1. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    Alien but not alien!

    Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by GuardianWynn, Jan 14, 2016.

    I recently been thinking about an idea. My universe does have characters planet hopping from other worlds. So there are aliens. Except most aliens look human like. I am wondering if anyone calls bullshit to the reasoning I am using.

    It is notable to say, that my world has magic. Magic is like soul's energy source. Part of the premise is the soul holds the mind and that items like the brain are just a tool the mind uses.

    Because of this, the premise is that a soul find the shape of a human to be the most effective. So other planets, regardless of how they start, all move towards humans. I think of it like a funnel. Life has many possible beginnings but only one ending.

    So, what do you guys think?
     
  2. Wolfmaster1234
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    Wolfmaster1234 Member

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    Well a lot of alien races are quite humanlike in fiction. I have thought before isn't it possible that if a planet has similiar conditions couldn't life develop in a similiar way. Your talking about aliensand magic so I assume it's a kind of science fantasy piece your working on so scientific accuracy isn't important so I don't see why your idea wouldn't be fine. Out of interest when you say human-like how exactly human-like to you mean?
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016
  3. The Mad Regent
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    The Mad Regent Contributing Member

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    Actually, any intelligent life within the universe would be very human, or have human features at least. The reasoning behind this is that nature is "universal", it works the same no matter what planet you're on. However, some alien beings may be more evolved than others, or may inhibit characteristics shaped by their environment. The stereotype "grey" alien is a good example of this. It has all the appendages a human being has (head, legs, arms), but they different in some ways: they're more frail, which suggests weaker gravity; they have large black eyes, which suggests they live on a planet close to a star, or maybe even subterranean; and they have small noses, mouths, and ears suggesting that they've developed an extra sensory such as telepathy, meaning their original sensors become less relevant and diminish over time.

    They're my thoughts, anyway.
     
  4. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    Yeah, the question is more, does this hit your "bullshit" button?

    And well.

    I have three drawn aliens.

    My current avatar(can't show the full picture publically)

    http://andromon1217.deviantart.com/art/Jessica-Nervous-About-Her-Date-Color-406091402

    http://andromon1217.deviantart.com/art/Evil-Kerrin-Color-567227929

    Yeah that makes sense, though I wouldn't have been able name any of those things before you mentioned them. I am not especially good at this. To be clear too. I am not against having aliens that are more unique looking. Rather, I am saying that by law of numbers. Earth exists, thus Earth-like is common, and as such many near Earth like place/people exist. Again, does that hit your bullshit button?

    Actually in the previous example picture. I developed some traits for both off them. Kind of.

    Kerrin, for example. I developed her world to some degree. Which is a largely forest planet. Very low on tech(her outfit she picked up after planet hoping). That they didn't have or hadn't learned how to make things like gun powder or use electricity. Biologically, she isn't that different internally or externally than a normal human. But her species life span is much longer.

    Jessica is a bit the reverse. I developed her species more than her. Oh fun question! She was born on Earth(Alien refuugess!) and her parents were born on Earth too, but her grand parents were not. Would you consider her an "alien?" I always get a different answer to that question. Genetically, she has two main differences from a human. So I have wondered what her planet was like to create such differences.

    In her case, she has much better hearing, actually she can control the frequencies she can ear. She can move her inner ear, it is a completely voleenteer piece of her body and she can become sensensitive to different fequencies or block them out all together.

    Her other trait is her legs. She is able to run very fast. Not like the flash(faster movement normal steps) but as in her legs are strong enough to support very powerful gallops and as such she is more than capible of keeping up with a car. In my head I picture just a harsh mountain like terrian that required her race to have a lot of power to walk normally and now on a flat terrian it is just so much easier to run at high speeds.

    So what do you think?
     
  5. The Mad Regent
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    The Mad Regent Contributing Member

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    As far as sci-fi fantasy fiction goes, it's perfectly acceptable.

    The key is to know why as well as what. I wouldn't say the how is as important, but it could be useful to understand some of it for descriptive purposes.

    Edit: for example, the girl with the ears that pick up bizarre frequencies, we know what she has, but why does she have it? Something about her planet? Her race? A kind of discipline they're taught from birth? Seems like you have a solid brainstorm plan going, though, so it'll come together after some staring at the wall and a trip to the kettle.

    And would I consider her an alien? Yes. Humans come in various races, for lack of a better word, but we are still humans, nonetheless. She, however, isn't human, and is therefore an alien.
     
