Suppose this is a bit OT as well, but since porn and prostitution are quite closely intertwined as subjects, I hope the discussion can take one more for the team: [MENTION=54840]IronPalm[/MENTION]I'm leaning towards that viewpoint as well, but although I've done some research on the subject, I haven't yet seen enough evidence to convince me one way or another. Legalization has its problems too for one simple reason: greed. Every so often some previously squeaky clean big shot is revealed to be a corrupt asshole (be it a CEO of a multinational, a politician, or whomever), so it'd be no surprise such people would find their way into legalized prostitution as well, because it would likely be a big money maker, just like legalized drug trade. The vision of government-sanctioned brothels where the only workers are those who truly want to work as prostitutes and where they would be treated justly and well is, as I see it right now, a bit naive (not that anyone here is claiming such a perfect system would even be possible, but still...). Corruption reaches so deep in so many governments, including western ones, I have no doubts that even the system of legalized prostitution would likely be abused by some of the people running the would be -legal rings. That means there's a danger that we might just give an old problem a facelift, nothing more. Right now I don't see good choices here, just bad and worse. I'm just not yet sure which is which.
[MENTION=53329]T.Trian[/MENTION]: the only way I see prostitution legalised is to be fully legal, and for girls to be able to get together, brothels or private enterprises, and to pay taxes and have occupational health reviews and the rest of it. I worked with the underbelly of the society before, and I have never met a prostitute who was happy to be doing it. I met some expensive call girls who pursued that voluntarily, but they were all, without exception, using drugs and alcohol in order to go through with the calls. The sober ones are very rare, and extremely expensive (this is the highest echelon that permeates modelling and acting world, and there are lists of girls who receive offers and then they are headhunted, but understandably, they won't be doing it often and some of them never do it. But quite a few do, and models are often requested to be company at rich men's parties, as a regular part of their job). These girls can get upwards of 20 grand a night, and I'm talking very well known names, but the discretion is so high that only if you are privy to that particular enterprise, you'll know about it. The only relatively good stories I'm aware of are when a girl finds a man who wants to keep her as a mistress, then he puts her up in a condo or whatever, but even that, let me tell you, the girls ALWAYS feel like used piece of trash. There's something about the act of paying for such an intimate experience that disturbs the balance of power so severely, that girls are just bought goods to be discarded afterwards, so men are far from careful, in fact, most of them enjoy this very power imbalance, and also, use the girls to play out sick fantasises. And the girls are all victims in this, even though most of them don't live thinking that but if you get a chance to have heart to heart with any of them, they all tell the same story. This made me realise that it is just one of those things that will never go away because girls have an easy way to make lots of money, and some of them turn to it in time of desperation, but they always end up self-loathing and completely messed up afterwards. Maybe men, who don't know how it is to be penetrated (some do, but most don't) don't quite understand how violating that feels, in certain situations (prostitution, rape, porn etc). I was all for legalisation of prostitution until I met them, and since then, I'm convinced that only if they are completely in charge of their business and finances and health, it can work out. But streetwalkers, the sick, drugged, most messed up, will always remain on the street, because the only way for them to earn anything is to give up their bodies for abuse. And unfortunately, most girls who start at the top, in a few years time end up on the street. From that perspective, it's a very far cry from the "sacred whores" in ancient India who were high priestesses and willingly educated and initiated men into the art of sex in their temples. Very far cry from that indeed.
[MENTION=35110]jazzabel[/MENTION], yeah, that's how it should be, i.e. if it's legalized, it should be fully legalized and the girls should have... I guess you could call it autonomy of their bodies? And there should be armed guards watching every act through security cameras in case a customer gets violent or otherwise harms the girl etc. I know most men wouldn't like that idea, being watched by another dude while you're having sex, but then again, it's about time the customers made some concessions for the benefit of the girls. But... I just can't believe that would ever happen except in some isolated instances. Some places would remain the cess pools they are today, most would probably fall somewhere in-between these two extremes. What I'm wondering about is which is worse: keeping prostitution illegal (/illegalizing it where it is legal now) or going down the half-assed legalization route. Wonder if there's even that big of a difference between the two, since both scenarios have many loopholes the "people" running the show can exploit.
