Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Herbert H Hebert
    Offline

    Herbert H Hebert Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Many places around the world

    Being nice to the mentally disabled.

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Herbert H Hebert, Feb 20, 2014.

    Pro: They really have it hard in life, and people are always so mean to them.
    Con: Yes, and it's their own damn fault.
    Pro: No, it's not! They didn't ask to be born that way!
    Con: It's a fault, and it's theirs. That makes it, by definition, their fault.
    Pro: But don't you feel sorry for them?
    Con: Supposing I do? What of it?
    Pro: Doesn't that make you want to be nice to them?
    Con: It makes me want to be no meaner to them than absolutely necessary. Will you settle for that?
    Pro: Why is it necessary to be mean to them at all?
    Con: Because sometimes nothing else works with them.

    Discuss.
     
  2. thirdwind
    Offline

    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    7,349
    Likes Received:
    2,891
    Location:
    Boston
    I try to be nice to everyone, which includes the mentally disabled. I don't see why anyone would be mean to them, though I've heard of mentally disabled people being bullied.

    So what exactly do you mean by being mean to them? Calling them names? Bullying them?
     
  3. We Are Cartographers
    Offline

    We Are Cartographers Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2009
    Messages:
    206
    Likes Received:
    213
    What the actual fuck?
     
  4. Wreybies
    Offline

    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    18,834
    Likes Received:
    10,013
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    Yeah, could the OP please clarify. Also, are you speaking of people with cognitive disorders, behavioral disorders, mood disorders, all, some....?

    I don't see much debate stemming from this topic as I cannot see someone openly admitting to, much less supporting an argument for the mistreatment of a disabled person.
     
  5. Thomas Kitchen
    Offline

    Thomas Kitchen Proofreader in the Making Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,258
    Likes Received:
    422
    Location:
    I'm Welsh - and proud!
    Being a Christian, I'm going to have to go back to the Bible, because that's where all my help comes from.

    Mark 12:29-31 says, "Jesus replied, “The most important commandment is this: ‘Listen, O Israel! The Lord our God is the one and only Lord. And you must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength.’ The second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ No other commandment is greater than these."

    Ephesians 4:31-32 says, "Get rid of all bitterness, rage, anger, harsh words, and slander, as well as all types of evil behavior. Instead, be kind to each other, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God through Christ has forgiven you."

    Mental disorders and disabilities are a result of sin. We are all sinful, so if we were to be harsh and unkind to disabled people, we should also be harsh and unkind to ourselves. But God has not done that: he has forgiven us, and we only have to come to him to received his saving power. If God - someone who is perfect and just and holy - can love us and be kind to us, why can we not do the same to others? Christians believe that we should follow Jesus' example. (Sorry if this seemed like preaching - I assure you I wasn't trying for it to be. It was just so I could get my point across for this discussion. And if anybody's interested, the bible verses are taken from the New Living Translation/NLT)

    But from a non-Christian point of view, I still believe we should not be unkind to these sorts of people. What of people who are socially inept, socially awkward, lack common sense, are simply quirky, are depressed or bipolar? Surely these people have 'something wrong with their brain' too, if you went down that road? Even if someone was to say it was their fault that they were like that, we should not say it. We have our own problems and demons to tackle which people do not comment on or insult/hurt us with, so why point out somebody else's? From a non-biblical point of view, I stand by this: "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."
     
    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh and JJ_Maxx like this.
  6. chicagoliz
    Offline

    chicagoliz Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,295
    Likes Received:
    815
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I opened this thread because I was puzzled as well. Are there really people clamoring for people to be mean to certain people?
     
