1. shaylyn

    shaylyn New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    1

    Style QUOTING a few choice words from a song....

    Discussion in 'General Writing' started by shaylyn, Apr 26, 2012.

    I'm trying to describe the color of a person's skin as a lighter brown color (like of hawaiin decent) without saying "skin the color of mocha" which get's the words to Livin' La Vida Loca stuck in my head. Any ideas?
     
  2. The Tourist

    The Tourist Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,081
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Wisconsin.
    When I'm faced with nothing but stereotypes or clichés, I swing for the fence. It's my story, why not throw some "wow" into your discourse. I'd try this.

    "The lead ran a gaze of over the lithe woman's skin. There was a comforting steamy warmth in her visage, like a creme brulee on a dreary afternoon. He could even imagine ladeling broth over her, if he could find that many boullion cubes..."

    I don't know, but I see a nice tan, glowing skin there. In fact, I'd like to meet that woman.
     
  3. superpsycho

    superpsycho New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    637
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    His/her complexion had the deep rich tones of an Islander bathed in sun.
     
  4. shaylyn

    shaylyn New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    1
    Tourist, your reply made me smile :)
     
  5. The Tourist

    The Tourist Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,081
    Likes Received:
    28
    Location:
    Wisconsin.
    I do what I can, at least that's what I tell my probation officer.

    Seriously, we're supposed to be here to help each other write our stories. If that little blurb triggers your imagination to come up with the descriptive paragraph you need, then it's been my pleasure.
     
  6. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    18,385
    Likes Received:
    7,080
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    So in my plot a bunch of teens in a small village are hanging out. They play instruments (there's no electricity). I want to write a short verse, a song one of them writes about the plight they feel, but everything I try sounds dorky. Are there any quick rules for song lyrics, like "show don't tell" is a rule for writing? Anything you might advise a new writer when it comes to song lyrics or poetry rather than story fiction?

    Thanks.
     
  7. minstrel

    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    10,742
    Likes Received:
    9,991
    Location:
    Near Sedro Woolley, Washington
    Most lyrics of pop songs, if you read them without the music, sound hokey, if not downright stupid.

    "I love you, baby
    Don't go away
    Stick around, baby
    I want you to stay."

    I just tossed that off. You can have it for free. It's dumb, but so are lots of pop songs.
     
  8. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    18,385
    Likes Received:
    7,080
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    I tried this but I hate it. It's to the tune of Poor Wayfaring Stranger.

    Surely there’s room
    for our small numbers
    For you know
    we can’t go back
    All these years
    with our few hunters
    We’ve not left
    even a track

    Your numbers grow
    while our’s diminish
    One day we will
    cross paths again
    Will we meet up
    with our lost kin
    Will we become
    dust in your wind


    The critique group thought dust in the wind didn't work so I do want to change that. I dunno, it's just hokey. I need more desperation, sadness, with only a thin ray of hope.
     
  9. psychotick

    psychotick Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,526
    Likes Received:
    477
    Location:
    Rotorua, New Zealand
    Hi,

    Might I suggest that since it's a book and there's no music, if you want to have impact go for poetry instead. People will happily accept poetry verse as song lyrics provided they don't hear people trying to sing them, and they'll make better sense.

    Cheers, Greg.
     
  10. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    18,385
    Likes Received:
    7,080
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    I want poetry, but I've not written poetry or song lyrics. Where do I start? I mean, besides reading poetry. I could read more, but what else? I'll read some of the poetry critiques. What else? Or is that it?
     
  11. Michael O

    Michael O Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    290
    Likes Received:
    6
    Find a song you like, take something relative to the plight and give the song new words. Number of kids singing is important to the song you choose.
    Say he/she is coaxing them into singing and not just playing. Think it's important the tune has a good change of being known by the reader.

    WELL, I WAS DRUNK THE DAY MY MOM GOT OUT OF PRISON
    AND I WENT TO PICK HER UP IN THE RAIN
    BUT BEFORE I COULD GET TO THE STATION IN MY PICK-UP TRUCK
    SHE GOT RUNNED OVER BY A DAMNED OLD TRAIN

    If readers are not Country Music fans then this would not be something to choose.


    Well the power's been off in town for such a long time (That has the same number of syllables as the song above. It carries the tune.)

    They're working hard to turn it on for you. (syllables are 10 above and 10 here. Just end it with a rhyme to you)

    That's how I do it:)
     
  12. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    19,150
    Likes Received:
    1,034
    Location:
    Coquille, Oregon
    i'm a lyricist, among other things, ginger, so if you email me i'll be happy to write a lyric for you that will do what you want story-wise...

    love and hugs, maia
    maia3maia@hotmail.com
     
  13. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,601
    Likes Received:
    1,306
    Location:
    Washington, DC, USA
    Saw a thread just below this on using dialogue from songs and copyright - I have a related but different question. How much can a story use quotes from music WITH attribution. I use tons of musical allegories, my characters are often listening to records, quoting songs, etc. In a lot of cases I wrap the lyrics directly into the plot and quote them as a block. My chapter titles are all lyric references, and I'm even footnoting chapters with songs that inspired them.