You act like this is some pie-in-the-sky theory, as opposed to something that is already legal in parts of Nevada, Germany, and (how could I forget?!) large parts of Asia. If you want to learn more about how it's implemented, and what the workers and brothel owners are like, there are a wealth of documentaries and literature. (The episode I posted on the last page is a good one, too) A lot of what you wrote above are your personal theoretical projections, many of which are wrong. Also, talk to someone who has been to Hong Kong. It would really broaden your horizons on the subject. Prostitution is considered completely normal there. The customers include handsome, well-adjusted men with high-paying jobs. The women are sober, reasonably educated, and well-compensated. Hiring a dance hall girl for a night isn't considered a source of shame, just something a guy does. Not saying it's a garden of earthly delights (I would still never use a prostitute myself, for several different reasons), or that Triads aren't involved at some level, (as they are with many "legitimate" businesses in that part of the world) but it's vastly different than what you're projecting. By the way, all your arguments above about prostitution? With a little alteration, they're the same arguments defenders of Prohibition made against legalizing alcohol.
[MENTION=53329]T.Trian[/MENTION]: All the girls are for legalisation. And with cameras in rooms, they may not be necessary because a lot of 1:1 jobs (doctors, lawyers, nurses etc) are very high risk of assault anyway, and professionals are trained to manage that risk. As long as there are hidden panic buttons in all rooms and security isn't too far away, the risk would be reduced to acceptable for most, I think. I think this problem with prostitution stems from the issue of historical subjugation and abuse of women that was perfectly normal in patriarchal society (women were possessions, without any rights to leave a husband, gain education, get help if they are abused, no rights to own property or to influence law and government etc), and in some places it remains so today. We can't just undo two thousand years of damage and by now a hereditary trauma, as well as hereditary power-tripping by some. It's one of those things that'll take a very long time and law to police it, until the mentalities change (as well as the gene pool, to be honest). Have you seen the movie "Idiocracy"? I'm beginning to feel we are heading in that direction already.
How did I miss this comedic gem? Just a couple of points; 1. Most performers in gay porn are not actually gay. (This is equally true of whether it's two women or two men) Even some famous, straight male porn stars like John Holmes and Peter North did gay porn on the side, to make additional money. So while in heterosexual porn, both man and woman is at least attracted to the opposite gender, in gay porn, the performers frequently find the idea of having sex with the same gender as revolting as a gay man would find sex with a woman. Real "emotional". 2. In heterosexual porn, many female porn stars actually make their main money on the side...by being professional escorts. Their videos are nothing more than advertisements for their stripping and/or prostitution careers. (And yes, many strippers are willing to sell their bodies) In homosexual porn (specifically talking about man with man here), change "many" to "the overwhelming majority". The reason for this is simple economics. Gay porn is a niche genre, and doesn't pay remotely as well as mainstream, heterosexual porn. Thus, most gay porn stars supplement their income by being prostitutes. But I get it; gay porn > heterosexual porn because gay > straight, right?
[MENTION=54840]IronPalm[/MENTION]: as far as I know, unlike in Nevada, brothels are illegal e.g. in Hong Kong I believe you can do it legally as a private person, however, correct me if I'm wrong. Prostitution is still hidden from the public eye, not to the same degree as e.g. in Scandinavia, but I do wonder if it's really as "completely normal" as you claim (granted, we probably define normal differently). You are correct that it's no garden of earthly delights. Hell, just the amount of human trafficking from Russia alone! Triads hold a firm hand in the business too. I doubt I'd feel any less shitty or any more pro-prostitution about hiring a Filipino ladyboy in Hong Kong than I'd do in a country with more restricting laws. And they have pimps just the same. I do wonder how these pimps keep their pretty ducks in a row. Shoot 'em up with heroin, so a career change becomes even more difficult?
