Short Story Are many destined to flounder? If so, why bother?

Discussion in 'Genre Discussions' started by Credulous Skeptic, Apr 5, 2009.

  1. Aeroflot

    Aeroflot New Member

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    I think the fact of the matter is this: most of us are amateurs with varying degrees of success, talent, experience, etc and we're constantly comparing ourselves to ourselves, ourselves to others, and others to others; and we're thinking that nobody really gets anywhere, except for a select magical few. Well, I bet that if people actually spent a good deal of time proofing and rewriting, then we'd see better results. There's just not enough time being spent thinking about the story, and not enough time applied to revision. That's just my opinion, but I feel that's the truth. There aren't bad writers, just ones who don't clean up their stories before asking for a critique.
     
  2. lynneandlynn

    lynneandlynn New Member

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    I'd agree with that. Then again, I'd rather get a critique on a rough version that way I don't feel like I've done all I can and then have to go back and change everything if that makes sense.
     
  3. Miswrite

    Miswrite New Member

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    Wow, really? That's a terrible situation. Are you taking any medication? My aforementioned relative did, and they got somewhat better. Don't let it get you down, ever. As far as I know, every author/artist is insane in some way. I mean, come on. Van Gogh cut off his ear. Edgar Allan Poe did drugs, gambled, and was an alcoholic. All the great genuises were insane and managed to become what they are today. Your struggle gives you much more options to write about - even using your own experiences with BPD to write a fictional yet realistic book about someone with it would sell great, and you would send out a message to others with the disorder that they are not alone.
     
  4. JZydowicz

    JZydowicz New Member

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    I think that people with more "talent" have a worse chance of becoming successful writers (and it probably holds true for anything) because they don't need to try as hard to create something on an equal level as someone with less "talent". If this pattern continues, the person with less "talent" continually tries harder and builds a strong work ethic, which is essential to writing, while the less "talented" individual gets by by doing little and never really develops that work ethic.
     
  5. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Listen guy - I suffer from bipolar disorder too, and I know what it's like.
    The trick is to learn how to manage it, and accept it when in a bad moment comes.
    If you ever want advice on controlling it, or even utilising it into your writing, just ask.
    It is something I've become rather experienced at.
     
  6. keeklies

    keeklies New Member

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    There's no such thing as a born writer. And talent is overrated. The only way to be successful (in anything, really) is through practice and feedback. This means allowing more experienced writers to read your work and tell you what needs to be improved. And then go and improve it. And then ask for feedback again and improve again. Rewrite the story from scratch if you need to. Repeat one thousand times.

    The other thing is reading writing books. And take notes on every one you read. Review your notes regularly. Start doing critiques for other writers and apply the technical knowledge you have learned from the writing books. Not only will you impress others with your skills, but it will improve your own writing by learning to identify flaws in other people's writing.

    Also, don't just read the first five pages of novels, read the whole thing - hundreds of them. In every genre possible.

    If you truly want to be a successful writer, this is the path you've got to take. You cannot just sit down at a keyboard and expect to pump out a great story when you haven't put in the leg work first.
     
  7. KP Williams

    KP Williams Active Member

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    If I have to read everything in sight, then I guess I'm doomed to failure. I have very specific tastes in reading, and no, I'm not going to change them. :D
     
  8. Dr. Doctor

    Dr. Doctor New Member

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    Nah, you can read whatever you want. I think the point is just not to skimp out on reading. Read everything you get the opportunity to. Doesn't have to be novels, just...keep your eyes exercised. ;)
     
  9. keeklies

    keeklies New Member

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    Heh heh... I don't mean to read EVERY genre. If you hate a particular genre or style then by all means don't read it. I just meant we should keep our reading interests broad so that we can expose ourselves to as many learning opportunities as possible.
     
  10. Credulous Skeptic

    Credulous Skeptic New Member

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    Hi Lemex and everyone else,

    Luckily my medicine keeps my disorder under control. (I also have OCD, lol. I was diagnosed with it a few days before I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I'm a little unlucky. But at least I'm alive.) I didn't even write much at all until after I "lost it". I submitted several short stories to Vocabula, where only the smartest people alive ever get published. I don't know what I was thinking! I thought I would be a regular contributor. What could I possibly write about? Eating at McDonalds?
     
