stormcat
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    stormcat Active Member

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    Yes, they are crazy. But I suppose small amounts of grey or black could be used for things like writing things down. Frankly I'd rather go with the grey. I even suppose light pastels could work too, if they were light enough.

    They still need a tangible symbol. Something that could be carved in (white of course) stone, if not placed on a flag. I was thinking a corruption of the christian cross. But so many churches use so many variations of the cross it'll be hard to find a unique one for myself. Maybe some other instrument of torture and death.
     
  15. izzybot
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    izzybot Human Disaster Contributor

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    Ehhh, it feels unlikely that they'd use an instrument of torture or death without some reason. Like, afaik Christianity uses the cross and crucifix to represent the sacrifice and love represented by Jesus, not just because it looks super metal :p If you group have a similar martyr figure that'd make sense. Or, if they want to emphasize that they'll stop at nothing to achieve their goals, sure - but torture wouldn't really fit the bill there IMO. They're probably be more into quick, efficient deaths.

    Your mention of carving it into things reminds me of the thief guild markings in Skyrim. Stuff like this look right?

    [​IMG]
    The 'empty', 'guild', and 'safe' ones are especially simple. Plain geometric shapes and whatnot. You could try just sketching out some random squares, circles, triangle and such, see what you can come up with.
     
  16. Ivana
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    Ivana Contributing Member

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    Bad guys flag: Grey surface with a simple white circle in the middle (symbolizes the rise of their "purity" from the grey and dirtiness of the world).
    Good guys flag: Your flag, only color the star in blue and change the blue field into white (symbolizes the victory of blue color and their ideas over insane whiteness).
     
  17. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    In the 60's Blacks used it as a symbol of justice, togetherness, and freedom.
     
  18. heist1
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    heist1 New Member

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    What is their motive to paint everything white? I understand they want everything be pure, but what do they gain from it?

    Is the story meant to represent anything to do with race?
     
  19. stormcat
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    stormcat Active Member

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    White has basically always been associated with purity. The desire to paint everything white is to show just how powerful the cult (and by extension, their god) is.

    Race does play a role in the story, but it works a little diffrently. You are judged based on how white your skin is, rather than your ansestry. An Albino person of african descent would be considered "Purer" than a tan person of european descent. However, since most of my characters are white anyway, it's not really that important.

    I just want to illustrate that the obsession the cult has with purity will be their downfall.
     
  20. stormcat
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    stormcat Active Member

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    I'm not really feeling the whole blue star thing. I don't want my good guys to use any white at all on their flag, so I'm using gold instead.

    Also, I need something slightly more complex than a circle for the bad guys. A circle could mean anything. I want a distinct shape that all may see and associate with the bad guys of my novel.
     
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  21. jannert
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    jannert Contributing Member Supporter Contributor

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    Well, there is always a rainbow of colours for the good guys. I know it's got symbolic significance in today's world, but why not? Colours project diversity and encompass life, don't they? I can't think of anything better, really, and it would certainly show up against just about any background. And rainbows symbolise hope ...what appears after a storm, etc. Flags often display cliched symbols.

    As for your 'bad guys.' Why do they favour white? If you explore that idea ...why white? ...then you might come up with a relevant symbol (or even shape) of the flag they choose.

    This is actually your story, and only you really know what is needed here. I'd maybe dig in deeper to what your story is about. The answers will be there for you, if you look hard enough.
     
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  22. stormcat
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    stormcat Active Member

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    I really don't want to use rainbows. They're too tied up in gay pride and little girls toys.

    Though in my research I noticed that most of the groups that opposed nazis had flower names. The Edelweiss pirates, the white rose, maybe a flower could be a good symbol. But how do I pick just one?

    Here's the basic story for the bad guys:

    A long time ago the ruling family was corrupt. Not corrupt as in taking bribes and offing political enemies, but morally corrupt. They held orgies in parliament, drinking contests in public, they had no restraint and even the most open-minded frat boy would admit they were taking things too far. After all, the royal family had a newborn heir (who was actually fathered by the king and borne by his wife) to look out for.

    There were groups who thought the royals behavior was simply unacceptable. Some were sensible, One particularly extreme group called for modesty, purity, and righteousness. If you can't already tell, these are the antagonists of my story. They basically took over all the other groups and formed a political party. Now the Heir wasn't being raised by his parents, so this group planted a nanny to lecture him on "Purity" and teach him the ways of the cultish group she represented. The King and Queen were too busy boozin' and partyin' to notice anything amiss until too late.

    Now, many years later, the Heir has become king. He has appointed officials from the cult to all high-ranking positions and allowed their "righteousness" to dictate his rule. He demanded everything be painted white (something the cult didn't originally do but they agreed with the symbolism of the matter) and anyone who failed to do so would be executed. The New King still hates his parents and their bacchanalian ways, and tries to force everyone in the kingdom to be as rigid and unforgiving as the cult demands.
     
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  23. jannert
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    jannert Contributing Member Supporter Contributor

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    I can understand why you don't want to use rainbows ... they have so many connotations. But if your bad guys are clinging to pure white, as a statement about resisting temptation, I think if your good guys have a very colourful flag, that will certainly be a contrast, and make the point that life is full of colour, and trying to pretend it isn't is denying reality. You could make a colourful flag USING all the colours of the rainbow, without actually making it a rainbow, or stripes, or anything like that. But anyway, it's your choice. I do believe this is the kind of writer question that boils down to what you want to convey in your story. I don't think any of us can answer it for you. Spend some time working on WHY there would be certain symbolism in the different flags, and that should lead you to your answer. And very good luck!
     
  24. stormcat
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    stormcat Active Member

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    I guess what I really want to convey is that The all-encompassing whiteness isn't as all-encompassing as the cult believes it is. Like the story I had about attempting to turn the ocean white that didn't work. You can use white clouds to blot out the sky, but the seas bow to no master.

    Basically, I want the symbol's message to be "You cannot remove us". I was thinking about the symbolism of a sprout in the sidewalk crack. A tiny act of nature's rebellion. A symbol to show that the artificial whiteness cannot and will not consume the world as long as someone is willing to put up a fight. I'd like a plant symbol, but any symbol of nature's power will do.
     

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