Advice on Writing Insanity

Okay, well I apologize if I was offended by outdated and insulting terminology. In the future I will remember that derogatory terms, when used in general and not intended to be insulting, are perfectly okay.

 

None of us used any terminology that is derogatory or insulting, it is your personal opinion that it is so.
Lots of things can be stated in an insulting and non-insulting way, for example: "This person is passive aggressive" can be said with mockery, or intent to shame someone who is annoying us, or it can be a true statement with no ulterior motives, meant to describe a character. The term "passive aggressive" therefore is not primarily insulting of outdated, but it can become so depending on the context.

I have given examples to show that "maddness" does not automatically mean mental illness, and vice versa, so you are wrong to ask of us to use that term to describe this particular mental state. Furthermore, I object to the value judgements you are passing on all of us who contributed to this discussion constructively.
No apologies needed, but I would just like to clarify.

 

I have some.....'experience' in that field, feel free to PM me if you have any questions about certain states of mental illness etc.

 

Thank you again everyone for your input, it really does mean a great deal to me. I should be PMing some of you shortly.

Oh, and shadowwalker, I am only going to ask this once and only once. If this topic offends you so, please kindly refrain from replying in the future. If you are unable to offer me advice without being sarcastic or snarky, then please don't reply at all. If you continue to do so, I will report you to the administrator. I maybe new to this particular forum, but I am not new to forums as a whole. If you are trying to prove a point, then do so politely. I can respect you and your opinion if you treat me with the same respect, but if you find you cannot give an answer without being snarky, then please, as I said before, refrain from doing so.

 

Well, as I said, I'll bear in mind that 'intent' is the over-riding factor in terminology. I'm sure my friends who are non-Caucasian, non-hetero, and of various ethnic and religious backgrounds will understand as well. We're just being over-sensitive and judgmental...

 

Wow I obviously never said that, it would take some twisted imagination to read that into my actual words, but hey, each to their own

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. Honestly, I thought I had made it clear when I first posted this topic that I wasn't trying to discuss mental illness to begin with. If I wanted said character to be bipolar, I would have researched bipolar disorder. At least everyone else here who has posted had been kind and helpful and to them I am beyond grateful and if I could, I would hug you.

 

@shadowwalker - speaking as someone who can be classed as Mentally Ill (I have Bipolar type 1) I can safely say I was not offended by the original post, or by the words 'madness' or 'insane' at all. Sure, they might not be the words I pick to describe myself when at parties, but I don't see anything inherently offensive in them. Now if you are speaking for yourself, or on behalf of someone you know well then I understand; but there is no reason to be so passionate.

 

I also have a mental illness. And there are a great many people I know personally and well with mental illnesses who are tired of the jokes and the casual tossing around of these terms. But what is most aggravating to me is that when this was pointed out - politely - it was ignored. Indeed, suddenly I was the bad guy. And to say that "madness" does not refer to someone with a mental illness - really? That's like saying 'colored' does not refer to black people, and that of course, no offense was intended so there's no reason to stop using 'colored'.

It doesn't offend you. Well and good. The fact that it is offensive to others should have, in polite company, been enough to use the proper terms.

 

Where did this come from - Aside from jazzabel? I don't understand why you mention this in a reply to me. All I'm really doing is asking you to clam down - and believe me, I've heard some of the jokes too so I sympathize.

 

I think you need to calm down a bit. No one meant it in an offensive way. Even if you found it offensive that doesn't change that fact that it wasn't meant that way. Personally I think that blown out of proportion political correctness is just absurd. Sure some things are unacceptable, but I don't think there's anything wrong with the term mad or insane. If no one ever said mad or insane again and just used mentally ill then within a few months mentally ill would be an insult and we'd have to come up with a new term. That's what always happens. Terms like idiot, and moron used to medical terminology but someone got worked up over them so no they're insulting. If people just calmed down about such things then perhaps we could just keep the same terminology instead of turning them into insults and creating a continually expanding repertoire of slurs.

 

First of all, thank you everyone for defending me on this topic.

I'm happy to see that most of you understood what my intentions were and saw that I meant no harm. If any of us are to grow as writers, aren't we allowed to ask questions such as the one I asked? Sometimes we get a better understanding of something by asking questions that may seem controversial to some, but harmless to others. How are we supposed to learn anything if we don't ask these questions, not just as writers, but as people as well. If I could, I would give everyone one of you a giant hug along with a piece of cake of your choice. You have no idea how much it means to me that you're all helping me creatively and as a person.

 

I have no doubt it was not intended to be insulting - it was ignorance of the facts that caused the usage. However, once informed that people with mental illnesses do, overall, find such terms insulting and derogatory, I find it hard to understand why anyone would insist on continuing the use. I suppose you think n***** and W*P and Sp*k are all slurs only because someone over-reacted as well, and there's no reason why anyone should get upset about their usage.

I just find it strange, as this is the first forum where this sort of thing has come up against such staunch opposition. Most people I've discussed this with are more than happy to learn. I guess in this case I've done the learning - and it doesn't leave a very good taste in my mouth.

 

Good lord. Could you be more sarcastic? I can practically hear it as I read.

See, the problem is you weren't polite. You very clearly called my friend a bigot when I can assure you she is not in any way, shape or form. All you had to say was "Would you please not use the term insane. I know it's not upsetting to others but it is to me." And then calmly back down when people said they didn't think it was a problem. But you didn't.

I have three mental illnesses (Disthymia, OCD, and an anxiety disorder) and the term doesn't bother me, simply because I'm not insane (Even if I act that way sometimes to be silly). True insanity does exist. It may have other medical terms but if someone talks to the voices in their head, among other things they are pretty much insane. It takes many forms. If insanity didn't exist it wouldn't be in the dictionary. Would you prefer the character be described as crazy? Because I have seen and known pa-LENTY of people who I would describe as crazy (People who go bungie jumping boggle my mind, for example. I've seen those cords snap and it wasn't pretty.).

I don't know if you were picked on a lot growing up (I was, but different people handle torment in different ways.) or just had some bad experiences or what, but you are far too sensitive. And replying with sarcasm instead of well thought out, calm replies isn't helping your case any. Take a deep breath, count to ten and relax.

 

I have a brother with what could truly be classified as insanity or madness. He's got schizoaffective disorder, complete with hallucinations. HE is not offended by such terms. And if he is not medicated properly would agree that things digress to madness. The fact is, that yes, mental illness is treatable and that people can live normal lives, but ONLY if it is treated. The original poster is doing character research. He's not going to finalize a product with descriptions like "the insane man b the tree".

And yes, original poster, you may feel free to PM me if you like.

 

So far as I know those terms weren't originally medical terminology. People are only pointing out that those are legitimate terms and that they have every right to use them. What if I told you that I found the word small offensive because I'm short (caused by an actual medical problem at that.). Would you never use the word small again on this forum?

 

*clicks the like button*

Very well put.

 

Uh...

Oh, my.

I wasn't nearly as offended by the generic "madness" idea as ShadowWalker was, and I'm confident that you didn't intend it offensively, but I do think that there's an issue there. Telling ShadowWalker that daring to be offended and to communicate the fact that she's offended, is an offense, strikes me as seriously backwards.

ChickenFreak

 

I know you aren't really looking for symptoms, but I can't help but think you're looking for psychoses, where thoughts and emotions are so impaired that they've actually lost touch with reality. A person can have a delusion, that they are God, a white man can believe he is black, etc. Paranoia is a type of delusion that makes a person think that someone is plotting against them, to kill them, steal something from them, dethrone them from their position at work, etc.

Hallucinations, on the other hand, are where a person thinks they percieve something that is not there. That they can feel alien microchips under their skin, that

Your best bet is picking a delusion, hallucination, or a few of both and thinking how YOU would respond to them. What would you do if you thought you were God, or if aliens had microchips in your skin? You can easily find lists of delusions and illusions online, especially on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucination

Also, violent behavior is NOT common with mental disorders we would think of as "true madness." People who have antisocial personality disorder or conduct disorder show signs of violence, but people with things like dissociative identity disorder (a.k.a. multiple personality disorder) and schizophrenia are rarely violent. Media likes to show their violent side, but in reality it is practically non-existent. I've worked with schizoprhenics before, and they are extremely docile, especially on their meds. Unmedicated schizophrenic people are more of a danger to themselves than to anyone else.

However, you don't want to get too into fitting your character with the research out there on a specific disorder, because (to be honest) we haven't been able to figure them out yet. We think we know what schizophrenia is, but there is still a huge debate on what it exactly is. Schizotypal is a "real" disorder, but professionals can barely agree when to diagnose it or not. Give the same patient to four professionals, and it is very possible they will diagnose four different things.

BTW I'm getting my doctorate in Psychology. Not saying that makes the the expert of everything, but I do learn this stuff in classes.

 

Well, more of an expert than me, and I've worked in the field LOL. And more of an expert than my husband (don't tell him I said so) who's been working in the field far longer than me and has a masters in it. LOL.

 

I know several people with mental illnesses who are far from delusional. I also know someone whose delusional and dysfunctional, but has no mental illnesses, unless you count an overblown ego. In short, insanity/madness is a lay term that can be used to describe certain delusional states that are part of the spectrum of mental illnesses, but there are enough mentally ill people who show no signs of delusion/insanity/madness.

So could we put the semantic issue at rest?

 

You should read Shutter Island by Dennis Lehane. The movie is worth seeing too, but you don't get all of the atmosphere present in the books. I don't want to give away too much to those who haven't read it, but it is a great atmospheric book that takes place in an isolated 1950's mental institution.

 

As yet another mentally ill person in this forum (and someone who's studied/worked with those w/ mental illness as well), I wasn't personally offended by the use of "mad." Mostly because I don't think of it as a derogatory term for mental illness. A person who goes mad may not even be mentally ill, necessarily; it's not a technical term or diagnosis.

Of course, someone has every right to be offended by the use of a term they see as derogatory and to express that feeling on this forum, so I don't see the need to threaten someone for that. Ideally, this feeling would be expressed civilly followed by a "my bad, didn't mean to offend," and then we'd move on.

 

Look @shadowalker, I am pretty upset that you keep deliberately misquoting me, in order to support your opinion. It's pathetic.
After you demanded that we use the term "mental illness" instead of "madness", I said that not everyone who is mad has mental illness - there are plenty of phyiscal illnesses which can cause "madness" ie. bizarre behaviours with complete lack of insight where person loses touch with reality. And I also said, not everyone with mental illness has "madness" - most mentally ill people are perfectly in touch with reality and therefore - not "mad".
I can see that you have a particular dislike for this term, but you are being aggressive and ignorant, attacking anyone who disagrees. Please stop doing it, it is really annoying.

 

Wait... I'm very confused now. I missed this before.

I thought that your position was that it's OK to use the terms "mad" and "insane" to describe mental illness. Are you now saying that what people have classically called madness, and what people now call mental illness, are completely unrelated?

I don't think that there's any substantial likelihood that that is what you're saying, but I can't figure out another way to interpret the above. Can you clarify?

ChickenFreak