But, if you write a book that's likely to sell, you're probably better off publishing it yourself. If you write a book that the publisher decides they're going to push as hard as they did something like Twilight, yes, you're better off going with the publisher. But most books, they won't.
That statement only makes sense if you know a book is going to sell. How does any writer know their books will sell by the truckload? Those who already have sold millions of copies. Another way to take what you said is to assume that every writer who tries to publish thinks they wrote something worthwhile. Very few authors try to publish thinking their work is rubbish or of poor quality. It's quite the opposite. So, if I write a book that will sell, odds are I think I wrote gold when I wrote pyrite.
But "likely to sell" depends enormously on whether prospective readers (1) ever hear about the book and (2) trust that it will be good when they do hear about it. How is that going to happen? You can say that you'll put lots of hours into marketing, but the traditional publishers are putting lots of hours, and experience, and professional effort, and long-established contacts, and advertising budget, into marketing their products. How are you going to beat them? And that's ignoring the idea that a professional editor who has brought dozens of books to market might know a little more than an unpublished writer, about how to polish a book.
I have had plenty of experience in the book world, from the perspective of a writer, publisher, librarian and average reader, and, from such experience, I can tell you this: If you wrote your book/manuscript already, then it's worthwhile for you to go full throttle and have it published. Now, you ask, how do you go about publishing? The answer: In this day and age, have the book published through your own direct efforts, and not through a publisher. Before, book authors were at the mercy of publishers because there was just no ability to publish without a traditional publisher. That's not the case now, and so do not think of it that way. Think of it this blunt way: The perfect analogy of the decline in the need or, really, the value of a traditional publisher is the need for a travel agent to book a flight. So, let me ask you this: When is the last time you had a travel agent book your flight in consideration of the advent of online airfare sales? With that retort, the sky is the limit with you in the control of the publishing of your book. [links removed]
It's true that you can't say if a book will sell, there is no way to know this for sure, including traditional publishers. They've often taken on books that don't sell. The way I see it, if you have good material, it will sell regardless of how you go about publishing it. Some ebooks were bestsellers and #1s before the print books (that landed in other numbers somewhere in the top 10) so really anything is possible. I've tried traditional publishing and got rejected numerous times. No surprise there, it was expected. But I've been in touch with authors who were accepted their first time and their books are... well.. let's just say not the BEST books out there. And I was surprised... really? The first time? Whereas other books that were always rejected such as the Harry Potters or the Stephen King novels... they're HUGE now. Imagine if these authors self-published waaaay before all those rejections? They would have seen their success faster. And don't tell me that Harry Potter and Stephen King sell a lot because they went with traditional publishing. If they went by ebook they would have sold just as much if not more. So again, yes, many authors who self publish think they have great work when its mediocre. True. Likewise, many traditionally published books aren't of great quality either. It's a gamble no matter how you choose to publish. The only difference is that e-publishing gives you far more control and power over what you do with your book. Now I know this is a BAD example... but hear me out before you scoff. 50 Shades of Gray. This started out as random fan fiction on a website and ONLY became published BECAUSE of it's online popularity. Otherwise, it would have been rejected and rejected and rejected. Is this a good quality book? Hells no! But does that matter? Hells no! Point is, it sold. Was it likely to? Most people would have said no. And it started as a self-published thing on some website. So like I was saying before, neither guarantees quality nor sales. It's just two different ways of publishing and neither is better or more efficient than the other (except ebooks save trees).
Re: > The way I see it, if you have good material, it will sell regardless of how you go about publishing it. The world isn't that fair. People aren't going to spend hours and hours and hours digging for the one good item in a pile of thousands of bad ones. If one person happens upon that good item and tells the world how great it is, the world isn't going to pay any more attention to them than they do to the thousands of people trying to sell every other product in the world. No matter how loud you shout, countless other people are shouting just as loud. Sometimes everything goes right for someone and a self-published author is lucky enough to be recognized. (For example, 50 Shades.) But there you're depending on a lightning strike of luck; with traditional publishing you're depending on professionals who have done this many times before. The solution for self-publishing is a solution to the evaluation problem. If I could go online and find a website where I could search for books that, to make up some criteria: - Rated at least a seven out of ten in plot - And eight out of ten on characters - As rated by at least one hundred independent amateur reviewers who have a reviewer rating of at least eight out of ten - Who match my reading taste score to a level of at least eighty percent then I'd give the books that passed a chance, whether they were traditionally published or not. But even if the reviewing system existed, and even if hundreds of thousands of people wrote millions of reviews, and even if the system were strictly managed to minimize opportunities for paid/fake reviews, getting that rating would likely be as hard as, or harder than, getting traditionally published. The people who are complaining that agents and publishers don't recognize their genius would then be complaining that the independent amateur reviewer community doesn't recognize their genius. It would still be a good thing, because books that appeal to too small a reading community to be worth a publisher's time, would get a chance to be read. But I don't think that it would make a bit of difference for books in categories that the traditional publishers are serving, because the traditional publishers still have professionals on the job--all the jobs, not just the writing.