I know prostitution is legal in some places. My point is that I still haven't encountered a "perfectly" functioning example of legal prostitution. Regardless, bear in mind that I am more inclined to legalize prostitution, i.e. at the moment I see more faults in banning it than in legalizing it. Just saying that I still need to do just what you said: more research on the subject before I can say yay or nay. The reason why I don't see prostitution as comparable to prohibition in this instance is that here we aren't talking about booze or people doing things to themselves out of their very free will (consuming alcohol / brewing beer), but people doing things to people. That's why I'm still a little hesitant about choosing a side, so to speak, and since I have very little trust in any governing body (that of a country, a corporation or whatever), I'm naturally less than inclined to believe those leaders would suddenly become honest-to-God good people. Apart from that, I'm all for allowing everyone to do whatever they want just as long as they don't harm others while doing it, be it drinking moonshine, engaging in strange, perverse sexual practices, shooting up heroin (again, as long as it doesn't affect others, such as their possible kids), or just plain shooting guns at safe targets in the privacy of their backyards. Well, I'd still have guards and security cams because I'm paranoid and have witnessed so much voluntary man on woman violence (at BJJ, krav maga, and muay thai training) that I believe very, very few 100lbs girls, even when they have trained martial arts / combat sports, could fight off 220lbs of man-meat if he decides he suddenly wants some of the old ultra violence instead of vanilla sex (and I believe paramedics, nurses etc. should also be better protected, so I don't think it's necessary to inflict their current occupational hazards on girls doing an already less pleasant job). Panic buttons should still be there, though. Perhaps the men should wear shock collars and the guards can inflict a Taserful of electroshock therapy on the customers at the push of a button if need be? Wearing a collar would be a small price to pay (in addition to the other fees, of course) to have sex, at least to most men. But this is just rambling, so I'll stop now... I haven't seen Idiocracy yet, but I'll check it out. Thanks for the heads up.
As with similar meddlesome rules, there are all sorts of cunning ways to get around it. Prostitution itself is legal in Hong Kong, but "organized prostitution" is not. In practice, nothing is different, though. It just means that the police will get involved if the criminal element becomes too large and irritating. Well, this is sensationalism. Have you ever visited Hong Kong? While I'm sure you can find that and a thousand worse vices in a city like that, just like you can in New York, LA, or Chicago, it's certainly not the norm. Anyways, would any of those problems go away if prostitution were made illegal? No. It only gets worse. It's like arguing that there are deaths due to poor quality alcohol, and rampant alcoholism, so we need to ban drink. All those problems became massively worse under Prohibition. I have more trust in companies than governments, since they have less power and thus less ability to spread tyranny. (Oh, and they can't perpetually spend money far in excess of what they're earning, like governments can) Politicians are generally far more fucked-up scum than businessmen, too. But anyways, your argument could apply to anything. Aren't you scared to turn on the water faucet, because your local water and utilities board is probably inundated with corruption? I completely agree. I was actually going to write something in my first post about how I'm in favor of legalizing cocaine and heroine despite never even having smoked pot, and I'm glad that others have similar libertarian sensibilities.
[MENTION=54840]IronPalm[/MENTION]: I would like to respectfully ask you to not mock my comments by calling them "comedic gems". It's a puerile, school yard behaviour that has no place in an adult debate. I am nearing 40, and have a lot of life experience and when I say something I'm not talking just to hear a sound of my voice but because I know something or had a chance to think about it carefully. Gay porn that I have seen was vastly more emotional-looking (I am not saying those guys were in love, I'm talking about the scenario and execution) because both guys were enjoying it (yes, I can tell the difference), and also, there was a lot of kissing and eye contact, unlike most hetero porn, where the woman tends to be an object for pounding, shoving and using. However, I never said that is the complete, definitive definition of both styles, so it's rather pointless to assume I said something I didn't. By the way, how many prostitutes and porn actors have you ever met in your life, let alone interviewed about their psychological life? I'd hazard a guess - none. I worked with these people for a few years so what I'm saying is what they told me. Besides, if you only care to inform yourself without prejudice, you'll find confirmation of what I said. [MENTION=53329]T.Trian[/MENTION]: I know and you are right, but unfortunately, professions carry hazards. Every time I have to interview a killer in prison, or a completely psychotic patient, alone in a room, I am risking the same. But you'd be surprised how possible it is to manage dangerous situations in a controlled environment. The cameras could function if they were hidden and secret, otherwise, it's just another push towards black market without surveillance, because you know what people are like. Although, with creative policing and enough time, perhaps punters can get re-educated? Who knows! The thing with brothels and generally, negotiating with a customer, is to specify all things you do and don't do, and for them to openly and honestly communicate what they are after. Girls and especially the Madams (who often negotiate these things) are very cunning and can spot dodgy from a mile away. Shit happens, of course, but it can happen anywhere. I still think full legalisation even without constant surveillance, is a n improvement on what girls have to put up with now.
