Author Joe Konrath turns down $500,000 deal to Self Publish

Could you point to some places where you found this (the threat of being dropped, that is). Because I haven't seen that mentioned on any of the forums I'm on.

But you also included "(if at all)" - and that's the fault of the author not paying attention.

This is the part I was talking about. Sure, there might be errors in trade published books, but I can practically guarantee that they will not be as numerous or as drastic as those in most self-published books, and that's because of the professionals dealing with them. But the idea that it's okay to make revisions after the book is published because readers are complaining en masse ("consistent complaint") tells me the author didn't do a proper edit before publishing - thus, the readers become the betas.


About advances -

There's nothing bad about not earning out an advance. It means that the publisher miscalculated sales and the author is thus getting paid for sales that didn't happen. This is, as you mentioned, not at all unusual. Publishers know that they can't predict sales with 100% accuracy. Now, if the author consistently has sales waaaay below expectations, it's more than likely they will be dropped - but that's just common sense.

And thirdwind is correct - advances are never paid back to the publisher unless that publisher is some kind of scam. If one sees that in a contract, one shouldn't be signing, and never with that publisher.

 

It's in almost all the big contracts.

Three friends of mine signed contracts like that.

But then, 400, 000 is hard to turn down.

 

The "threat of being dropped"? That's not what I said. I said you're likely to be dropped if you don't assist with marketing because publishers don't market for new authors like they used to. Consequently you don't earn out your advance, and you're likely to be dropped. Also, if you write a certain style, or certain genre, and you don't seem to be relevant anymore they will likely drop you for that as well. As far as links, I'm not the type of person to keep spreadsheets of my research, so I didn't have them on hand. I googled and got tons. Selected three and was going to post them, but you'll probably see them as anecdotal anyway. One is a USA Today article published on the 6th of this month. Another from Chris Holifield (writers services), and one with Donald Maass' Literary Agency. It shouldn't be hard to find.

I didn't say it wasn't the fault of the author for signing. But you also can't deny that it DOES happen, especially when authors are so desperate to be "legitimately" published.

Sure, it happens. It especially happens when people think they can publish crap that they haven't edited or bothered to even have someone else read. Those books sink to the bottom, as they should. I have to say that authors need to be more professional, and need to learn how to recognize problems with their own work. They have to learn to be objective, and you'll find post after post stating that just on this forum alone. I disagree that changing a cover, fixing an error, or adjusting price for better sales constitutes using readers as beta's. You'd be amazed how many consistent complaints there are about a word being misspelled or quotation marks missing (in one spot) turning up on even trad pub book reviews.

I'm sure you'll want examples of that as well, so look up Nora Roberts' bride series. And she's trad pubbed, and is a serious high earner (She's worth millions just from her writing). She had the best of the best, and they still missed a lot.

But there is, if you do that consistently, or even are just too far from making it back for the pub, you WILL get dropped in almost all cases. It's not supposition, it's fact (which you agree on). The thing is, when we go back to marketing, you have to do much of it yourself or you risk being dropped because your sales are too low. This also is common sense.

And I never said anything about publishers expecting advances back. Though, to back that up for the person who said it, there have been instances where legitimate publishers have asked for their advance back, and held the novel hostage until they got it. You can find that in the USA Today article as well.

What it comes down to though, is that we have very different opinions and stances on this subject. I respect your opinion. I don't begrudge anyone going the trad pub route, and I don't expect anyone to believe they have the right to judge my choice either. Because it's mine. I'm well aware that there are many people, such as yourself, that think that all self-pubs are garbage. And that's fine, they can keep their money and spend it on a thirteen dollar ebook instead. But the number of people that believe that is getting smaller every day.

 

Actually, it's not.

Are you talking dollars here? I'm sorry, but I find this very hard to believe.

 

Then don't believe it.

 

I'd have to agree with thirdwind, unless you're friends with Colleen Hoover and such. And if so - lucky you.

 

I have never heard of being out-right dropped, but I have heard plenty of times that publishers will give up on you if you don't pull your weight, or at least try along with them to help you succeed (when your newly published book is floundering).

To clarify, helping with marketing means promoting yourself and other little things like that. No publisher expects you to pay for a commercial or something of that magnitude. But they do expect you to try your best locally, in your local bookstores and radio stations. The easy stuff.

P.S. I see errors in traditional published works all the time. Humans are only human after all.

 

I have seen quite a few debut deals on Publishers Marketplace go for 500K+.

 

Interesting. I've seen them, but mostly from people like Colleen Hoover, who have already sold an unbelievable number of books through self-pub. Not anyone that didn't already have a following. Maybe I missed some, heh.

 

The latest one I have seen is this one from the other day:

Fiction:
Debut
MA in fiction from Johns Hopkins and MFA from UC-Irvine, now high school teacher in New York, Matthew Thomas's debut novel WE ARE NOT OURSELVES, a sprawling portrait of the Irish-American Leary family -- Ed, Eileen, and their son Connell -- as they move from Jackson Heights, Queens to Bronxville, New York in pursuit of the American dream, as Eileen's unblinking determination to better the family's status is challenged by her husband's dedication to teaching -- and ultimately, devastatingly, by a diagnosis of early-onset Alzheimer's, to Marysue Rucci at Simon & Schuster, in a major deal, at auction, for publication in 2014, by Bill Clegg at William Morris Endeavor (NA).
UK rights to Clare Reihill at Fourth Estate, at auction, by Elizabeth Sheinkman at William Morris Endeavor.