    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh likes this.
  7. jazzabel
    Offline

    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    4,273
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    All I have to say is, why would anyone be talking to the jerk from the OP's example? This person not only has no intellectual or emotional capacity to comprehend the nature of intellectual disability, with all it's difficulties and challenges, and is simply exercising their slightly higher intellectual 'prowess' to bully those he perceives as weaker than him. But who cares about jerks anyway, as if there's a shortage of them in the world. However, if someone is mean (bullying) in a professional capacity (teacher, doctor, boss etc) to any disabled person, simply because they are disabled, well, there are laws about that, and breaking them will cost them money. Sadly, with jerks, it's the only thing that works. But, whatever works.

    ps. Mental disability is NOT in ANY WAY a result of 'sin'. It's genetic, or caused by various traumatic influences in the womb or even a result of illnesses in childhood. Like all other conditions, it's a result of natural processes. It can affect anyone, any time, it's that indiscriminate. To claim it is a result of a 'sin' is the same as me claiming it's a result of the influence of a Purple Monkey Dishwasher or a blessing from a Dark Lord Cthulhu. It's just as impossible to verify, therefore, it has equal validity. Also, this particular belief (or a wilful delusion, in this day and age) has given rise to various abuses of people that are deemed 'different'. For example, someone can claim/believe they are less of a 'sinner' (whatever that means since animals menstruate too and they did not steal no apples) than a baby with cerebral palsy, just because they aren't afflicted by the same condition. It's extremely important to educate children about science and facts, in order to prevent this kind of senseless discrimination arising from religious texts, that permit anything from incest, rape, infanticide, genocide and the rest of the tragedies human race has been known to perpetrate.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh likes this.
  8. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    501
    Seeing two of my sisters are mentally handicapped, I've spent a lot of time around people with special needs, especially earlier in my life where I spent a lot of time with the Special Olympics. (A great thing, by the way.) I will say this, you can make their day simply by being nice to them. A lot of them are stunted so they are similar to young children in their mentality. They just want to be normal. They just want you to come up to them and say, 'Hey man, what's up, how are you doing?' It's not hard. Once you learn how to get past the disabling border, you can communicate with them on their level.

    Also, there's no reason ever to be mean to them in any way unless you're just a jerk and you're mean to everyone. But if any dude was mean to my sister, they should expect my pacifist nature to be temporarily suspended.

    You're both right, actually. He's not saying that being mentally disabled is a result of their parents sin, or their sin, but the Original Sin that caused all the suffering in the world and continues to afflict humanity today. The reason for cancer, mental illness, broken bones, etc... is from the Original Sin. That's what him and I believe, but I just wanted to clarify that we agree it's genetic, but the underlying cause is as old as humanity itself.
     
    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh likes this.
  9. Thomas Kitchen
    Offline

    Thomas Kitchen Proofreader in the Making Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,258
    Likes Received:
    422
    Location:
    I'm Welsh - and proud!
    Cheers. I didn't really explain that well, did I?
     
    JJ_Maxx likes this.
  10. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    501
    I knew what you were saying. ;)
     
    Thomas Kitchen likes this.
  11. Cogito
    Offline

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    35,935
    Likes Received:
    2,043
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    I'm waiting to see the proponent of handicapped abuse to step up to the plate.

    User name "Piñata"?
     
    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh likes this.
  12. Herbert H Hebert
    Offline

    Herbert H Hebert Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Many places around the world
    I don't define the term. Others do.

    Suppose you're trying to have am important conversation on an urgent matter, and a [insert current spot on the euphemism treadmill here] keeps interrupting to ask how was your day, over and over and over again. You ask him politely to stop interrupting. He just doesn't get it. You tell him firmly, knock it off! He still doesn't get it. You yell at him to shut the hell up. It just doesn't register. You shove him. He gets a look on his face like he's starting to think. But then he starts up again. You smack him, and he runs away crying.

    Great. Now you can finally get on with the matter at hand. Except there's a problem. Everyone around is mad at you for being such a meanie.

    I've got another example -- from real life -- involving a [current euphemism] sexually molesting a little girl, but let's talk about this one first. I want to see where people here draw the line.
     
  13. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    501
    That's awful. Who would do such a thing, let alone admit or do it in front of people? Wow.
     
