Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,602
    Likes Received:
    5,877
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.

    Apparently the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is NOT a good guy with a gun

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by GingerCoffee, Aug 23, 2013.

    I just love this woman. She's my new favorite best hero.

    911 Tape Shows Just How Amazing Ga. School Clerk Antoinette Tuff Was Under Pressure
    This is what a hero looks like.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2013
    jazzabel likes this.
  2. IronPalm
    Offline

    IronPalm Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    21

    Interesting story, but what does it have to do with the topic title? By the way, the woman was very lucky; a truly insane/hardened killer like an Adam Lanza, Nidal Malik Hasan, or John Holmes would have splattered her brains without mercy.

    However, since you're using this to further a political point of view in the gun debate ("never let a crisis go to waste" as the evil genius Saul Alinsky wrote), allow me to do the same;

    I just love this woman. She's my new favorite best hero.

    Single Mother Sarah McKinley Shoots, Kills Home Intruder, Saves Herself and Child, 911 Operators Say It's OK to Shoot



    This is what a hero looks like.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2013
    JJ_Maxx and Garball like this.
  3. BritInFrance
    Offline

    BritInFrance Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    Central France
    There is this woman who talked to the two men who murdered the soldier in Woolwich, London a few months ago. She stood talking to them (they were covered in blood and carrying a gun and machettes) for twenty minutes (which is the time it took for the police to arrive!). She got off the bus because she thought someone had been hurt in a car accident and came to help.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-22697116

    I am not going to get into the gun debate. It takes guts to stand talking to armed men for that length of time, when you yourself are vunerable. Other people (also unarmed) were also there preventing the men from trying to cut the soldiers head off.

    Also this woman who (in the middle of the London riots) tells the youth how it really is:
     
  4. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,602
    Likes Received:
    5,877
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    This is not a gun debate thread. This is a "it doesn't take a gun" thread, and a, "damn that woman was incredible." thread. The reason for the thread title is in the US when a couple dozen first graders were gunned down in their classroom, the NRA spokesperson, LaPierre, speaking on behalf of the gun industry, made the unsupportable claim that, “the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun.”

    This hero proves that statement wrong.

    I don't want to discuss gun laws. If people what to bring up the horrific idea we should arm teachers, that is within the thread topic. And the incidents you mention are also within the thread topic.
     
    BritInFrance likes this.
  5. IronPalm
    Offline

    IronPalm Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    21
    Well, you certainly fooled me with your thread title!

    *Doesn't want to discuss gun laws, right after saying a proposed gun law was "proved wrong".

    It's funny how statements that completely contradictory one another often occur consecutively, isn't it?
     
  6. BritInFrance
    Offline

    BritInFrance Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    Central France
    She didn't contradict herself.

    She said that the pro-gun lobby said there is only one way to stop a bad guy with a gun. She puts this person forward as an example that there are other ways. And also to celebrate her as a hero.

    Ginger didn't say that gun laws, or proposed gun laws, are right or wrong.
     
  7. IronPalm
    Offline

    IronPalm Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    21
    To-may-toe, to-mah-toe.

    Based on what she decided to name the topic, that was a very secondary concern.
     
  8. Selbbin
    Offline

    Selbbin I hate you Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2012
    Messages:
    3,201
    Likes Received:
    1,786
    Location:
    Australia
    The best defence is understanding. That's what she did.
     
    jazzabel likes this.
  9. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,602
    Likes Received:
    5,877
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    Do you see the word, "law" in your post. Well it's BS.

    Now if you want to re-read my posts and have a comment that is relative, I'd be happy to reply.
     
  10. IronPalm
    Offline

    IronPalm Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    21
    Really? Because that quote you were responding to was uttered by the NRA president while proposing a gun law. Which you were even kind enough to elucidate;

    "If people what to bring up the horrific idea we should arm teachers, that is within the thread topic."

    Also, reported.

    Relative to what? You using tragedies and near-tragedies to push a political agenda, as per the topic name?
     
  11. jazzabel
    Offline

    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    4,273
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    What a legend! Just to think that people with mental illness (depression, suicide attempts, like this lady) and women and are discriminated against as being weak or less capable, by the gung-ho guys with penis substitutes, pardon, guns.
     
    BritInFrance likes this.
  12. 123456789
    Offline

    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    6,336
    Likes Received:
    3,084

    This topic was about facing gun threats. What's with the misandry?
     
    JJ_Maxx and IronPalm like this.
  13. Steerpike
    Offline

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,055
    Likes Received:
    5,256
    Location:
    California, US
    The idea that there is one way to approach such situations seems foolish. Antoinette Tuff did a remarkable job. There may be instances where talking either won't be an option or won't do any good, but in this case it is clear to me she averted a greater tragedy.
     
    IronPalm likes this.
  14. Garball
    Offline

    Garball Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand. Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    2,846
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    Location:
    S'port, LA
    "He had me actually get on the intercom and tell everybody he was sorry, too. ... I give it all to God, I'm not the hero. I was terrified."

    I'm just surprised that Ginger praised somebody who could be so stupid for believing in some fantastical sky-wizard.
     
    JJ_Maxx likes this.
  15. jazzabel
    Offline

    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    4,273
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    @123456789: Oh, I'm sorry, the new system unignored you for me. Let me correct that with a flick of my finger ;)
     
  16. Pheonix
    Offline

    Pheonix A Singer of Space Operas and The Fourth Mod of RP Staff Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2012
    Messages:
    5,716
    Likes Received:
    401
    Location:
    The Windy City
    *Thinks about touching the thread with a ten foot pole, decides it a bad idea... Leaves... Then Comes back and pokes it anyway...*

    New Record! Anger and conflict within the first 3 posts!
     
    jannert, Lemex and jazzabel like this.
  17. minstrel
    Offline

    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    8,723
    Likes Received:
    4,821
    Location:
    Near Los Angeles
    Wow. This escalated fast (by the second post, in fact). And now it's not just not-guns vs. guns, it's women vs. men.