For those of you who don't read the website, "major deal," means 500k+. And while I don't see this everyday, or even weekly, it does happen. What is more exciting is that more and more debut authors are getting multi-book deals. I see one almost everyday--sometimes two in a day. Which makes me happy--since I am writing a series, even after being told a thousand times not to.

Edit: The debut deals going for 500k+ that I see are usually multi-book deals and or went to auction.

Edit#2: Here's another one, on the same day as the above:

April 15, 2013

Fiction:
Debut
Curtis Brown Creative Writing course student Jessie Burton's historical novel THE MINIATURIST, aet in Amsterdam in 1686, it follows a country girl as she marries a much older man, who gives her a miniature version of their house -- and events within their own home begin to mirror the small version, to Lee Boudreaux at Ecco (US), in a six-figure deal, at auction; and to Francesca Main at Picador, in a major deal, at auction; for publication in July 2014, by Juliet Mushens at The Agency Group (UK/Commonwealth, excl. Canada).
Rights to Harper Canada; Intrinseca in Brazil, in a pre-empt; Salamandra in Spain, in a pre-empt; and to Marga de Boer at Luitingh-Sijthoff in Holland, by Marianne Schönbach at Marianne Schönbach Literary Agency on behalf of Sasha Raskin at The Agency Group.

 

I've seen a few deals like that as well. But my issue with Nee's post is the part about the three friends signing contracts requiring the author to pay back the advance (or part of it). It's hard to imagine someone taking a $400k advance knowing that he/she may have to pay part of it (or all of it) back if the book doesn't sell enough copies. You'd have to be really confident or really crazy to sign a contract like that.

 

Yeah, that seems a little crazy to me too (the going through with the risk part). I have heard of this stipulation in a contract before in author/agents interviews/podcasts before, though. I don't think it's that common, however.

 

Publishers have asked for advances to be paid back when the author has failed to uphold their part of the contract. That's not the publisher being nasty; that's basic contract law. And I will repeat that any publisher who would demand repayment for anything other than contractual failure is not a publisher you want to do business with - ie, a scam.

And, Trish, if you read my other posts throughout this forum, you will see that I am not one of those who considers all SP to be garbage. In fact, you should see that while I'm not an actual proponent of SP, I am not in the least antagonistic towards it or its authors (with the exception of people like Konrath) and have 'stood up for' SP on more than one occasion. But I don't believe in letting misinformation or misunderstandings about how things work stand without comment. I am not judging your decision - not only do I have no right to, but I have no reason to. I wish you the best of luck with it.

 

That's pretty awesome Good for them!

Funny that you mentioned being told not to write a series. In self-pub it seems that's one of the BEST things you can do. It's heavily encouraged.

 

I plan on self-publishing if I can't go the traditional route. But, I guess I am vain, I want to try and get my work published the traditional route--just for physical copies and bragging rights. :redface:

 

It's not a scam or unheard of. I have heard it said in interviews, podcasts, vlogs and blogs--from agents, authors, editors and publishers.

It's just not that common. However, it should put up a red flag for you to check out, because it could be a scam publisher. But not every single one that does it is scamming.

 

LOL, I actually consider going the self-pub route more vain, in some ways anyway. Not for the reasons most people do (not accepting criticism, believing trad pubs are idiots, etc.) but because I'm a total control freak with this.

 

That's right. One way this clause is sometimes applied is, say your sales for the first book of a three book deal is selling okay...not great, just okay. The publisher will start getting worried and will want to see what you have going for the second book. They don't like it. They want you to stop writing it and do something else. But you've been working on it for months! They don't care. So you better get going because they still want what ever you come up with on the original deadline. If you don't deliver a book (that they'll accept) then they'll demand the portion of the advance that covers that book back.

...And you still have to produce the third book on deadline

It's a really good idea to have three novels that no one knows about sitting in a vault somewhere, ya know what I mean...?

 

Truf.

 

Haha, I never thought about that angle.

 

Yeah, those are contractual issues - the author not living up to their part of the bargain.

 

Yup, that is standard. I wonder if this is what Nee was talking about the entire time, but accidentally made it seem he was talking about the other, non-standard clause?

 

Nothing wrong with being a control freak when it is your own self who you are controlling. I commend you on your previous post regarding the reasons you chose to self publish. I checked out your profile, website, blog etc., and saw that last night you placed your novel, Courage! on Amazon. Congrats!

From the bottom of my heart, I wish you all the success in the world Trish.

 

True enough! I try to rein myself in when I try to control others Except for my dogs, I mean that's necessary. Right?

I appreciate that, and I thank you It's not up yet (takes time for Amazon to make it available) but I look forward to seeing how it goes!

 

I checked a couple of times myself, but nothing yet. I'm excited for you. Would you let me know when it comes up?

Next, on to marketing.