  11. lynneandlynn

    lynneandlynn New Member

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    ..Am I the only writer who forces herself to read the novels of genres I hate?

    I do it b/c I figure it allows me to learn more about writing, whether I enjoy the topic/genre or not. And nine times out of ten if the book is well-written, I'll find myself enjoying it despite myself...

    ~Lynn
     
  12. RomanticRose

    RomanticRose Active Member

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    I make myself read things I don't like for several reasons. One -- never underestimate the power of a bad example. Two -- even books I dislike sell lots of copies. That is what I read for sometimes -- particularly with breakout novels. What got this particular collection of words out of the slush pile? What made the publisher back it up with a serious marketing budget?
     
  13. lynneandlynn

    lynneandlynn New Member

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    Yay for not being alone :-D
     
  14. Aeroflot

    Aeroflot New Member

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    I don't care much for reading outside of my genre, but I make sure to read heavy literature, like Turgenev and Kafka, and lighter stuff, such as Murakami and Carver. There's just too much I want to read within my own preferred genres to spend time reading stuff I don't want to read.
     
  15. RomanticRose

    RomanticRose Active Member

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    For me, there is reading for enjoyment and there is reading for education. Sometimes the two overlap, but not always. I slogged through The DaVinci Code, Twilight (the first book only) and Harry Potter (also only the first book) and several others that just aren't my schtick. The spousal unit read Eragon and told me not to bother. He's one of the few whose opinion I take without question.
     
  16. lynneandlynn

    lynneandlynn New Member

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    I don't think there's anyone whose opinion I take without question...I've always been the kind of person that's had to prove something to myself. Dunno why, just always have been that way.
     
  17. RomanticRose

    RomanticRose Active Member

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    When it comes to books, fantasy in particular since that is his genre, I trust his opinion.
     
  18. RIPPA MATE

    RIPPA MATE New Member

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    and he's right :D
    I'd trust his opinion as well.
     
  19. Dalouise

    Dalouise New Member

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    I don't read outside my genre, unless there are very special circumstances - for example, I get a copy from the author who lives in the same town as me. In that case, I really did enjoy it but it doesn't make me a fan of that genre, just that author.
    I certainly wouldn't read anything that doesn't appeal to me because I read for entertainment and enjoyment. I slogged through too many "heavy" works of literature to want to read more. Life is too short.
    My writing is along the same lines. I enjoy writing it and hope that others would be entertained or gain enjoyment from it. The feedback from my one book out there in the world indicates that I have done this successfully but whether or not it holds any literary merit, I don't know and frankly don't care.
    We all write for different reasons and many of us may never be published but we gain personal satisfaction in completing a novel, a short story or a poem and I think it would be wrong to discourage anyone from expressing themselves in this way.
     
  20. lynneandlynn

    lynneandlynn New Member

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    Yep. Agreed.
     
  21. daydreamer

    daydreamer New Member

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    I tend to only read children's and teen fiction because I need to for work but that isn't my genre of writing.
     
  22. Atari

    Atari Active Member

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    But this 'attitude' is really only an attitude if he still intends to write.
    If he has no intention of writing ever again, then it is fruitless to ignore his question and try 'encouraging' him.

    If you think that I want everyone to say, "Yeah, you're right, I guess you don't have the talent,' then you have missed not only the point of what I am saying, but also what HE is saying.

    Anyway, it looks like he is glad to be encouraged. That, to me, seems almost a little hypocritical on his part, but hey; if he becomes a great writer, then more power to him.
     
  23. lynneandlynn

    lynneandlynn New Member

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    Atari,

    You make a good point. I think I had more to say but I forgot what it was.

    ~Lynn
     
  24. Atari

    Atari Active Member

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    Probably because we reached the point of diminishing returns a long time ago, and there is truly nothing more worth saying.

    But-- I could be wrong. :D
     
  25. Henry The Purple

    Henry The Purple Active Member

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    Listen, you yourself admited the encouragment did some good. Tbh, this thread looks more like a cry for help disguised under a tone of resignation. Surely you recognised that?

    Instead of helping, you went on about him realizing he didnt have any talent (and then you tagged on 'maybe' to lessen the impact), which is mighty discouraging for anyone to read. As I said before, people are the managers of their talent, not the owners. You also said the OP would be annoyed by encouraging comments, which really wasnt the case...
     

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