    So I guess the question is where fair use ends and copyright becomes a potential pitfall - especially as I reference the works of a ton of different artists (my story is set in the future and all of my middle-aged characters' old records are current Top 40 hits).
     
  14. Ulramar

    Ulramar Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    May 6, 2014
    Messages:
    796
    Likes Received:
    243
    I mean I'm sure you could if you put little footnotes at the bottom of the page giving credit, but I think you'd be safer if you contacted the band/label/etc who owns the song. It'd just be safer.
     
    cutecat22 likes this.
  15. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,601
    Likes Received:
    1,306
    Location:
    Washington, DC, USA
    I'm a long, long way from being finished - so it's not an issue right now. But once I finish I probably will have to contact a ton of bands or record labels - the whole story is built on how culture influences society so there's just a ton of references to everyone from Taylor Swift to Nirvana to David Guetta to...you name it I'm probably using it.
     
  16. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    5,101
    Likes Received:
    3,203
    Location:
    Queens, NY
    With song lyrics, attribution is not the issue. Permission is. You need permission from the artist and often have to pay a fee for it.
     
  17. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,601
    Likes Received:
    1,306
    Location:
    Washington, DC, USA
    Well I guess if this thing ever gets to print I'll be shelling out a bunch of cash to record labels - but that's assuming a lot of dominoes fall the right way. Maybe I should finish writing first :)
     
  18. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    5,101
    Likes Received:
    3,203
    Location:
    Queens, NY
    That would be my advice. :agreed:
     
  19. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    18,385
    Likes Received:
    7,080
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    At some point, it's a lyric, but before that point, it's just a phrase. I would think it depends on how much of the lyric you use and how common the phrase has become.
     
  20. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    5,101
    Likes Received:
    3,203
    Location:
    Queens, NY
    Well, the OP said "I wrap the lyrics directly into the plot and quote them as a block." Sounds like a red flag to me.
     
  21. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,262
    Likes Received:
    13,084
    Yep, and not just for song lyrics. Violation of copyright is not usually about attribution/credit in any way at all. (Ed, I realize that you already know all this; your post just seemed like a good jumping-off point for mine.)

    Now, some people will allow you to use their copyrighted work if you give them credit, but that's just a part of the copyright holder's right to set the terms for use of his work, rather than something baked into copyright law. A copyright holder can say that before you can use their work you have to give them credit, give them money, wear purple shoes for a week, stand in the town square and recite a poem praising their cat--they can set whatever terms they want. But giving credit isn't part of copyright law itself, any more than the purple shoes or the cat poem are.

    Plagiarism is indeed about credit, but plagiarism is usually an academic or professional offense. Plagiarism and copyright violation may both come up in relation to the same work, but they are different.
     
    cutecat22 likes this.
  22. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    18,385
    Likes Received:
    7,080
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    Definitely that would require permission and a citation.
     
  23. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    18,385
    Likes Received:
    7,080
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    Fair Use
    Transformation (law)
    Pretty complicated, not sure it's worth it unless one wants to consult a copyright lawyer.
     
  24. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,262
    Likes Received:
    13,084
    My understanding is that fair use for song lyrics is a big, big stretch, all but impossible, especially in fiction. If you were writing a nonfiction editorial condemning some song lyrics as reflecting an idea that you disapprove of, you might reasonably be able to claim fair use as commentary. If you're mocking the song, you might be able to get away with parody.

    But if you're using the song for the inherent nature of the song, getting value from its value, then that's not commentary or parody. And for whatever reason, presumably the nature of music and songs, even a little bit of the song is, I believe, seen as a substantial taking. And no, I am not a lawyer.
     
    cutecat22 likes this.
  25. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,601
    Likes Received:
    1,306
    Location:
    Washington, DC, USA
    Just to be clear - I'm not using phrases in the text without saying where they come from. My characters actually spend a lot of time listening to music and I make a lot of points about how the lyrics of whatever they are listening to effects them. (For instance I have one sequence where a character having a breakdown starts blasting her "20 year old" Taylor Swift albums and I quote Swift's song "22" in terms of how it gets inside her head).

    Granted, like I said, I'm nowhere close to finishing this thing. If I do, and if I get to the point of publication - then I'll look at how much money I have to pay for the fact that I've loaded my piece with pop music references.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice