Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. J.P.Clyde
    Offline

    J.P.Clyde Prince of Melancholy Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    Underground

    Baby Control

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by J.P.Clyde, Jun 12, 2014.

    Ah humour, like the eye of the storm.

    Either way.

    You know what never made much sense to me? Paper forms. More specifically. When you want to adopt a kitten or puppy, you have to sign papers and forms. You have to tell the agency my home is awesome.

    If you want to adopt a child or foster a kid, you have to sign papers and forms. Except, in this case sometimes those people are still assholes.

    So, why aren't we doing this with regular people just to have a baby? You want to put your man part in the lady part and squirt one out, then we have to check your home, your temperament, etc.

    We need a fit parent program, I think at least. We need to I don't know actually make sure the kids are getting good homes before we decide to birth one out. As much as I'm glad I am here in this world. My parents were 18 when they had me. One of my parents physically and emotionally abused me all my life. Children shouldn't have to go through that shit. I don't care how much you want a little mini me, if you can't take care of it, then you shouldn't be allowed to have one.

    Oh yeah I see the can of worms I just opened. Hopefully people don't take this to far.
     
  2. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh
    Offline

    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    743
    Location:
    Music Room #3
    I actually like that idea, but I doubt it would work.
     
  3. J.P.Clyde
    Offline

    J.P.Clyde Prince of Melancholy Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    Underground
    I should clarify what I mean by regulations:

    -You should have a house fit enough for a baby
    -You should have an income requirement, sorry that's the biggest welfare trap imo and I hate to sound like an ass. But if you're poor and cannot even support yourself a baby ain't going to make it better.
    -And a background check, just in case you know you've been in jail, known for battery and assault

    Not only that, but we should be allowing abortion to be an option too. I know what this is going to start. But making stuff a forbidden fruit and teaching people nothing doesn't actually well ya know work. You can't just tell them to say no. We need an, idk actual sex education. And we need to say "if you want to have sex, that's okay, but be safe" and "if you don't wan to have sex, that's okay too"

    Parents should also be more involved. And that's why I wish regulations like this should occur. To, idk, teach their kids things. There's a nifty concept.

    -give your kids "the talk" well before they hit puberty
    -tell your kid its okay to choose what they want with their body, talking about sex
    -giving more options, instead of No you can't

    Idk why the man who sees pink hippopotamus and one time had a conversation with the wall, can build a better society than those actually sane.
     
    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh likes this.
  4. Ben414
    Offline

    Ben414 Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Messages:
    974
    Likes Received:
    785
    I dislike these ideas strongly. It opens up a can of worms that can lead to awful, awful things such as when US facilities were sterilizing mentally ill women against their will. Where would these regulations end?

    When a baby is up for adoption, there is actually a choice to make. You can decide which parents among the applicants to send the kid to. Doing background checks, checks on the home environment, etc., can allow you to ensure a basic level of care among those who have volunteered to adopt the baby. Procreation, on the other hand, is seen as a fundamental right in most countries. There are not multiple parents vying for a child here, so there are not multiple decisions available. The only decision is whether to forcefully prevent people from procreating.
     
  5. J.P.Clyde
    Offline

    J.P.Clyde Prince of Melancholy Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    Underground

    Well no. I don't see the Fit Program as saying, no you can't have a kid. Instead I see the Fit Parent Program going, okay so you don't meet these requirements. Here are a few classes and we'll help you out.

    I'm sorry, even if it's seen a fundamental right. Some people shouldn't have children, period.

    If you're not teaching your children about

    -Sexual Education
    -Reality and Fiction [violent video games]
    -How to cope with isolation [horrendous bullying]
    -The Talk [puberty]
    -Alcohol [alcohol abuse, partying teenagers]

    Then you shouldn't be a parent. All the arguments we have seen pop up in the last couple years, I see it as a failure of Education and Parentucation. [that's parental education]

    And:

    -Abuse and Poverty

    People who abuse people and abuse kids, shouldn't have children. If they had one kid who was taken away because they abused a kid, we know they will hit another, so they shouldn't be allowed to have another child.

    Poverty breeds crime. So we are going to say, you live in a shitty neighbor, and have no way of supporting yourself. You earned the fundamental right to have a kid. No. You cannot even support that kid with the benefits of life.
     
  6. stevesh
    Offline

    stevesh Banned Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    968
    Likes Received:
    646
    Location:
    Mid-Michigan USA
    As with so many things of this sort, you're starting with an assumption that government employees and bureaucrats are smarter than the rest of us and know better than we do how we should live our lives. My experience is that the exact opposite is true.

    I can't even imagine a reason why you, or anyone, would give the State and its minions control over your reproduction. Isn't that what Roe vs. Wade was all about ?

    There are bad parents, some of them in foster homes, despite all the bureaucratic 'controls' in place. The suggestion that we should allow the government to tell us when or whether we can have children is ugly and offensive.
     
    sunsplash likes this.
  7. Ben414
    Offline

    Ben414 Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Messages:
    974
    Likes Received:
    785
    How would we possibly know whether parents will teach their children about these things before they either do or don't do them?

    I would agree to funding programs that would keep some tabs on abusive parents, depending on its extent. But once again, where is the practicality in doing so? Do you take away their future children if they are born, also infringing upon the rights of the mother?

    The only way that I can think of is to sterilize the parents after they abuse a child. I see child rearing as a fundamental right; that doesn't mean it can NEVER be infringed. What it does mean to me is that if there is a potential solution that wouldn't require infringing on it, we give it a shot. Keeping more tabs on abusive parents seems like a better solution than sterilizing them. There is no guarantee that abusive parents will remain abusive, and they already face separate criminal penalties.

    As I have stated earlier, where is the practicality in doing so? Do you sterilize all people who live in extreme poverty? Because those people could potentially rise out of poverty. Once again, I see a better solution than infringing upon the right to procreation is better funded social workers and those that can take children away from parents who can't take care of their children.
     
  8. J.P.Clyde
    Offline

    J.P.Clyde Prince of Melancholy Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    Underground
    I think I am a poor at communicating.

    I see the Fit Parent Program, which I have coined as a term now, as one that Assist People. They do not say you cannot breed. My personal viewpoint is that they should never get to breed. But I do know that it would be discriminating rights of people or they would feel like it.

    The FPP, would instead look through people who wanted to have kids. They would see their income, etc. They would then help people who may have problems. Have them classes and help them out looking for better paying jobs. Working as a sorta support agency. They wouldn't exist to say no you can't have a baby, they exist to say "before you have a baby think about this, here we can hand you support in those areas"

    As to how I know people won't teach their kids, I simply assume because I see a whole lack of it.
     
  9. thirdwind
    Offline

    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    7,351
    Likes Received:
    2,891
    Location:
    Boston
    I would argue that reproductive rights are some of the most fundamental rights we have. This includes choosing to have a child. Yes, I agree that certain parents are not fit to raise children, but I'm not sure I agree that they should automatically lose their rights because of that.
     
  10. J.P.Clyde
    Offline

    J.P.Clyde Prince of Melancholy Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    Underground
    Feels like no one is reading what he is writing.
     
  11. Ben414
    Offline

    Ben414 Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Messages:
    974
    Likes Received:
    785
    I guess I would be okay with that. The US already has a social work system that is supposed to assist families in these manners, and this system probably just needs to be better funded or overhauled. I don't know much about parental assistance programs in other countries.
     
  12. thirdwind
    Offline

    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    7,351
    Likes Received:
    2,891
    Location:
    Boston
    There are several problems to your Fit Parent Program. For one, taking classes or getting a degree won't guarantee a good paying job. Second, looking for better paying jobs is easier said than done, especially when the job market is bad. Third, people would have to be willing to get help. There are already similar programs out there, and they don't seem to be helping very much. I also don't think talking to kids about sex, alcohol, etc. should be mandatory. I know a lot of people who came from conservative backgrounds and were never taught these things, and they're doing just fine.

    Also, birth rates are declining in developed countries. This is because of education, access to wealth, and contraception. Instead of trying to discourage poor people from having kids, maybe we should look at why they tend to have more kids in the first place and go from there.
     