My point was that I'm afraid Hong Kong isn't any better than other big cities, or that its system doesn't work any better when it comes to abuse, criminal activities, and false imprisonment (I'm not sure if the 3rd one is the correct translation, but that's what it's referred to in Finland). Sensationalism? No, I don't think so. It's sick, dark, ugly reality, and it is now and always will be a part of prostitution, I'm afraid. I don't say every prostitute is a poor, pretty girl from Tunguska, but it's still a worrying, notable part of the business. In human trafficking and in prostution, a human being is reduced into a thing, something you can slam a price tag on, use up, and throw away when s/he's done or past her/his due date. But banning prostitution won't make this go away. I doubt it would even reduce it, perhaps even the opposite! As for me having visited Hong Kong. Of course I could go there and verify or falsify whatever claims I make, but that's also why I try to make claims with caution; because I don't work amidst the sex workers, I haven't worked there myself as a prostitute (I doubt that you have) or as their doctor, their pimp, or as a police officer in vice, as a punter and so on, so I have to lean on research. As for whether things would get worse if prostitution were made illegal in HK (note that it already is largely illegal, no advertisement, no street-walking, no soliciting, no brothels according to their law -- of course reality is different). I'd imagine that in Hong Kong things could get worse, some women from mainland can make a pretty pound (in the best case) because they can legally sell themselves, but I'm not sure if the same would go with every country and city. I agree with this to a degree. But alcohol and prostitution can't be put in the same box, treated the same. I do get what you mean, things would hardly get better with a ban, not in some places anyway. Banning this and that is rarely the cure -- though I can see why people would prefer it. But I'd rather people took responsibility and educated themselves, pondered about the consequences of their actions instead of governments having to go all big brother on them. Sure, this sounds like I was trying to kiss the sky or shoot rainbows out of my ass, but I'm young enough to be that naive. I can get more cynical later.
Prostitution in itself is a voluntary act of free will. The problem lies in those who coerce others into involuntary prostitution and those who are willing to purchase the services of unwilling prostitutes. But prostitution and purchasing sexual favors by themselves should not be illegal acts. It only makes the entire market more underground and therefore harder for people to intervene when abuse is taking place. Consider this: An employer who - through violence, the threat of violence or by other means removing a person's free will - coerces an employee to work for them and/or unjustly takes a part of their income (also known as theft); most would agree that this is wrong. Pimps who drug or threaten their "employees" is just an example of this. It's called slavery. Now, there is the added emotional and mental injuries that come with sexual abuse, and this makes it an extremely severe case of what I previously described. Since the prostitution market is in most places illegal, or at least parts of it are, it makes it easier for employers and customers to abuse the employees.