Drifting back to add: Another dandy value of self-publishing, I realize after looking up something about Dana Stabenow, is as an outlet for books whose rights have reverted to the author, that might never see the light of day if those authors couldn't self-re-publish them.
There are two main ways I buy books: 1. Someone tells me about a great book they read. 2. I find it on the book store shelf. Both apply equally well to self-published as trade-published books, except the book store shelf is more likely to be Amazon recommendations and also-boughts. Uh, no. They're not. How much marketing do you think they're putting into a book by Joe Newby for which they're only willing to pay a $1,000 advance? Where are the newspaper ads, the billboards, the TV spots? They're not there. The vast majority of new books, whether self-published or trade-published, will get no significant marketing toward readers. Trade publishers may market them somewhat toward book stores, but self-published writers can just upload their ebook to Amazon and co and it will be on the digital shelf within a day or two. Now, as I said, if a publisher is willing to put a huge push behind the book like they did with something like Twilight, you're sorted. But almost no books get that treatment. Professional editors rejected Harry Potter several times, before one took the unprecedented step of asking a kid what they thought of it. If they couldn't spot the biggest thing in publishing at that time, how are they going to know whether Joe Newby's book is any good?
Except publishers haven't been serving most of those genres. For example, last time I was in our local book store (must be a year or so back now) the 'Horror' section almost exclusively consisted of 'Steve Jobs, Vampire Hunter' novels and Twilight ripoffs. The SF section was largely military 'Nuke The Aliens' stories, or Trots writing 'In The Future, There Will Be Commies'. If I wanted something else, I couldn't buy it, because the 'professionals' wouldn't let me. Or I could go to Amazon and find thousands of self-published novels in both genres which were actually the kind of story I might want to read. Similarly, in non-fiction, there are a ton of interesting self-published memoirs which no trade publisher would have published because they weren't exciting enough, but which I found interesting and entertaining as a self-published book.
How many billboards and TV spots can the self-published author afford to buy? I'm not saying that the publishers are going to put that much money into a new author's book. I'm saying that they are putting that much money into marketing books, and an inexperienced voice is going to have a very hard time shouting over that marketing. But the publishers can get that new author's books on some shelves, and the publisher's name offers some assurance of a readable book. That doesn't sound big and glamorous, but it's likely to be more effective than a blog and a lot of tweeting. No, it sounds like your incredibly badly-stocked local bookstore wouldn't let you.
It's an interesting issue, for sure. Of course, in the best of all possible worlds, I would love for a traditional publisher to take me on, market my books, etc. However, the incredible hee-haw and palaver I would need to go through to get one to even LOOK at my stuff just isn't worth it to me. I'm going to be 65 years old next month. I feel my remaining time on earth will be better spent actually writing. I don't plan to make writing my 'career,' nor do I care if thousands of people read my stuff. I would just like to tell my stories and have them out there for people to read if they want to. I have investigated traditional publishers to see which one I might fit. And guess what? None. Nobody is looking for what I have written. This is not because there is something wrong with my story, or the way it's written, but simply because it's not fashionable. It would be very difficult for me to come up with other books 'like' what publishers and agents currently handle. And that's the kind of 'research' you need to do to find a specific agent to send a query letter to. My story isn't really like any other I know of. Why? Well, because I like to think it's original. (Thirty years ago, when books like Snowblind Moon were on the go, I'd have been more confident that at least the subject matter would be something they've published before.) If I did find an agent who MIGHT consider the subject matter, then way-hey—my book is too long for a first-time author. Way too long. They haven't read the story and think it goes on too long, or discovered chapters that should be cut to make the story flow better, or anything like that. It's just the word count. Nope, too long. I tell them my word count, and I'll be chucked into the reject pile immediately. I can't be bothered, quite frankly. I'm convinced that with a bit more tweaking my book is good enough to BE published—and many of my beta readers are urging me to do so—but it's just not fashionable right now. Rather than spend the final allotment of my fourscore years and ten chasing agents who chase publishers who don't want to even look at what I've written, or insist on me hacking the life out of my story to fit their arbitrary requirements, I'd rather just self-publish and make myself and a few other people happy. Self-publishing is not the way to make a million, unless you are incredibly lucky. But it is a way to get your writing 'out there,' and it's a way to keep your story intact and market it the way you want. How much work you want to do in promoting it is entirely up to you. So is the quality of your writing. You can start by informing friends, family and acquaintances, work colleagues and other contacts that it's out there. If they like it, they'll tell their friends. If they don't, well ...that's the breaks, and the risk you take.
Not many, obviously. But, again, publishers only do that for the most popular books. As I said, if they offer you that, go for it. But odds are extremely high that they won't. If you really want to pursue trade publishing, I'd say there are probably three possible results: 1. They reject it. Self-publish it, because you have no other choice. 2. They offer a small advance. Say 'thanks', and self-publish it, because they clearly think it will sell but aren't going to push it at all. 3. They offer a big advance. Say 'thanks very much', and go for it, because they're clearly going to push the book. But, remember that, if you end up self-publishing, you've probably lost a couple of years' income from that book while you've been sending it out to collect rejection letters. Most readers couldn't even name the publisher of the last novel they read, unless it's one of the few associated with a specific genre, like the big romance publishers, or maybe Tor or Baen in SF. So where were the publishers hiding all the original horror novels while they pumped out Twilight and Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter ripoffs?
