1. writerdude11
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    writerdude11 Member

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    any experienced editors or people who have gotten publushed?

    Discussion in 'The Art of Critique' started by writerdude11, Mar 22, 2013.

    Hey guys, I was wondering if there was any experienced editors out there or people who have had their works published that would be willing to critique my writing to tell me what i need to work on to get published. I would greatly appreciate it if you could help me on this. Thanks!
     
  2. Nee
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    Nee Contributing Member

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    What...for free...?
     
  3. Selbbin
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    Selbbin I hate you Contributor

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    I've done a lot of script editing and consulting, so not sure if useful, but yeah, I wouldn't do it for free. It's a butt tonne of work.

    Or you could just use the workshop.
     
  4. Mckk
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    Mckk Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    You want experienced editors and published writers to critique you work... for free? I'm sorry, but dream on :D It's far too much work. Use the workshop - there're a few published writers on this forum and while you cannot guarantee that they would be the ones to reply, there's a chance. If you want focused, special attention then it'll either have to be a trade (I don't see why experienced writers like the ones you want would trade with you though, since you indicate yourself to be less experienced) or else you'd have to pay.

    If you really want a good editor, google some reputable editing agencies, check out their policies, what they offer and who's on their team, if they help writers publish afterwards should the MS be good enough etc, and then dig out the dole and it's off to work :)
     
  5. lettuce head
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    lettuce head Active Member

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    Check out guru.com for editors.
     
  6. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    ...money you spend on a good editor [or even a poor one] has next to no chance of ever being recouped, so be sure you can afford to toss it down the drain, before hiring an editor to just tell you what's wrong with your writing, or to fix it for you... the good ones will cost many hundreds to thousands of bucks, to assess/fix a full book ms...

    i'm a professional editor and in addition to taking on the occasional client, i also mentor aspiring writers full time [yes, for free!], so you can email me for a free assessment of your work, any time...

    love and hugs, maia
    maia3maia@hotmail.com
     
  7. Keitsumah
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    Keitsumah The Dream-Walker Contributor

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    critiquecircle critiques your work for free. you have to critique other people's stuff for points in order to enter your own work -but its fair. can't guarantee your critiques would be from published authors but i've found it points out a lot of useful stuff for me as i use it now even (corrected chapters of Last of the Imirri 1-2 now and working on three)
     
  8. live2write
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    live2write Contributing Member

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    Should the editing happen before you submit to a publisher or after?!
     
  9. lettuce head
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    lettuce head Active Member

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    In my case, definitely. If you want to have the best shot possible it is important that an unbiased editor give it a good looking over.
     
  10. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Don't waste your money. If you don't know how to make your manuscript better, don't hire an editor. You'll learn nothing, and the result will not be your writing. It may not even be better.

    A writing tutor is an alternative, but at some point you have to bite the bullet and submit. The person who examines the manuscript is a submissions editor. He or she won't rewrite your piece, but any feedback you receive will cost you nothing but your pride.
     
  11. lettuce head
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    lettuce head Active Member

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    Using an editor works for me. But I've used one ever since I began writing. And yes, they have acted as a tutor as well. I've always been one who believes you have to pay for an education. In any business I've started, in most endeavors in general, I find out how to do things from those who have been there before. It isn't a waste of money for me at all. It is money well spent. That's just me.

    I edit my own work to a point, as best I can. But another set of eyes can find things every time. Whenever I have the intent of what I am writing is going to print I make sure an expert sees it first.
     
  12. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Don't pay an expert. Become one. Every writer should be his or her own best editor.
     
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  13. Mckk
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    Mckk Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    It is true that editing services are so... I dunno, subjective, then they're often not very useful. I think there's a lot of luck involved - if you get a good editor, if your good editor is also a diligent editor. You see, a good editor who's lazy might just tell you general things that any other good writer can, meaning he's not worth his dole. Or the same editor might just tell you everything's perfect after some minor changes, when in fact it's not perfect, but he just doesn't wanna do anymore work. There's almost no way of finding these things out beforehand. A good editor really has to be in a kind of partnership with the writer where the stakes are similar for both so that the editor will care as much as you do how good your book is - and a paid editor simply wouldn't, he can't.

    In this sense, an agent who will help you edit your work is much more valuable, because she's got as much to lose as you have once she's entered into a contract with you.