    Here's the deal: Do whatever you want, but please don't report any posts from this thread, okay?
     
    jannert and jazzabel like this.
  18. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    Pahaha! I think it's a brilliant record, amazing, I don't see how anyone can beat this. :p

    I'm with minstrel here: do as you please, I'll consider this a social experiment.
     
    jannert likes this.
  19. jazzabel
    Offline

    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    4,273
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    @minstrel: As funny as that is, and as determined as I am to not engage with any argumentativeness-for-argumentativeness-sake comments, I will report any post that is abusive. Not that any have been in this thread yet, nor do I anticipate that they will be, I just want to make sure we aren't making this into a grotto pit from hell. I don't think members should be wary of reading or commenting on threads for fear of intimidation or being drawn into arguments by excessively rude and argumentative members. Everyone is responsible for their own words, not somebody's outrageous interpretation of them, designed to provoke an argument.

    This thread is supposed to discuss a heroic deed of one very brave person. I think it should be moderated well, out of respect :)
     
  20. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,602
    Likes Received:
    5,877
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    I'm a little shocked, maybe I shouldn't be, that given the circumstances of this 'brings tears to your eyes' hero, and the relief this story did not end in yet more weeks of national mourning and discourse about the slew of murder victims killed by a lone gunman, that my thread title brought out so many knee jerk political sensitivities.

    First, the god matter. Just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean I begrudge god believers their theism. I should be able to say what I think about god myths just as anyone should be able to say what they believe about gods without anyone being offended or bothered. If those beliefs involve insults such as telling a group of people their natural biology is somehow immoral, or if the issue is separation of church and state, that's a different matter.

    In this case, it would seem this hero's church doesn't just preach, love thy neighbor, if she is any example, they also practice it. She was frightened almost out of her wits (she managed to keep them) as you can hear at the beginning when she wants to run, and at the end when it's over. But in the middle, it truly comes out that she cares about this disturbed kid.

    There have been the usual round of talking heads on the news including police and FBI hostage negotiators talking about how skilled this woman was. What struck me was, to them it's a skill you have to learn, pretend you care. This woman actually did care, as far as I can see. She didn't see the kid as a bad guy with a gun, she saw a stressed sad mentally ill human being with a gun.

    It may have turned out differently had it been an actual bad guy with a gun. I doubt one could have calmed one of those rage shooters down as easily. People who blame everyone else for all their failures until they explode in a murder rage are in a different category, as are people whose rage was created by brainwashing ideology. But more than a few of these mass shooters are not rage killers, they are mentally ill. The police don't allow themselves to make that distinction. The way I see it, this hero also talked the cops down during the incident. Listen to how many times she says to the dispatch operator that the kid is not a threat. I hear sincerity in her voice.

    And how clever she was to say, "Hill is my last name too." I was impressed by that little gem.


    OK, so on to the second issue, my thread title which seems to have created instant ire in some people. Think I'll put that in a second post after another cup of coffee. I want to be clear and concise about that matter, even if I have little hope it will matter.
     
    jazzabel likes this.
  21. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    501
    As a gun rights advocate, I applaud this woman for her bravery and yes, she is a hero and should be given any and all accolades that come with such selfless heroism.

    I also applaud the women who shoot would-be assailants in order to protect their families.

    I don't agree with the semantics of LaPierre's statement. There is not one perfect way to prevent someone killing another human being. Every situation is different and sometimes a good guy with a gun can do more harm to a situation than a mother figure with a soft, accepting voice.

    Does verbal judo and compassion work in disarming would-be mass murderers 100% of the time? No. Does having a shoot out work in disarming them? I would say not 100% of the time.

    So is this woman a hero for using the tools she had available? Most definitely. Does that mean that words are better than guns? No, it just means in this one instance the deranged individual was predisposed to accept the words of a caring woman. However in the majority of mass shootings, she would have been just another name in the list of victims.
     
  22. IronPalm
    Offline

    IronPalm Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    21
    What's with the selective implementation of the rules? And as usual, it occurs in a topic where one particular member writes posts that are either off-topic, sexist rants, or simply insults towards other members. Again, does he/she have some special forum privileges I'm unaware of?

     
  23. Wreybies
    Offline

    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    18,837
    Likes Received:
    10,015
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    Actually, you are unaware of the measures we take behind the threads because we do not make public proclamations of remonstrations made to members for behavior in the forum.

    What I will say is this: Those who report and those upon whom are reported tend to all come from the same tight group of forum members. There is little variation. Funny, init?
     
    jannert likes this.
  24. IronPalm
    Offline

    IronPalm Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    21
    Fair enough, dude.

    I hate reporting posts, but then you have moderators like Dante Dases who actually admonish me for replying to (very) mildly insulting posts instead of reporting them. So this behavior, while it creates more headaches for you, is actually encouraged by at least one mod.
     
  25. minstrel
    Offline

    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    8,723
    Likes Received:
    4,821
    Location:
    Near Los Angeles
    Sheesh. Read what I said again, with particular attention to how it was phrased. It was not a statement that this thread would not be moderated and it was not a statement saying reported posts would be ignored by moderators. It was a plea.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page