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  6. Sack-a-Doo!
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    Sack-a-Doo! Contributing Member Contributor

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    Makes sense to me. It's like picking the right vehicle for a particular job, a 4x4 to go outbacking, a limo to go to the Oscars.
     
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  7. Cave Troll
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    Cave Troll Bite the bullet, do your own thing. Contributor

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    In Frank Herbert's Dune universe the 'Aliens' are just humans with radical cultures and ideals. So yes you can just have 'alien' humans. And it had 'magical' elements to it as well as Sci-Fi. :p
     
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  8. Inks
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    Inks Contributing Member

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    Avoiding the long arguments about the humanoid form in my setting, think about the advantages of bipedal beings. Whether you are going with a divine aspect or not, knowing the form makes asserting the normalcy of humanoid aliens easier.
     
  9. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    I am confused. Could you elaborate please?
     
  10. Inks
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    Inks Contributing Member

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    Sure. In my setting, the divines arose in the universe with a specific intention and ideal upon which their figures would be based. The bipedal humanoid figure is considered one of the divine templates, the main reason given was essentially "divine mathematics". Put another way, the humanoid figure has many beautiful patterns, measurements and proportions that conifer both natural and mathematical beauty. Or to make a simple statement - the human form is inherently beautiful in design.

    It was this concept that was the basis upon which the divinities made alterations and modifications that pulled away from the normal "human" appearance and towards their own standards. Of three distinctly "human" species, the differences can be physically small and yet great. Specifically, one of the species has women which cannot be physically raped - a deliberate modification by a divine to protect her children (against themselves). While it gets complex after this point, the general notion is that the very similar looking women are not human, that they are something "different". While not from other "Worlds" per say, the souls of these different beings are treated as distinctly non-human and the value of their very lives are weighed differently by actual humans.

    Each side dehumanizes the other despite having the same form and same blood - the minor differences are treated as an "us vs them" situation because the most stark difference is the inability for one to be sexually exploited.
     
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  11. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    That seems very interesting in the social comentary department. :D

    Beyond that, it sounds like my idea does not strike your bullshit button. About right?

    As a funny paralell(I swear I will never remember how to spell that word right.) In my world. The Onkyuo(being the blond girl in the above pic) were treated harshly for their differences, which prompted them to hide their true nature. Since both of there notable differences are things they can use at will. They hide, giving up their unique nature in order to be accepted. I am guessing you find that interesting. Am I right?
     
  12. Inks
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    Inks Contributing Member

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    It is not bullshit to me because the very nature of "human" is not something I find limited to a form and I believe that knowledge and a way of life transcends biological drives. Even from chimpanzee studies like with Lucy, there is evidence that some change occurs. It shows that there is a different concept of "human" that is independent of our physical forms. My WIP may definitely be philosophical, but makes clear the differences in body, mind and spirit as a key foundation. The matter of spirit is perhaps one of the more complex ones, but it owes to a nature that is decided before one is born and goes to reflect on physical or mentally flawed beings as still being of sound spirit. (So your work hits upon the matter of "spirit" to me in a way.)

    So Onkyuo make sacrifices for happiness? It is fairly common and it is part of what I consider a very human trait, whereby an ability or aspect is purposely hidden so that they can be more comfortable in a community. While certainly an acquired behavior, it is one that is very interesting to me - since I like to explore those who make sacrifices for the benefit of others. True altruism is rare, but it does exist and goes against every biological predisposition or logical rationale. Giving definition to these traits and natures is part of the fun, but it is also why people figure I am hopelessly obsessed about philosophy and states of being...

    I'd read it. I prefer to be challenged and given compelling insights when I read - that is fun to me.
     
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  13. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    :D

    Now you are making me think about my alien girl! Would you like to discuss her and stuff in general further in a PM? :D Also you are awesome!
     
  14. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    I don't really like your idea that all these aliens are going to gravitate towards being human like, that is if I'm understanding what you are saying. I think it is like any other evolutionary thing, their appearance is going to depend on the environment of their planet. So before you go drawing what your "aliens" are going to look like, I think you are going to have to do some major world building and see what it is going to take for the inhabitants to sustain life on the planet.
     
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  15. Inks
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    Inks Contributing Member

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    @GuardianWynn - Sure.

    @Lewdog - In pure Sci-fi that could easily handled with a "seed project" if there needs to be a description. I went in a different direction, but that is why settings with magic can pull the divine influence card without much trouble. There are so many ways in which it can be resolved. Unnatural or guided growth is not restricted to intelligent design either. There are some good works which hypothesize that our intelligence was spawned from our "form" that is both weak and adaptable, and the those creators often postulate that understanding of the natural order or even the physical composition of our beings is beyond mere chance.
     
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  16. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Nah, we are who we are because it makes since for the types of lives we live and our environment. Humans used to have tails, but they were useless to us and we no longer have them. Having 6 fingers is actually a dominant trait for humans as well, but it rarely happens. I guess it comes down to whether the OP wants to have something that makes sense, or if they just want to be lazy and go with the "well because it's magic!" business.
     
  17. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    :D I love opinions! Yeah, that is what I am saying, but not purely. I am not saying that 100% of planets end up like us, but a large percentage.

    It isn't quite as easy as going back to the drawing board and editing them/waiting to draw them until I have more detail. Part of the point is that some of them can blend in with us. Take the example I was talking to Ink about. The point of that character is that she is an alien that genetically looks like a human and that her species came here after damage to her home world. Her race is being treated poorly, so they are hidding the fact they are different.

    This idea requires her to be different, or an alien but look like a human.

    But overal I was asking if this hits anyones bullshit button. Which it sounds like it hits yours. But that is fine. Truth be told. I am surprised it took this long to get someone that reacted that way.

    Funny enough, it is I think both lazy and not lazy. In a sense yes. I am saying. Magic has done this, but I gave a reason for magic to do it. In this case being that evolution in real life works a certain way. I am saying when you add an element such as the energy that is known as magic, that evolution reacts differently. So it isn't a magic win button. It is magic existing causing a genetic change. I mean, is that really lazy? Thanks again for your opinion. :)
     
  18. Inks
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    Lewdog and I may disagree, but only because I can easily understand magic as an arcanum or ill-defined science. The hole in Lewdog's logic is the general weakness of the physical structure of the human form and yet a collection of highly specific genes to facilitate adaptation and provide communicative abilities that allow expression. One of the more curious aspects has been the rise of artwork when it made little sense, what is the evolutionary advantage of producing decoration?

    The suspension of disbelief is allowed in fictional works, but I assure you that anyone who has rewritten history will also see how frequently "facts" change.
     
  19. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Decoration? Originally artwork was to show history and how people lived. Expression and vanity is just human elements, not evolutionary aspects.
     
  20. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    Sniffles. You didn't reply to my reply to you. :cry:

    Gonna feel bad if you were just typing up a long message this whole time.
     
  21. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Well let me put it this way, if you want there to be a planet of shapeshifters that do so through magic, then so be it. That is how you want to write your story. But I think it is unreasonable to have multiple planets that all have humanoid inhabitants.
     
  22. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    Funny enough, magic can't allow someone to change there apperance in the way you are thinking. Technically, I had one case sort of like that. The current explanation is she used magic to take control of involentary processes, such as cell growth, and forcible grew body parts. She did so to regrow a lost arm. She also grew bones on the outside of her body to act as armor, but obvously this is not what I think you mean when you say shape shifter.

    But then again. Like I said. I was curious to see if people called bullshit. Which is fine. I am not trying to change your position.

    Thank you for your imput :)
     
  23. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    How is what you are saying as far as forcible cell growth not shape shifting? And where is there a rule that says magic can't be used to change someone's appearance? Doesn't the Evil Queen in Snow White use magic to shape shift herself? I'm sure there are many other examples of this as well.
     
  24. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    Oh I forgot to mention timeframe. It took my girl, like a month to regrow her arm. I figured when you or other people thing shape shifting, you think like, five minutes. lol. Also I did mention it as an example of shape shifting in my world, but so far only one person was able to do that. lol. She is awesome though! She is my avatar too!

    Well, I am not writing snow white fan fiction. I am writing my own unique story set in a world I designed, the world I call the order.

    In the universe, the order, magic is a system of rules and laws that work in a specific way, and none of those rules allow for someone to change there apperance suddenly like the queen in snow white. So no one can. Also, no healing magic exists either. Beyond the prementioned girl that took over her cell regeneration to regrow a lost limb.
     
  25. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    I never said you were writing snow white fan fiction. I just thought it odd that you were mentioning rules of magic that a person can't change their appearance with magic. So what I don't understand now from what you have just said, is if your girl is going to break the rule about using magic to heal herself, then why wouldn't she use magic to changer appearance?
     

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