    I hired an editor myself. The good thing is - it served as the motivation and encouragement that I needed to complete my first novel (many times the only thing stopping me from giving up was the knowledge that I'm paying the guy and I don't want my money down the drain).

    The bad thing?

    Well... I'm not sure I needed an editor at all... he's not said anything I haven't spotted myself. Sure, it's good to have someone who would read your book from start to finish, but if the comments are general and a little few and far between, then... well... yeah it's still helpful, but not so helpful that it was worth the money.

    In short... hmmm - if I ever went for an editor again, I'd rather pay more and go with a reputable agency. Short of that, I won't pay at all - I'll edit it all myself. In the end, whether you have an editor or not, you are still gonna be doing 90% of the work anyway as the author - so you might as well go all the way.

    Yes, if anyone wants to know, I feel a tad scammed by my editor in the end :D he didn't "scam" me - he just did the bare minimum of what his job required. Something you couldn't know without knowing the editor personally beforehand. So if you do go for a paid editor, just be careful. Plenty of good editing services out there but you can easily be paying more than you should for sub-par work.
     
  14. lettuce head
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    lettuce head Active Member

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    I edit my own work along the way and go through two or three readings and edits of my own so that what I'm writing is clear. Then I read it aloud and do one more. Then I give it to my editor. They can be more critical than I. They have a different mind than I do. They see gaps in places where when I read it, my mind automatically fills it in as if I already wrote it into the story. That kind of thing happens. It can happen with anyone.

    I'm an idea guy, but not a very good editor. I don't want to be. I farm out the final edit so that I get the benefit of producing a better product. I find them invaluable. I also find my attorney, accountant, auto mechanic, and realtor invaluable as well.
     
  15. jazzabel
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    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

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    I agree with what everyone said about there being no chance that you can get pro editorial services for free, not just on this site but anywhere. Someone's got to pay for the work. If not you, then your agent.

    But the point is in becoming a good enough writer and editor on your own, to be able to sell your story to a good agent or publisher who will pay for these brilliant editors. Until you are that good (and that takes years of hard work, research, reading, practicing, like any craft) editor is only an euphemism for "I'm too lazy and want to throw money at everything". Nobody becomes a good writer like that. It's the same as lipsynching someone else's song and calling yourself a singer songwriter.

    If you have an editor since you began to write, as you said, you'll probably never learn how to write well enough. This kind of hand holding has no place in creative writing. It's lazy and pointless. We are all insecure, but unless we go and do it, 100% alone, no holds barred, no safety nets, no crutches, we have no right to call ourselves writers. Everything else is just kidding yourself.
     
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  16. lettuce head
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    lettuce head Active Member

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    You assume much. I don't pay someone to write for me. Never did. I pay them to edit what I have already written. I have become a better writer because of my process. I don't throw money, I invest in myself.

    When I started my publishing company in 1990, I knew nothing about it. I hired an editor and fired him after the first year. I took that position and became the Publishing Editor. I decided the content, what articles to purchase, sold the ads, etc. But I needed editorial help. So I hired a part time editor who encouraged me to write. I've been at it ever since. Maybe it is a strange way to begin writing, but that is how it began for me.

    In publishing, everything gets funneled through an editor before publication. For me, it is simply part of the process. I follow what works for me. If you don't think I'm qualified enough to be a writer, your choice. I don't need validation. I thought this forum was for learning and sharing ideas, techniques and experiences. Perhaps someone will find what I say helpful, or think I'm a joke and try something else. I just want people to find the way that works for them and go for it, whatever that is.
     
  17. jazzabel
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    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

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    I understand your situation better now and I can see how you can think that. And maybe you've been "learning" for the past 10? 15 years? It is possible that you are right. However, consider that I might be right when I suggest that if you've been at it as an educated adult for this long and you are in the industry yourself and you still haven't gotten published, then perhaps your method of early reliance on an editor to tidy up your manuscript is not allowing you to become a master of your trade. In my experience, every person who believes they are a writer, they are right. But there might be issues preventing them from reaching their full potential. It's something we all go through and I am very much in the early stages of that path myself. But whatever you are learning, hopefully it is in order to make you a better writer, more confident and ready to take the huge risk we all have to take in order to get published.
    If I'm right in assuming that you don't need an editor at all, then it's great that you came here, to hear what all these people are telling you about why you need to become your own editor if you want to go further. And maybe you don't have to spend another penny in order to become a better writer and even write a bestseller one day.

