Banned Books

Discussion in 'Discussion of Published Works' started by Annûniel, Sep 11, 2010.

  1. makdadsb

    makdadsb New Member

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    I think part of the disagreement here is that we may be defining "banned books" differently. I think that most of us hear that phrase and picture big brother or some radical church group telling the whole world what not to read because they know what is best for us. Make no mistake, I completely disagree with that.

    Obviousely, we have some very exceptional people here on this website, and no doubt with some exceptional children (I read some classics when I was young, but not THAT young :) ). However, I am looking at my 7 year old right now who is smart and well rounded and happy - and maybe it makes me a bad parent to want to shield him from racism and hatred and genocide and sexuality for a few more years - but that is who I am I guess. I suppose we will have to agree to disagree then. :)
     
  2. Islander

    Islander Contributor Contributor

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    We are victims of a huge amount of illogical fears and suspicions every day. Against pedophiles. Against racists. Against terrorists. Against atheists. Against born-again christians. Against homosexuals. Against homophobes. Which groups we are encouraged to harden our hearts against depends on where we are raised. Becoming a racist just means adding another item to the list, and I don't think it has a noticeable impact on people's personalities or everyday lives.

    At the extreme end, nazi leaders seemed perfectly able to handle the contradiction of sending people to the gas chambers during the day and being normal family men during the evenings. They didn't need to harden their hearts that much, since they didn't view jews or homosexuals as real people.

    I don't think reading the wrong literature will change a person much in this regard. If there are examples of loving relationships around him when he grows up, he will learn about them, and if they really are better for him, having read the wrong books won't stop him from having them.

    More specifically, pornography for men is usually pretty bad and depicts sex as a mechanical, emotionless endeavour. But as long as a person sees sex in other contexts he won't believe pornography's image, and if he sees loving relationships, he won't believe relationships are only about sex.

    In other words, I believe the absence of good experiences are much more likely to stunt a child's development, than the presence of bad ones.

    Censoring sexual depictions may do more damage than good for this reason. If there are no positive depictions of sexuality in mainstream media, the only learning opportunities will be provided by the bad ones provided undergorund. And people soak up learning opportunities like sponges, because, like it or not, sexuality is an important part of most people's lives.


    Also, let's look at the problem from the other end. What kinds of problems plague kids in real life?

    * Underachievement in school
    * Social awkwardness
    * Poverty
    * Social stigma, due to ethnicity, poverty or other
    * Unstable family circumstances
    * Abuse
    * Drugs
    * Conflicting social pressures, for example, from religion and society in general

    I don't think any real-life problems of kids can be connected to bad literature.
     
  3. Elgaisma

    Elgaisma Contributor Contributor

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    I think the point is what you choose to ban your children reading is upto you - however that decision should not stamp on my decisions taken as a parent.

    If the book is banned instead of just not available in one location then decisions are taken out of my hands. In every school year a number of students will be reading classics from a young age.
     
  4. Islander

    Islander Contributor Contributor

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    That is the point from a liberal rights perspective, Elgaisma.

    My point is a different one: That bad literature and movies, not even extremely bad ones, will affect children much.
    For example, a child who accidentally sees a really disgusting depiction of sexual sadism, will learn that such things exist, just as war, abuse and starving children exist, and will then go on with his/her life. They will only be damaged if they are lead to believe that it is normal, or that they will be unwillingly exposed to it.
     
  5. Elgaisma

    Elgaisma Contributor Contributor

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    I entirely agree with that I actually think hiding it from children is more damaging in long run - if they see it as contraband or hidden it becomes more attractive. Like Mallory said if a child can't come to an adult source knowing they will receive answers to their questions that is the parents neglect that causes the problem. If you hide it from them they assume it is something they can't speak to you about. But I also believe I shouldn't stamp on another parents decision. For me tolerance is accepting the viewpoint I don't agree with or like.

    I am well aware if my book ever got published it has even more points against it than Harry Potter.
     
  6. Islander

    Islander Contributor Contributor

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    I don't think most children are damaged that much by censorship, either. For example, in a modern society it's virtually impossible to keep a child from learning about sex. Only certain closed religious groups can keep the knowledge from them. Today, we mainly try to censor to infuse our children with the right values, like tolerance.

    (50 or 100 years ago was another matter - then there were actually girls who had their first period without knowing what it was.)
     
  7. Elgaisma

    Elgaisma Contributor Contributor

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    Even then though boys sneaked porn - there were smutty postcards etc Playboy can be found in primary school bags lol sure that hasn't changed since I was at school - someone knows about Dad's stash. Difference is girls now have access to the same things.

    I was the one that took the book in lol kids do that it's like wow look what I found - eww that is what they do. I'll never do that it's disgusting.
     
  8. art

    art Contributor Contributor

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    Islander

    Not saying books are more influential than many other factors. Would be strange to think so. Yet, the existence of more potent influences does not obviate the existence of lesser influences.

    Simply to say that to deny that books can do harm - however small - is to deny that they can do good. And, of course, the existence of a free society where books are not banned and no ideas are proscribed is, in itself, a safeguard that limits the impact of noxious ideas.
     
  9. Elgaisma

    Elgaisma Contributor Contributor

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    OK I see Islander's point as being and could be wrong but that the book doesn't do anything in isolation it is a collection of circumstances the book is not responsible for that can cause problems.

    If the child reading Nietsche and Mein Kampf, had other outlets, a good relationship with parents etc It does no harm. If anything broadens their mind and ideas. A child who is isolated cannot talk it out with an adult or mentor and it becomes obsessive then it can be a problem but the book didn't isolate the child and deprive them of an outlet. I loved the first game of Grand Theft Auto to me it was nothing but fun - same with my friends. However I watched a nine year old who heroworshipped an older brother in prison for bank robbery and his attitude playing it was wrong he wanted to emulate it and be it - but it was his life, his parents and his brother that created that situation not the game.