Agreed. Then again, some companies have an easier time applying stricter rules and regulations on their employees than governments because passing new laws is a tad trickier (at least in most countries), so governments, companies, and organizations all have lots of potential to really fuck with the little people, just in different ways. Not really, since water purity is regulated pretty well around here and any faux pas on the part of the providers makes big headlines. I am, however, worried that if, say, some dickhead makes an anonymous call and claims I've threatened to shoot people, and the government will confiscate my firearms. They've tried once, but they didn't have a leg to stand on in court, and, of course, I won. However, circling back to prostitution and the sex industry, the Russian and Estonian crime syndicates pretty much run the show around here and pressure, with more or less force, freelancers to join their rings or stay off their turf. The flipside of that is that there are oh so many instances where the snow-white government of Finland has turned out to be piss-yellow instead and after a paragraph in a tabloid here, perhaps another there, things are swept under the rug, very hush-hush just so the gorvernment doesn't look bad. Freedom of speech my ass, which readily implies the government is corrupt. Definitely corrupt enough to abuse any possible legalized large-scale prostitution. That's not to say that legalizing prostitution wouldn't necessarily make a bad situation slightly better, because it might. At least then the police could take all the resources they are now forced to waste on chasing small-time crooks and "regular" jackasses just looking to get high, and aim them at, say, human trafficking and the stinking underbelly of the local sex industry. I haven't seen enough male gay porn to be able to confirm or deny what you're saying, but I do agree that generally it appears gay porn (any sex) contains a tad less of the "bad kind" of porn discussed here, but it's possible the main reason is simply that straight porn is so much more common. Even lesbian porn is a niche market, albeit one of the larger ones. I think one reason why people watch crappy porn is because they don't know any better, i.e. the same reason why so many people eat at MacDonald's: it's readily available in large quantities whereas if you want quality gay or lesbian porn, it's a bit easier to find because there's less chaff to wade through. However, if quality porn (of any legal orientation) became more popular and easier to find, it could eventually affect the porn industry in a positive way. There's just one catch: it seems the sex industry contains more desperate people, on average, than many other professions, and that means lower quality, lower production values, lower wages for the actresses and actors (which means they have to work more to get by and likely do higher-paying, but mentally and physically more demanding roles) etc. This, in turn, means there aren't that many porn stars who really know how to act, porn directors who know how to direct etc, and the end result is run of the mill, low-grade fluff, the MacDonald's equivalent of porn. It can be a vicious circle, in a way. I know it's possible to control, say, a deranged patient or a john gone wild, anything is possible, but what I'm trying to figure out is some way to ensure a higher level of safety for the prostitutes, even at the expense of the clients, because often nurses, orderlies, paramedics, even mall guards etc. get training, they are taught how to defend themselves, how to talk to aggressive people, and so on and so forth. Prostitutes do not get any kind of real training on how to deal with hostile clients. In many instances, their "training" consists of their new owners and their buddies raping them repeatedly, sodomizing them, beating them until they break. Oh, and sometimes they are turned into drug addicts too, so, yeah, that doesn't really give them any real means of fending for themselves when a situation turns violent unexpectedly. Hence looking for options. Besides, man is, in many ways, a Pavlovian creature, so perhaps over a few decades, say, a shock collar might become an acceptable norm? I think governments know full well banning things doesn't really work (in most cases). Societies are dumb animals, generally speaking, and public outrage can turn ugly on the papers, so while in many countries, like Finland, the supposedly free press bends over to the government, to a degree, it appears governments want to pre-empt such scandals. What's the best way to appease a large group of outraged sheeple? Ban the thing they are outraged about, be it pot, prostitution, guns, bad language on TV, small tits (go Australia!) or whatever. Often these bans even make the situation worse, but like one Finnish politician (a fucktard if there ever was one) said after a school shooting: "right now the important thing is that we do something visible." It's a rough translation, but you get the gist. I find that it demeans the victims if all their society does is to pass some nominal law or set up yet another restriction on the freedoms of its citizens just so that said citizens can pretend they did something, they accomplished something good, they remedied the situation even though they know full well, just like everyone else, that they did jackshit, and the problem has not only not been remedied, but hidden under yet another facsimile of safety. That was what I was aiming at, but just could've explained it better, my bad. I think we have a fairly obvious consensus on what is the ideal, but the actual, concrete methods of reaching this ideal are still something of a mystery, at least to me.