  13. Killian Jones
    Offline

    Killian Jones Banned

    Joined:
    May 5, 2014
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Trenton, NJ
    In civilized society, we understand that there is a delicate balance between freedom and tyranny. There are times when the authority, with permission from the people, deem it necessary to restrict freedom in order to gain a measurable greater good for all.

    This crosses that line by quite a large margin.
     
    Wyr likes this.
  14. Garball
    Offline

    Garball Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand. Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    2,846
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    Location:
    S'port, LA
    What is the punishment for having a child even though you don't qualify for the FPP?
     
  15. Killian Jones
    Offline

    Killian Jones Banned

    Joined:
    May 5, 2014
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Trenton, NJ
    Imprisonment or death, if history is any judge. :)

    Also, I can see the 'qualifications' for being allowed to have a child being shifted to political ideations or limited to non-religious or doctrinally-specific parents.
     
  16. thirdwind
    Offline

    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    7,351
    Likes Received:
    2,891
    Location:
    Boston
    What if you become rich, have a kid, and then lose all your money? What if you're only rich enough to support one child and your wife gives birth to twins?
     
  17. Garball
    Offline

    Garball Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand. Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    2,846
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    Location:
    S'port, LA
    When a female is born, their ovaries are put on ice until she and her significant other can somehow prove to maybe be potentially decent parents at best.
     
  18. J.P.Clyde
    Offline

    J.P.Clyde Prince of Melancholy Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    Underground

    I'm sorry if you're not making money and bringing in the bacon. Why bring a child into this world? It seems unnaturally cruel and stupid because "you want a baby"
     
  19. Killian Jones
    Offline

    Killian Jones Banned

    Joined:
    May 5, 2014
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Trenton, NJ
    No offense, but people have been having babies for millennia without having money. My great-grandparents had 12 children in a small four room house built by my great grandfather. Sure, they didn't have an xbox or Internet or television but in my opinion it isn't material wealth or possessions that make a life.
     
  20. J.P.Clyde
    Offline

    J.P.Clyde Prince of Melancholy Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    Underground
    Neither is a diet of ramen. I'm not talking Xbox and Internet. And we're living a different time than great grandma and grandpappy. Our economy is suckish.

    You know I have aunt. She had a baby, and as much as I am grateful. At the same time, both her and her husband are unemployed.

    Do you know who gets the baby diapers and formula?

    Other people. If you can't buy your baby diapers, if you have to ask people for help. Then that's where I draw the line. That is your child. If you want to bring one into the world you should have the money to support it with the needs and necessaries of life.
     
  21. Killian Jones
    Offline

    Killian Jones Banned

    Joined:
    May 5, 2014
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Trenton, NJ
    The question is who determines the 'needs and necessities of life'? You? The government?

    Breast milk is free and cloth diapers can be reused. Even a family considered poor can be a happy, healthy family even if they are looked down upon in our society. Life is made whole and fulfilling by family, friends and God, all of which are free. Everything else is simply small potatoes.
     
  22. J.P.Clyde
    Offline

    J.P.Clyde Prince of Melancholy Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    Underground
    *cough*

    I'm sorry. I cannot continue this argument with you. Do not take offense. You brought something into this argument I cannot even take seriously.
     
  23. Killian Jones
    Offline

    Killian Jones Banned

    Joined:
    May 5, 2014
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Trenton, NJ
    This is simply the opinion of an old writer, pay no attention to me. I've buried one of my children and while we didn't always have a lot of money, the pond on our property is where some of my favorite memories were made.

    I did not mean to offend.
     
  24. J.P.Clyde
    Offline

    J.P.Clyde Prince of Melancholy Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    Underground
    You didn't offend me. Well offend isn't the word. I just sorta stop getting into an argument when someone mentions a certain thing that I cannot argue with because in their mind it is the answer to everything.
     
  25. Killian Jones
    Offline

    Killian Jones Banned

    Joined:
    May 5, 2014
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Trenton, NJ
    You mean God? Well, part of what makes a civilized society great is a whole bunch of people that believe different things respecting each other. I've come to my own beliefs since I was brought into this world, but everyone takes different paths and arrives at different destinations. But I guess thats kind of off topic, though.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page