Remembering the name of the publisher isn't what matters to the mass audience. What matters is that a publisher published it. The mass audience will just assume it's at least fairly well written since a publisher thought it was worthy of being published. Whether it is actually well written is immaterial to the mass audience's perception on the matter.
I'm a registered publisher in Canada, so all my books are published by a publisher. It's just that, so far, I've only published books by me. I may well publish books by other people at some point, though that would really just mean giving them ISBNs and formatting their books for them.
I'm not familiar with what entails becoming a registered publisher, but I would say what matters to a mass audience would be a publishing company and whether it looks legitimate. So if it's self-published by a registered publisher, it wouldn't matter. If it's a small-time local publishing company, I guess it would depend on if it sounds/looks legitimate. This is just how I think a mass audience would think. I may be wrong, and others may disagree.
Sure, you do. You can keep polishing it and keep trying. One rejection is hardly definitive. But it will nevertheless sell far more copies from a publisher than self-published. I can respect "I just want to get it out there" arguments for self-publishing, as long as the person making the argument knows the pros and cons. But arguments about self-publishing making decent money don't make any sense to me. In ten years, maybe even five years, self-publishing may be a viable moneymaking outlet for books where the writing is of publication quality. I don't see it happening right now. I have more than once Googled a publisher to see if they appear to be professionals or a self-publishing business name. I only do that after I get the amateur vibe (from the book or the Amazon page for the book), but so far that amateur vibe and the tiny houses have coincided, and when there's a sample, I generally move on after reading it. Are you telling me that if you search Amazon, Powells, etc., you truly can't find any horror novels that aren't self-published and aren't essentially movie scripts?
One of the problems with self-publishing, at least on Kindle, is that you have to have faith that Amazon will continue to market your book, and that it will be easily available to anybody who has a Kindle. Or that they aren't going to suddenly move goalposts as to who owns the rights, or any other thing you assume (at the moment) is true. In other words, these are huge corporations at work, and who knows what the future holds? That is something that should be taken into account as well. However, I'm still going to risk it. For me I reckon this is the only realistic way for me to publish my novel. As some of the other people on this thread have mentioned, traditional publishers don't always get it right either. Many are the stories of famous writers and popular books getting passed over by umpteen publishers until one of them finally takes a chance. The amount of time, effort and gambling that goes into this palaver is not appealing at all, at least not for a writer who isn't as young as they used to be. What I'd like to see is publishers and agents being far less rigid regarding their initial requirements for submission. If I were an agent, I'd be much more inclined to say 'send me the first 50 pages of your story,' full-stop. Never mind all the query letter palaver, and all the requirements of length, content, etc. Just send me the first fifty pages of your story. (Unreturnable. If I reject it, I will bin it. You will get notification that your MS has been seen and rejected, but that will be the end of it.) If an agent discovers the first couple of lines are badly written and badly spelled, then they'll dump the MS. If the first few paragraphs indicate the prose is clunky, or the first few pages contain both characters and plot that have been done to death, they'll dump the MS. If they continue to read to the end of the 50 pages and remain interested, then they will ask for more. And before people start screaming about how busy agents are, then I ask how much time gets wasted by wading through huge piles of query letters, which may not be written by the authors themselves, or may not match what the story actually contains? Or, conversely, how many good books get rejected because the query letter is easy to dismiss? Of course if I were an agent I'd make it clear what KIND of book I represent if I only deal in genre work—I represent science fiction authors only, and it doesn't matter how good your book is, if it's not science fiction I will reject it. But beyond that, I'd leave it up to the author's actual work to intrigue me, to stand out from the wad of mediocre stuff, and to make me WANT to represent this author. So much of modern publishing has become an assembly line. The Next Big Thing resembles the Last Big Thing, and the key to success is repetition of the formula. I keep comparing it to the X Factor. New people with a new sense of style do not get very far in this environment, and yet it's come to dominate how we look at popular music. While a lucky person may make it 'big,' the bigness doesn't usually last very long, and is ultimately not very satisfying. The musicians and artists who carve their own path are the ones we will remember, and the ones whose careers are likely to last longer than one or two 'hits.' I'd like to think it's the same with authors. I'd love to be an agent who says: send me something I've never read before. Send me something unlike anything else I've ever represented. Surprise me.
This is, yep, one of the situations that makes me wish that self-publishing were a better moneymaking vehicle. For books that for reasons other than quality are not "publishable"--reasons like fashion, length, etc.--self-publishing seems like it should be a dandy way to give the book a chance. And if the chance that you want most is the chance of getting readers, rather than making money, then it's that much closer to making sense.
sorry, but that's just nonsense... first of all, you can't possibly know what a publisher will do with each book that's accepted... nowadays being offered an advance right out of the box isn't a given... many reputable publishers who DO actively push their author's books offer only a small advance--or don't offer any advance--to new and unknown authors... it's too much of a financial risk for small presses and even some of the biggies don't offer advances to unproven new writers...