    I am personally deeply affected by books I laugh, cry, consider it a time away from this world. I was one of the few on a thread here that felt a book could mend a broken heart. However it is my decision to allow that to happen. Technically the book doesn't do it I do - to achieve the maximum impact of a book I need to create peace and quiet, have uninterrupted time to myself. The enviroment around me is just as important to how I receive any story.

    The more open a society and the less that is 'banned' the less damage these materials have.
     
  10. w176

    w176 Contributor Contributor

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    Well. No.

    50 or 100 years ago, and it truer even further back, worldwide, most of all people lived in small households with large families. Children back them knew what adults did when they wanted to be alone.

    And both en rural and urban areas people kept animals in another way. Even if yourself didn't have animals you know people who knew and you would growing up see animals mating.

    Kids knew that adults did the same thing that the dogs, sheep, horses, cows hedgehogs and birds did. And this knowledge didn't traumatize the children.

    The myth of children's sexual ignorance is largely just a myth, the norm throughout human history is that children knew about sex from an early age (unless you look at some upperclass families in certain eras in certain cultures).
     
  11. Islander

    Islander Contributor Contributor

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    I don't think books do much good in themselves either. Just reading a book with the proper ideas or values won't infuse a kid with them.

    Something like that. Books primarily teach us about possible outlets. Someone who needs an outlet for their hatred, AND has never heard of nazism, may be affected by reading Mein Kampf. But if he has already heard about nazism from other sources, I don't think reading Mein Kampf is likely to do much difference. I don't think books have the power to indoctrinate, as long as they are not pushed upon us in great numbers or with the force of authority.
     
  12. Logical Deduction

    Logical Deduction New Member

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    It saddens me to see so many good pieces of literature banned; it would be understandable if said works were not meant for the eyes of school children to begin with, but the banning of some of those titles really does make my jaw drop.
     
  13. throughthepeephole

    throughthepeephole New Member

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    Occasionally book banning is a good thing, re. The Twilight Saga. I believe that was banned in some British schools because the phenomenon got completely out of hand, kids were fighting over the books, getting too immersed in 'vampire culture' as they called it...

    ...I'm sure it was for the best that the books were removed :D
     
  14. Mallory

    Mallory Contributor Contributor

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    As much as I hate Twilight because of Bella's weak, un-feminist behavior, I'd never be in favor of forbidding kids from reading if they want to. I'd tell my daughter "Don't be like Bella," but I'd never tell her "You can't read Twilight because I don't like Bella" (Or any other book)

    As for the fighting thing you described, I think the school ought to curtail the fighting, not try to eliminate every root of it. Guys fight over girls. Does that mean schools should ban dating among students to stop boys from fighting over girls? I think not.

    (And I realize you were being lighthearted about the banning Twilight thing lol.)
     
  15. Paki-Writing

    Paki-Writing New Member

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    Banning books

    I went to a public highschool. Some of the books you mentioned was mandatory reading. How can it both be banned and mandatory to read?

    I personally believe in banning books for little kids. Their considered children for a reason. They aren't allowed to vote, drive, or even be home alone. You can't just let a 9-year-old have access to any book.

    With that said, I don't see how the banning is actually occurring given that some of those books I was made to read and write about.
     
  16. hiddennovelist

    hiddennovelist Contributor Contributor

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    ^A book may be banned in one place and allowed somewhere else. Or banned now while previously allowed.
     
  17. Paki-Writing

    Paki-Writing New Member

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    People in highschool are forced to read some of those books today. I know people that wish those books were banned so their English teachers didn't stuff it down their throats.

    It might be banned some places. I just find it very hard to believe.
     
  18. hiddennovelist

    hiddennovelist Contributor Contributor

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    Shrug. Find it hard to believe all you want, that doesn't really change the fact that a book being banned in one place doesn't mean it has to be banned everywhere...
     
  19. Cornflower

    Cornflower Member

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    I know a book that talks about banning books (interesting enough-they mention a movie that's a banned book on the list the OP had on the first page Farinhiet 451)-the book's called "The Day They Came to Arrest the Book" and the said "problem" book was The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn because it had the world "nigger" in the book (and non-feminists women).

    I disagree with banning books and my school board almost banned HP but a huge fight won it not being banned.

    I mean banning "To Kill a Mocking Bird" would teach a good reason to kids. So would Fahrenheit 451.

    I know a book that's called "Are You There God? Its me Marget since its banned for 2 reasons: 1)first period 2)doubting God is real

    A book that had a picture of Little Red Riding Hood was banned because she had alcoholic in a basket in the picture.
     
  20. zaphod

    zaphod Member

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    In other words, the most commonly banned books are generic 12th grade English reading assignment choices. Part of me thinks there is a conspiracy afoot similar the to the way that parental advisory warnings on music increased sales, where maybe if a book is banned it will seem cooler for teens to read...

    Though I think the real explanation is simpler than that. The books that generate the most controversy are going to have to still be normal and tame enough to have gained wide exposure in the first place. When these works finally end up as candidates for school curriculum material, it guarantees that the chronically offended class will have seen them and have their predictable hissy fit.

    Of the few books that are so truly incendiary, perhaps promoting or acting as a manual for illegal activities, most are generally obscure and would never be noticed enough to end up on a "banned books" list. Never mind such content is available on the internet, and you'd have to be actively seeking it out.

    When I hear "banned books list" I immediately think of a bunch of jesus freaks like the ones who tossed a molotov cocktail into the night book return at my town's library and burned it to the ground. Oh, and I bet you they had their copy of the Anarchist's Cookbook and the Turner Diaries :rolleyes:
     

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