    Just a thought. I hope I didn't offend, and if I did, I sincerely apologise because it wasn't my intention :)
     
  18. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    cc doesn't do anything that this site doesn't provide... i know, because i also help out there as i do here... it's just another [and much less trafficked than this] writing site... critiques here are also free and you also have to critique others' work before being able to post your own work... the rest of your info also applies to this site... so i don't see why you posted this info...
     
  19. lettuce head
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    lettuce head Active Member

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    Don't worry about it. But in the future you might want to stay clear of saying things like, " . . . "I'm too lazy and want to throw money at everything". Nobody becomes a good writer like that. It's the same as lipsynching someone else's song and calling yourself a singer songwriter." It could be taken the wrong way.

    I have been published a couple of hundred times, half of those under my own publication. I have a little experience with the process and an editor is always involved. I've also purchased columns, interviews and feature length articles. What I have yet to do is publish a novel. It is a different animal.

    I agree with you there can always be things that stand in our way and many of times we are our own worse enemy. We can rely on things that at one time liberated us, and later become our prison. But before the ink hits the paper, there is an editor. And God bless each and every one of them.
     
  20. jazzabel
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    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

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    Fair enough lettuce head, it's up to you to use each piece of advice you get, in any way you want. I can tell you this much - an honest opinion can be valuable to a writer, and my opinion was honest. I still think you don't need an editor, but if you feel you are on the right track to that novel, more power to you. :)
     
  21. lettuce head
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    lettuce head Active Member

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    Thanks jazzabel. And I'll certainly give thought to what you've had to say here.
     
  22. Baz the WarriorDreamer
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    Baz the WarriorDreamer Member

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    I think with me, what I would want to do is try my hardest to make my book the best it can possiblly be, on my own. I think when I out-run all possible ideas on how to improve it and I think it is ready for publication I MAY pay for an editing service, just to get a second opinion. I would not pay out loads just for someone to tell me how to write the story. I would however pay a small amount just to get a professional person to review my story. Just for them to pick up on things that perhaps my mind will just NEVER pick up, regardless of what I learn. (People need to realise that they are only one person and there are 7 billion people out there, meaning 7 billion different opinions.) Meaning another opinion is always good.
     
  23. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    what you want an editor to do will not cost only a 'small amount'... that's not the lowest level edit [which is a simple technical edit for typos and minor grammar glitches], it's the next-to-highest one and a good, professional editor will charge a pretty high fee for such a 'story edit'...

    and this is money you are not likely to recoup from the book, since even the best edit doesn't guarantee the ms will ever be taken on by a paying publisher, or make enough money if self-published, to equal what you paid for the edit...

    and it's not easy to find the good, pro editors among the slew of wannbe amateurs and outright scam artists advertising on the web, so you need to vet very carefully anyone you think of usingl, before shelling out any money... be sure to ask for a sample edit and for references...

    btw, i speak from decades of experience as a professional editor who's provided editing services of all levels...

    love and hugs, maia
     
  24. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Only if you know what to do with it. Often you will get conflicting recommendations. Without being able to follow the thought processes behind the recommendations, and weigh them against what your goals are for that passage of writing, you may end up tearing your hair out.

    Editors won't necessarily explain why they made changes, and if they do, they may not do so clearly. Instead of an editor, perhaps you have need of a writing tutor.
     
  25. lettuce head
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    lettuce head Active Member

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    That's what I do and I'm happy with it. Line editing is important. Like with anything else, when it has to be right make sure that it is. To me, it is like investing in any business or enterprise. While most would disagree with me on this point, writing can be a business. If you intend to write a novel in order to make money from it, it is a business. What's wrong with treating it as such? Like any business it requires the investment of time and resource. How much is your time worth? How many hours do you spend on it? How much per hour is it worth to you? Add it up and you will see a substantial number even if you use minimum wage as your base.

    I have people I know who read the first draft to get a sense of the flow from them and organizational aspects they might think need work, or areas of interest to them that could used more description. I take all of that into consideration, then tighten it up. I pay for the final once over and sometimes I throw parts to my editor that give me trouble along the way. Whatever works for you is the way you should do it. To me, investing in outside help is not a waste of money. Will you recoup your investment? Not every business I ever started ended up making money. Sometimes it takes a while. Sometimes it is a bust. But sometimes it has reward. Good luck, Baz
     

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