    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh and Wreybies like this.
  14. Wreybies
    Offline

    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    18,834
    Likes Received:
    10,013
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    I would actually be dialing the police.
     
  15. JJ_Maxx
    Offline

    JJ_Maxx Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    501
    ...actually, if it was a mentally disabled person, you should call social services and yes, I would be calling too.
     
    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh likes this.
  16. Wreybies
    Offline

    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    18,834
    Likes Received:
    10,013
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    Seriously, the cops. Just thinking about this scenario is pissing me off.
     
  17. Steerpike
    Offline

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,051
    Likes Received:
    5,255
    Location:
    California, US
    I'm picturing the OP:

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh
    Offline

    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    743
    Location:
    Music Room #3
    I would be calling as well. Also, probably, yelling the guy who smacked the mentally disabled person.
     
  19. Lewdog
    Offline

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,530
    Likes Received:
    2,825
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY
    Yeah a swift kick in my nut sack helps me get through the day. Medication just doesn't help me the way it used to. Glad you brought this up so I could get this off my chest. :rolleyes:
     
  20. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh
    Offline

    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    2,319
    Likes Received:
    743
    Location:
    Music Room #3
    I love your sarcasm.
     
    Lewdog likes this.
  21. ChickenFreak
    Offline

    ChickenFreak Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    8,916
    Likes Received:
    5,441
    Mad at you? They're beyond mad at you; they're calling to have you arrested for assault and battery. And rightfully so.
     
    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh and JJ_Maxx like this.
  22. Herbert H Hebert
    Offline

    Herbert H Hebert Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Many places around the world
    There's nothing to clarify, because there's no meaningful distinction. It's all behavioral. The behavior is the whole problem.
     
  23. Herbert H Hebert
    Offline

    Herbert H Hebert Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Many places around the world
    All right everyone, time to take it up a notch. The following is not a hypothetical example. It actually happened:

    Say you've got an eight year old daughter. There's a mentally disabled person in the neighborhood. He's a sweet, friendly guy. Everybody likes him. But he's got urges, same as everyone else. He decides he wants a girlfriend. But nobody his age wants to be his girlfriend, because women can be small minded about this sort of thing. But he finds he can really talk to your daughter. They're both at the same level. They hang out. A lot.

    His parents think it's cute. Your daughter thinks it's nice. You, you're not so sure. You tell him to lay off. He doesn't seem to understand. You yell at him and chase him off your property. Now everybody is calling you a big meanie. They tell you to stop being mean to the poor lonely guy or they'll call the cops on you, you awful, awful man. You don't want to go to jail, so...

    One day your daughter comes in crying, clothes torn, bleeding from between the legs. Her boyfriend decided to consummate the relationship. Question: do you have any regrets? What do you wish you had done instead?

    Followup question: how do feel toward all those neighbors who pressured you to be nice to the disabled person?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2014
  24. ChickenFreak
    Offline

    ChickenFreak Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    8,916
    Likes Received:
    5,441
    This isn't about mentally disabled people, it's about a criminal who happened to be mentally disabled. Those are separate issues. Plenty of predators seem nice and charming; that's how they succeed at being predators. It would have been perfectly appropriate to call the police when this person trespassed and insisted on harassing a child--even if the child didn't object, the parent has the right to object. If the police refused to respond, that's a problem. But this isn't about the mentally disabled, it's about one criminal.
     
  25. Herbert H Hebert
    Offline

    Herbert H Hebert Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Many places around the world
    False distinction. This guy had no idea what he was doing. He did not possess what lawyers call the mens rea. From the law's point of view, he was not a criminal. They didn't put him in jail. They put him in a mental hospital, and then a group home.

    I'm not speculating here. I knew him. He had no ill intention toward anyone. There wasn't a mean bone in his body. He simply wasn't capable of grasping that what he was doing was a bad idea.

    By the way, how would you like if people called you a big meanie for calling a disabled man a criminal? That's way worse than anything I ever called a disabled man.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page