You can tell the difference? Confirmation bias, much? These generalizations are wrong. There is a mountain of heterosexual porn featuring "lots of kissing and eye contact" and plenty of gay porn involves men that are objects for "pounding, shoving, and using". Those characteristics have nothing to do with the genders involved. Some people (gay or straight) enjoy watching rougher sex, and others enjoy more sensual sex. That's it. Just like lesbian sex can involve two women softly kissing and rubbing against one another, or a woman slapping and choking her partner before violating her with a strap-on in every hole. Or are you trying to imply that homosexual porn is somehow "gentler", while straight sex is "rougher"? Clearly, you didn't read this post. He wasn't the only one, either; "Porn Valley" wasn't far from where I used to live in Southern California. What, about gay porn being better than straight porn, and how much fun you had watching it with a group of gay men? Sounds like a subjective statement to declare yourself definitively correct about... Fair enough, but what are you basing this from? My own beliefs stem from a mix of personal accounts from friends that live(d) in Hong Kong (a bunch of them work in finance) as well as the usual hodge-podge of books, documentaries, and articles. I visited HK briefly, and while I didn't peruse any prostitutes, it was a normal thing for many businessmen to do, and the whole affair was far less seedy and grimy.
[MENTION=54840]IronPalm[/MENTION]: I respect your decision to remain in a school playground. Just don't expect me to play with you there. [MENTION=53329]T.Trian[/MENTION]: I agree with you! However, there is a distinct "safe" prostitution scene, that doesn't involve human trafficking. Most high end escort agencies will be like that, and the customers pay a lot. The girls are still used, it's a part of the game, but they aren't coerced and they are certainly given education both in sexual technique as breakaway training. They are also given regular check ups and if they are found to be using injectables, they are fired. I'd like to say more, but It'd get too close to the real people and I am bound by confidentiality. But a few lucky girls manage to stay reasonably safe, and regulation would definitely make things easier on them.
Would the abolishment of legal, voluntary porn have a significant impact on human trafficking? Would the abolishment of the internet have a significant impact on human trafficking? This discussion seems to revert to the illegal bondage of humans into the sex industry as a means of defining the industry itself. Slavery is as old as civilization. Men and women have been forced into servitude for labor and sex long before social media. It has clearly been stated that the illegal side of porn is not supported by anybody on this thread and I do not believe that the argument for or against porn can be based on the existence of the illegal side of it. I know three (related to one) girls who have posed for Playboy. Nobody forced them to do it; they were not recruited. They made the conscious decision to "apply." There are actresses who start off in smut films hoping to jump into hollywood. There are women who turn to prostitution and stripping because they see it as a way to make ends meet. Just because the industry exists does not mean you have to use it as a viable source of income. Maybe I'm just an asshole, but I have no sympathy for where your decisions take you. Farms are still farmed without slaves and porn is still porned(?) without them as well.
I tend to reserve myself from drawing conclusions, but from what I've read on this thread and from various discussions with many different kinds of people, I suspect that a lot of people's opinions on pornography and prostitution are based on their moral values, whether on a conscious or subconscious level. Like I said, it's only a suspicion and I do not draw conclusions based on this, nor do I argue from this assumption, but I do think it's worth keeping in mind. The Prohibition showed us that banning something that there is a high demand of is pointless and only makes matters worse, and we are currently being shown this with the War on Drugs.
T and I did plenty of research about prostitution for our current WIP and another story before that. However, we delved deeper into the situation in Europe and the US rather than in Asia. What I know of China, Hong Kong, and Japan reminds structure-wise how it's run over here. I'm fairly sure it's not a mirror image as in looks exactly the same, but I'd wager similar problems exist e.g. in HK too. I didn't want to mention people I know who have visited or lived in Hong Kong because their experiences are colored by their opinions. None of them would ever use a prostitute. My boss will travel there this autumn though. Maybe I should ask for a report As for the grime and seediness. I wonder if they dress it prettier there? The customer doesn't get to glimpse behind the curtain, the customer may also prefer denial and delusion. "She's obviously gagging for it. Hell, I'm doing her a favor." I guess that's also what I'd want the punter to think. But just like Jazzabel pointed out, there are other stories than sob stories among prostitutes. And I do wish the people who actually want to prostitute themselves were given safety, medical care, and support. Illegalizing/banning it altogether instead of legalizing it (even to a degree) may push the working men and women farther into the fringes of society. Do you mean (brace yourself for editorializing to hammer in the point): people are such prudes that they want to ban porn and illegalize prostitution everywhere or people are disturbed by what filth revolves around the sex industry (e.g. take a look at Jazzabel's experiences) in comparison to e.g. music industry and that's why they're against it? The first one is used surprisingly often to criticize and discredit anyone who dares say anything anti-porn.
I meant the first one. I have no opinion on people who dislike porn and prostitution due to their morals, but may object to people who want to force their morality onto others.
Being the libertarian that I am, my first instinct is that people should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as they are not injuring other people. However, I can't help but think of the negative affects our growing 'porn culture' is having in society as a whole. Our young men are being taught at a very early age an unrealistic and objectifying view of women. Studies have shown that this early exposure to porn creates problems developing healthy relationships when they get older. So I guess on a small scale, people should be free to damage themselves emotionally and physically all they want, but in the bigger picture, if our entire social health is in decline then perhaps we, as a society should reverse the course somehow.
I suppose in this respect our parents had it easier before us and their parents had it easier before them because porn wasn't as easily come by way back when whereas if you have a child now, his/her exposure to porn will come much earlier than it would've if he/she had been born in, say, the 1970s or even the 1980s. And about the situation in HK / Asia when compared to e.g. Europe: I don't really know, but what I do know is that at least around here, and I would imagine over there too, many prostitutes and pimps want the customer to think the girls are loving it or at the very least enjoying it because that means the customer is more likely to come back and spend more money instead of if he was feeling guilty about exploiting a crying wreck of a girl. Granted, some men like that too, but I'm talking about the majority of the customers who'd likely prefer it if their consciences remained clear when using the services of sex workers. From what I've seen / read, however, this is mostly (with very few exceptions) a facade. Kinda like any customer service reps: go to any higher end store and more often than not, the clerks have to smile, they have to be very polite, even if they're having a very shitty day because their spouse just left them, their dog died, and they flunked another college course. It's just how the system works on a general level: if the workers seem happy, the customers are more likely to enjoy doing business at the establishment. That's why customers should never trust a worker's smile while they're on the clock: more often than one would think, though not always, it's faked. If you take into consideration that prostitution is one of the harsher jobs on the planet, it's even more likely the case with sex workers than it is with your average *insert the name of an expensive department store*'s clerk. Besides, some Asian cultures are famous for good poker faces such as Japan. I would imagine you'd be less likely to find a local prostitute there than in, say, the States, who'd actually go "yeah, I'd really prefer it if you didn't fuck me tonight 'cause I'm all chafed up inside and I got DTs."
I am very happy to hear this. The pron is the most destroyer thing for people's mind and morality and the internet was one of the public carrier for such spiritual venom. It is the best determination of the England government that I have seen till now. Those who make such shameful pictures or movies are the most immoral and dirty people in the world. They are the enemy of humanity and righteousness. they are like the tigers that are ripping the soul and the heart of people by their claws and teeth. I hope the politicians of UK be serious in this way and uproot this fatal toxic malady from UK society and I hope some other countries governments follow this vital decision and ban those tragical and deathly picture and movies in their internet.
And I equally respect your decision to respond to my cogent, fact-based post with dismissive, off-topic, ad hominem trolling. Easier to do that than say, "yep, claiming homosexual porn is more emotional than heterosexual porn was baseless". Porn has both good and bad effects. However, I believe any claims that it creates serious problems for relationships is overblown and generally inaccurate. Humans can compartmentalize to an astonishing degree. Just because I love violent action movies and MMA doesn't mean I want to beat the shit out of any random guy I meet on the streets. And in fact, studies regularly fail at establishing any link between consumption of violent media and actual violence. Similarly, watching porn doesn't make me view every woman as a sex object. The biggest negative effect porn has had on me? Made it slightly more difficult to orgasm or stay hard when having sex. My pleasure zones are burnt out. I don't know whether this is serious or sarcastic (I'm hoping it's the former), but in either case, bravo. This is the funniest thing I have ever read on this forum.
